XMPP Council - 2010-12-15

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16:01:01 linuxwolf wow, I'm early for once
16:01:31 Fritzy :)
16:01:40 linuxwolf And a Fritzy has appeared!
16:01:47 linuxwolf (-:
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16:02:38 Kev Three down.
16:05:04 Kev Matt is joining.
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16:05:28 Kev Ralph has also been poked, but not responded.
16:05:34 Kev So, shall we start?
16:05:41 Kev 1) Roll call
16:05:45 linuxwolf present
16:06:00 Fritzy present
16:06:03 MattJ waves
16:06:09 Fritzy presents!
16:06:17 Kev Righty.
16:06:20 Kev 2) Agenda bashing.
16:06:34 Fritzy nope
16:06:41 MattJ ditto
16:06:43 linuxwolf a note at the end from me
16:06:47 Kev Ok.
16:06:57 Kev 3) Interop summary.
16:07:03 Kev So, the interop event happened.
16:07:27 dwd has joined
16:07:42 Kev It started badly without much of a plan, I appointed myself 'in charge of stuff', there was a plan, it went very well.
16:07:58 MattJ +1
16:08:00 Fritzy I read the thread on it. Sounds like you made it productive.
16:08:01 Kev We learned a bit about what we need to do next time, and discussion is starting to happen about this on the interop list.
16:08:15 Fritzy any interesting results?
16:08:17 Kev There's a report on the XSF blog.
16:08:18 dwd I'd note from the floor that the interop testing done on SCRAM-SHA-1-PLUS was of quite some importance outside the XSF.
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16:08:48 Kev Fritzy: Well, at the end of the week, everyone participating was more conformant than at the start.
16:08:54 Kev Which is quite a result, relaly.
16:08:55 Kev *really
16:08:58 linuxwolf /nod
16:09:02 Fritzy sounds good to me!
16:09:11 dwd I'd also note that another interop event I've been invoved in increased its setup time to an entire week for the third event, so our spending two days on that is a *small* amount of time, relatively speaking.
16:09:31 Kev It was surprising to me that the general standard of TLS handling was so high.
16:10:03 Fritzy between servers
16:10:03 Fritzy ?
16:10:03 Kev So it does seem, largely, a deployment issue these days that s2s is often insecure.
16:10:07 Kev Yes, s2s.
16:10:10 MattJ Agreed
16:10:15 Kev The only client that did the scripted testing was Swift.
16:10:49 Kev There've been suggestions that the next interop should look at other low level stuff, with internationalisation seeming a sensible choice.
16:10:51 dwd That's not to say that was the only client involved, though - a few used parts of the test network for various things.
16:11:02 MattJ which is fine
16:11:03 Kev dwd: Yes, I'm assuming everyone can read the report.
16:11:16 Fritzy Will do.
16:11:27 dwd Kev, It's on the new-fangled web thing, I didn't know everyone had it.
16:11:45 Kev I don't think there's much more to say about it, but I think Council could consider whether it has a roll in the test plan for next time.
16:12:08 dwd (Or even a role)
16:12:11 Kev Maybe it doesn't, but it would seem to me that of the various XSF bodies, Council are the ones most likely to be thinking about interoperability requirements.
16:12:28 Fritzy that makes sense.
16:12:30 MattJ Indeed
16:12:46 dwd There was also the suggestion concerning the server and client lists and the relationship with the interops.
16:12:51 MattJ Next time I think perhaps council should draw up the tests
16:13:03 MattJ and make them known further in advance of the interop
16:13:28 Kev Yes, there was also discussion that clients and servers shouldn't be listed on xmpp.org unless they participate in the interop events, but that doesn't sound Councilish.
16:13:38 Kev MattJ: Yep.
16:13:47 Kev Righty, I think that's the interop done.
16:13:47 ralphm Kev: agreed
16:13:59 Kev linuxwolf: What did you want to add to the agenda
16:14:00 ralphm I could imagine some interopmatrix
16:14:00 Kev ?
16:14:02 dwd I certainly think that indicating on those lists which ones *did* participate seems sensible.
16:14:07 Fritzy Also, test preparation can be an open thing a week ahead of time -- something people are available to help with before testing is expected to start -- in muc and everything.
16:14:19 remko dwd: *nod* It's a plus if you do, not a bad thing if you don't
16:14:25 linuxwolf some upcoming items of work
16:14:31 Kev Go for it.
16:14:59 Kev Fritzy: Yes, this is all good. Jump on the interop list and discuss :)
16:15:10 Kev linuxwolf: ... which are?
16:15:11 linuxwolf so, we're working out some issues and their solutions regarding multiple resources
16:15:17 Kev Ah.
16:15:35 Kev http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/multiple-clients.html ?
16:15:36 linuxwolf plus a refresh of vcard
16:15:46 ralphm linuxwolf: refresh?
