KevWe have two Council. I don't see Fritzy online, and I'm not sure if I have MM in my roster.
KevIf I have, he's not online :)
MattJHe says he's having connectivity issues
MattJGive him a sec.
KevFritzy or MM?
MattJMM
linuxwolfhas joined
MattJ*applause*
linuxwolffinally
linuxwolfjeebus
KevYay, quorum!
KevNot that we need it without anything to vote on.
MattJHeh
linuxwolfI need for fire my sysadmin
linuxwolfoh wait…that's me
KevRalph's online, but not responsive.
KevFritzy's not.
linuxwolfwell, quorum at least makes it feel official (-:
MattJHmm, cisco.com doesn't seem to like this server
linuxwolfok…I'll let some folks here know, MattJ
MattJDec 01 16:06:29 s2sin280e330 info Session closed by remote with error: undefined-condition
Dec 01 16:06:29 s2sin280e330 info s2s disconnected: cisco.com->muc.xmpp.org (undefined-condition)
Kev(hopefully stpeter will reappear at some point, as two of the three items are his)
linuxwolfnone from me
linuxwolfheh
linuxwolfhe's WFH, so I can't utilize POKE
KevSo let's jump to the "Our job" item and come back later for Peter's items.
linuxwolf+1
MattJ++
KevSo, in among us cancelling week after week because we had nothing to vote on, Joe suggested maybe Council's job was to make sure we had activity that needed attention.
KevDiscuss.
linuxwolfwell, first...
linuxwolfend of year is difficult to get anything really done (-:
KevYes, that much is true.
stpetergreetings
linuxwolfthat's historical
KevEvening Peter.
ralphmhas joined
stpetersorry, got the times wrong
linuxwolf(-:
linuxwolfpesky time changes
linuxwolfanyhow
KevWe also have a different situation from previous years - last year we started being much less forgiving with voting periods, and as such lost the backlog of voting items that we've usually acquired over previous years.
ralphmwaves
linuxwolfI think we should be taking a more (pro) active role
KevSo the need to have a meeting to go over the same items again and have people not vote again has ended.
KevEvening Ralph.
linuxwolftrue
linuxwolfwaves to ralphm
MattJIf we should be more pro-active, more pro-active doing what exactly?
KevThat said, I'm not opposed to us considering that it's our job to be making sure XEP progress continues.
KevThe question is what the appropriate way of doing this is.
KevIf it's poking the authors of XEPs we think need work, I think this may be somewhat pointless, as that's almost always Peter.
stpeterheh
linuxwolf(-:
linuxwolfhow about we start with a roadmap (-:
MattJIn my mind the council is by nature reactive, but the individuals should be proactive (writing and implementing specs is not something the council was set up to do together as a whole)
linuxwolfset some goals for ourselves
KevWe have a Peter again, so let's do that, yes.
stpeterspeaking of which, as soon as I'm done with these RFC revisions (speaking of pesky!), you'll experience a flood of XEP updates
linuxwolf(-:
KevCouncil discussing a roadmap is another thing I think's odd - we just vote on whatever people give us.
ralphmthere are some areas for which people asking for specs for a number of summits
KevBut anyway, we can discuss what it is that we'd like for people to give us to vote on :)
linuxwolfwe've had roadmaps in the past
KevWe have.
KevI think they're largely stpeter maps, rather than Council maps, though :)
stpeterhowever, we might want to recruit people to take over maintainership of various specs -- e.g., microblogging
linuxwolffile transfer v2, jingle, etc
KevAnyway, I'm not proposing not having one :)
MattJExactly who's in charge here? :)
ralphmI think a roadmap is a fine idea actually
KevSo.
ralphmwe've all said what we think needs to be done in our applications
KevRoad map items.
stpeterKev: I think the members discussion about roadmap items was good, perhaps we need to poke people to take ownership of various specs
linuxwolf+1
KevI'm just looking up the member discussion, hang on.
Kevhttp://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Roadmap
ralphmso everything termed technical is our domain
linuxwolfmore or less
KevNot really Ralph, some is the WG's.
ralphmexcept the ca stuff
ralphmwell, yes
MattJ"and establish the JSF" <-- "oops"? :)
linuxwolfwell, this list looks a bit dated…sort of (-:
linuxwolfthe timeless goals
stpeterI last posted about this on October 29 http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2010-October/006040.html
KevI'd see getting file transfer sorted as a reasonable overarching theme for this term.
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stpeterKev: interop testing at FOSDEM might be good
linuxwolf/nod
KevIt might.
KevAlthough it's a little hard to do that.
KevGiven that FOSDEM is likely to be a fairly hospitable network.
KevWhere we know that basically nothing interops with f/t on the Internet :)
ralphmwhy?
ralphmwe can set up a local test bed?
KevWe can set up a suitably inhospitable network, if we try.
KevThe other thing that really desperately needs love is -45
KevIf this year sees us do nothing except getting file transfer working and MUC cleaned up, it wouldn't be a bad thing, I think.
MattJand 198 :)
MattJand archiving
KevWell, 198 *does* work :)
linuxwolfheh
linuxwolf198 works for those that have implemented it, as far as I can tell
MattJIt needs some spec changes, but that's on stpeter's todo already
stpeterKev: I have a big pile of MUC edits to key in
stpeterMattJ: 198 needs changes?
ralphmdoes that include work on what joe and I termed 'hats'?