16:16:16 linuxwolf well, since an XML vcard specification is actually going to make it out of WG discussion, some of us feel it's time to also update (-:
16:16:20 Kev linuxwolf: I did poke Joe about some updates I wanted to do to Mine a few months back, but he never replied.
16:16:37 linuxwolf Kev: he's busy, and that brings me to the next piece
16:16:40 Kev linuxwolf: That sounds new-fangled and exciting.
16:16:42 ralphm linuxwolf: sounds nice, but any indication when?
16:17:14 linuxwolf ralphm: it's an IETF WG, so that's still unknown (-:
16:17:21 ralphm (also, does it include some way to indicate a JID?)
16:17:44 ralphm linuxwolf: it seems this is kinda pending since 2000
16:17:48 linuxwolf most of what we're doing with multiple resources is best practices, plus a bias toward message carbons
16:17:59 linuxwolf ralphm: yes, but now there's actually consensus
16:18:06 linuxwolf it's truly amazing to me (-:
16:18:30 linuxwolf I'm trying to find the people who will actual work on these specs, but it looks like most of them will be moi
16:18:30 ralphm not holding my breath C-:
16:18:30 dwd http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-vcarddav-vcardxml-06
16:18:42 linuxwolf ^^
16:18:51 Kev linuxwolf: Have you seen protoxep-multiple-clients?
16:19:14 linuxwolf Kev: yes…since you just sent it to me
16:19:14 linuxwolf (-:
16:19:15 remko dwd: that looks even more verbose than the vcard before, nice
16:19:25 dwd PSA's the responsible AD. Plus we could kick off an experimental XEP referencing the draft.
16:19:36 ralphm it seems extensible, so hooray
16:19:45 linuxwolf dwd: the XEP is started…just needs to get submitted
16:19:51 Kev linuxwolf: Ok, I was trying to solve the same problems (I think) that you're trying to solve with carbons et al (It was carbons I wanted to update, not Mine, my bad).
16:20:03 dwd remko, "It'll compress well"™
16:20:07 linuxwolf Kev: no worries…let's you and I talk more about that
16:20:15 Kev Sounds like a plan.
16:20:17 linuxwolf I think I'll be taking authorship of a couple of these
16:20:32 linuxwolf resource locking best practices, carbons, mine-ing
16:20:34 stpeter has joined
16:20:34 Kev And we'll wait to see the third vcard XEP proposal :)
16:20:39 stpeter sigh
16:20:45 stpeter got stuck in a massive traffic jam
16:20:49 linuxwolf Kev: heh…at least #3 will actually use a vCard spec
16:20:55 Fritzy stpeter: shitty
16:20:58 Kev stpeter: I'm about to, which is why I'm keen to keep Council short.
16:21:02 stpeter nod
16:21:02 linuxwolf if we're counting infobits as #2
16:21:02 MattJ stpeter, should have walked like I did :)
16:21:03 Kev At least dwd is driving this time.
16:21:09 dwd stpeter, You need to use better congestion control.
16:21:21 Kev Right, so, that's probably us doneish on that.
16:21:22 ralphm linuxwolf: aaaarghhh
16:21:23 stpeter forgot his phone at home, otherwise would've contacted linuxwolf
16:21:27 linuxwolf or a better routing algorithm (-
16:21:33 Kev Next item: Next meeting.
16:21:51 Kev We're halfway through December, I suggest we skip meeting until the new year.
16:21:55 stpeter looks at the calendar
16:21:56 linuxwolf /agreed
16:21:56 stpeter yeah
16:22:08 Fritzy 22nd shouldn't be a big deal though?
16:22:08 Kev 5th Jan sounds good to me.
16:22:08 MattJ That would give me a chance to get some XEPs submitted :)
16:22:09 linuxwolf I'm <presence type='unavailable'/> until 01/03 anyway
16:22:12 Fritzy ok
16:22:18 stpeter I might be able to get some protoXEPs and edits done before the next meeting
16:22:30 linuxwolf what stpeter said (-:
16:22:30 dwd linuxwolf, That's not an RFC 3339 compliant date format, naughty.
16:22:31 Kev MattJ: I intend to submit the 136bis related stuff once you're ready to submit 136bis.
16:22:31 stpeter (protoxep for muc error elements)
16:22:34 ralphm For the record: no -1 on publishing remote-auth
16:22:49 Fritzy +1 for Jan 5th
16:22:51 linuxwolf dwd: 20110103T08:00:00-07:00
16:23:03 stpeter adds January 5 to the calendar
16:23:04 remko linuxwolf: thanks. Now us europeans can understand what you mean
16:23:08 Fritzy ralphm: would be interested in reading your critique
16:23:10 Kev linuxwolf: I think that's an hour off.
16:23:11 MattJ Kev, excellent
16:23:17 ralphm Fritzy: 'no -1'
16:23:25 Fritzy oh right
16:23:27 Fritzy lack of veto
16:23:28 Fritzy :)
16:23:29 Kev 9am for -7, isn't it?
16:23:38 Kev 1600 Real Time.
16:23:46 ralphm Kev: did you catch that for the tally?
16:23:46 stpeter it's 9 AM in Denver, 8 AM for Fritzy
16:23:50 linuxwolf Kev: noting when I can be expected back online, not the next meeting (-:
16:23:51 Fritzy yup
16:23:53 Kev ralphm: I did, ta.
16:23:59 Kev linuxwolf: sneaky.
16:24:05 linuxwolf (-;
16:24:20 linuxwolf it's sinister…just like my handedness
16:24:28 Kev Ok, so, next meeting 5th Jan 1600GMT.
16:24:34 Kev Any other Business?
16:24:40 linuxwolf oh, FOSDEM
16:24:52 dwd linuxwolf, Latin gags. I imagine your and PSA's classics-related humour has them rolling on the floor in Cisco.
16:24:53 linuxwolf who from this council is thinking of attending
16:24:54 linuxwolf ?
16:24:59 MattJ <--
16:25:03 dwd Kev will be.
16:25:04 Kev linuxwolf: I'm assuming I will be.
16:25:08 linuxwolf hehe
16:25:13 dwd Kev, You are attending.
16:25:17 stpeter heh
16:25:19 Kev Jolly good.
16:25:20 Fritzy Wish I could make it this year, but since I'll be in Italy shortly after, it isn't in the budget.
16:25:22 remko dwd: you?
16:25:25 linuxwolf dwd: "Good to be the King" (-:
16:25:25 dwd Kev, I forgot to mention.
16:25:29 stpeter and we know how much Kev loves Brussels
16:25:42 dwd remko, I am, too. \o/
16:25:42 MattJ :)
16:25:45 stpeter but at least he has a few good memories of the place :)
16:25:45 ralphm I'm attending of course
16:25:45 Kev About || this much.
16:25:47 remko dwd: \o/
16:25:49 Fritzy they have good beer
16:25:49 linuxwolf I need to find business justification before I can commit to being at FOSDEM
16:26:00 Kev And I caught this awful 'having a wife' illness there, too.
16:26:03 Kev But yes.
16:26:05 ralphm linuxwolf: does "meeting ralphm" count?
16:26:08 Kev linuxwolf: I'll be there :)
16:26:09 linuxwolf (-:
16:26:10 Kev Job done.
16:26:20 linuxwolf if we have an "official council meeting", that can help (-:
16:26:26 Fritzy aw man
16:26:28 ralphm linuxwolf: done deal
16:26:30 stpeter linuxwolf: we can find some customers for you to meet with :)
16:26:33 dwd linuxwolf, Kurt wants to discuss digsig in XMPP, which is relevant.
16:26:36 linuxwolf I'm working on my list…but every little thing helps
16:26:46 Kev I expect there to be some informal interop, but I'm not sure if it'll be formal.
16:26:57 linuxwolf stpeter: the good thing about Cisco is, it's global, so I can always find someone I need to talk with
16:27:05 Kev Right.
16:27:05 Fritzy we did Jingle interop the year before last
16:27:09 ralphm linuxwolf: is being-council-member considered part of your job?
16:27:24 linuxwolf ralphm: I believe it is, yes (-:
16:27:29 ralphm ralphm: well, there you go
16:27:32 linuxwolf heh
16:27:35 Kev Or here you come, or something.
16:27:36 Kev Anyway.
16:27:42 Kev Any other any other business?
16:27:49 linuxwolf I'm done...really!
16:27:51 Fritzy no sir
16:28:07 ralphm 5 min. to spare. nice
16:28:25 Kev There are advantages to having a Chair with the attention span of a
16:28:28 Kev oooh, butterflies.
16:28:36 Kev Right!
16:28:36 linuxwolf SQUIRREL!
16:28:47 Kev I'll write up some meetings of the minute tomorrow morning.
16:28:51 linuxwolf /nod
16:28:58 Kev Thanks all
16:29:03 Kev gavels the bang.
16:29:08 linuxwolf Kev: and I'll begin the out-of-band discussion shortly
16:29:12 MattJ Merci
16:29:24 linuxwolf ¡gracias!
16:29:31 Kev linuxwolf: Thanks. I like multiple-clients, but don't have an implementation yet, so it's not too late to change my mind :)
16:29:37 Kev Anyway, there is a road to be hit.
16:29:38 Kev gn all.
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16:29:49 stpeter bye!
16:29:51 linuxwolf ttfn
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16:29:55 ralphm Kev: I want it in my n900
16:30:00 stpeter checks the logs to see what he missed
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