KevI don't think hats belong in -45.
stpeteragreed on that!
linuxwolfstpeter: I think there were some minor nits for 198
KevNot that I think they don't belong anywhere, but not 45.
linuxwolfI'll try to find them
MattJstpeter, it doesn't?
ralphmI know there isn't a spec for it yet, but it would maybe remove stuff from 45
stpeterlinuxwolf: ok
MattJstpeter, you did say a while back it was on your todo :)
MattJstpeter, Dave and I have both posted feedback to the list that needs incorporating - I think Dave's was even in patch form :)
stpeterI see a two-phase approach on MUC (or in parallel) -- clean up 45 and work on hats etc.
KevMattJ: You and I should sort out what else needs doing with archiving, and ask those nice folks on Council to approve a bunch of new XEPs.
MattJKev, agreed
KevI see hats as GC3.
linuxwolf/nod
ralphmdoes it include removal of status codes in favour of elements (like we did with errors in xmpp)
ralphm?
KevI see that as GC3 too :)
stpeterhmm
stpeterperhaps
linuxwolfmoving away from status codes is a big change
KevAnything that's going to require every single implementation of xep-0045 to be modified doesn't belong in 45 at this point.
linuxwolfnot that I'm in favor of status codes, mind you...
KevNo, quite.
ralphmjust assessing the scope
stpeterwe had talked about status elements as an extension, so strictly speaking it would not be in 45 anyway
ralphmhah, so it would build on 45
ralphmas if it is not big enough already :-)
stpeterright
stpeter:P
linuxwolf"too big to fail(off)"
Kevralphm: My opinion of scope for 45 changes is stuff that's largely backwards compatible and cleans up the ambiguities. Of which there are plenty.
MattJ+1
stpeterKev: yes I think that's right
MattJI was always against a radically new protocol, but I'm not so much anymore
KevSo, are we roughly done with the roadmap discussion?
stpeterand I think that's what my edits worked toward
stpeterye
stpeterMattJ: :)
KevRight, so
ralphmstpeter: you mentioned mobile stuff and microblogging
KevPeter wanted to discuss open issues on specs.
KevAgenda item 4!
stpeterpeople wanted a radically new protocol back in 2002, also
linuxwolf(-:
stpeterok
linuxwolfxmpp-ng
stpeterlet's see, open issues
stpeterXEP-0266 -- Jingle codecs
stpeterit would be good to finish that up
KevWhat needs doing there?
stpeterit's difficult to get consensus on that topic
stpeterI'm just raising open issues so we know what's coming :)
KevConsensus on 266 is impossible.
stpeterI'd like to find someone else to maintain the microblogging spec
linuxwolfI'm going to need to drop in a minute or two
stpeterKev: depends on how rough it is :)
stpeterok
KevMost people not disagreeing violently is going to be the best bet.
Kevstpeter: Oh good, the 'rough consensus' oxymoron :)
MattJ:)
stpeterclearly the FT stuff needs updating
stpeterperhaps we can push out new versions after interop testing at FOSDEM?
KevDoesn't sound unreasonable to me.
stpeterand same for 198 and roster versioning?
KevMy interest in interop testing is largely checking everything behaves s2s at the moment, but clients shouldn't be neglected.
linuxwolf/nod
stpeterdo we have a chatroom for the interop testing next week? just jdev?
KevWe don't, that I know of.
MattJI made the interop room on this server the other day, but didn't announce it
KevI think bear took ownership of that event, but I've not seen anything since.
KevI'll poke the iteam into action for whatever's required :)
stpeterheh ok
KevMattJ's volunteered to run the CA, I think.
MattJIndeed
stpeterwow http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Roadmap is ancient
MattJQuite
stpeterI'll update the roadmap tomorrow afternoon or Friday -- swamped through noon tomorrow
KevOther items on the horizon are Matt's and my history stuffs, the changes to other stuff around that (I'd like to update Mine to use it, although I never got a reply from Joe about that), xep-correct and similar stuffs.
KevWe've hit the limit of my meeting patience, so shall we stop there for today? I think we've discussed most things.
KevDate of next meeting.
ralphmI'd like the stuff from stpeter's mail on it
stpeteryep
KevNext Wednesday, same time.
stpeter+1 here
ralphm+1
linuxwolf+1
MattJ+1
stpeterupdates the calendar
Kev7) Any other business?
linuxwolfstpeter: grazie!
KevThanks Peter.
MattJdoesn't say anything
stpeternone here for now
linuxwolfI got nothing
KevJolly good :)
KevOk, thanks all, then.
KevI'll sort out something in way of minutes in the not too distant future.
Kevbangs the gavel.
MattJThanks
stpetercalendar updated
MattJThanks :)
linuxwolfhas left
stpeterhttp://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-council.ics is your friend :)
stpeteror http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics
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Tobiasstpeter: the automatic updating of calendars works, right?
stpeterTobias: I updated it manually :)
stpeternext time I'll let it update automatically
Tobiasthat doesn't really answer my question, does it? :)