XMPP Council - 2011-01-05

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  16. stpeter

    hey boss, I'm here! :)

  17. Kev


  18. Kev

    Worryingly, I'm not showing in the occupant list, and the room is sending messages to three of my resources.

  19. stpeter

    although I'm still woefully behind from having been offline for 10 days

  20. stpeter


  21. Kev

    Oh, and the silly server doesn't allow me to kick myself.

  22. Kev

    Are you able to (please)?

  23. stpeter

    I can kick you, perhaps

  24. stpeter

    I am not allowed to kick you

  25. Kev

    Can you do the demote/kick/make owner dance please?

  26. stpeter

    sigh :)

  27. Kev

    Oh, wait.

  28. Kev

    I wonder if I can do this...

  29. Kev

    No, not allowed.

  30. Kev

    So yes, the dance needs to be done :/

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  32. Kev

    Murky buckets.

  33. stpeter

    and you're back!

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  35. Kev


  36. stpeter

    you were also an owner with typographically-challenged JIDs

  37. Kev

    Was I? Excellent.

  38. stpeter


  39. Kev


  40. Kev

    I'll put myself back, but without the type.

  41. Kev


  42. stpeter


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  44. Kev

    Much better. Now I can do the demotion dance myself next time :)

  45. stpeter

    so many JIDs, so little time

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  47. Kev


  48. stpeter

    once again I didn't receive the meeting notification in my calendaring app

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  50. waqas

    Thanks for the identica notification stpeter

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  52. stpeter

    waqas: sure thing!

  53. stpeter

    cross-posted to my Twitter account too, not that I pay any attention to Twitter

  54. stpeter quickly finishes reading https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pim-group-rp-mapping/?include_text=1

  55. linuxwolf

    stpeter: so, light reading (-:

  56. stpeter

    miles to go before we sleep, at least with respect to tomorrow's IESG meeting

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  60. Fritzy

    Good morning.

  61. bear lurks in the corner with his Board Member hat on

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  63. Kev

    (I asked bear along for the FOSDEM discussions)

  64. stpeter

    I wish there were a way to move tabs around in Psi, as there is in Firefox

  65. stpeter

    too many tabs...

  66. Kev

    There is, but you won't like it :)

  67. stpeter


  68. Kev

    Aaaaaanyway, it's Wednesday, it's four o'clock, and it's Council time!

  69. Fritzy

    it's 8am, and I'm in my pajamas.

  70. Kev

    1) Roll call.

  71. Fritzy


  72. linuxwolf


  73. Kev

    I believe I'm here also.

  74. Kev

    Ralph has just gone AFK, and I've not seen MattJ today.

  75. Kev

    2) Agenda bashing.

  76. Kev

    Seems fairly quiet.

  77. Kev

    3) FOSDEM.

  78. Fritzy

    I'll be there. Last time we talked, I wasn't going, but I am now.

  79. stpeter


  80. Fritzy

    have we determined what we're doing for a competition?

  81. stpeter

    sorry, had a phone call

  82. Kev

    Does Council need to do anything in preparation for this? Board asked me to send a mail to members@ asking what people wanted to do for the hackfest on the Friday, which no-one has yet replied to.

  83. stpeter

    let's get Florian in here

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  85. Kev

    stpeter: That's why bear's been invited :)

  86. Kev

    I would have asked Florian as our man on the ground, but his status indicates he's on his mobile.

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  88. stpeter


  89. stpeter

    there he is

  90. Kev

    Florian: see above :)

  91. stpeter

    Florian is Mr. Competition

  92. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Wow, I seem to be able to do MUC

  93. Fritzy


  94. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    So, what's up?

  95. Kev

    Does Council need to do anything to prepare for FOSDEM?

  96. Kev

    I sent my mail to members@ asking about the Friday, as requested, although no-one's answered.

  97. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  98. bear

    is Interop going to be an official event?

  99. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Interop on Friday maybe?

  100. Kev

    What sort of interop?

  101. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    As we have people hacking on clients and servers?

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  103. Fritzy

    either interop or a hackfest

  104. bear

    that's why I was asking kev

  105. Kev

    I'm happy to have a day hacking on stuff, and it'd be fun, the question is whether it's the best use of time/resources.

  106. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  107. stpeter replies to Kev's message on the summit@ list

  108. bear

    I would (personally) love to see some client lib hacking against the interop servers

  109. Kev

    bear: explain.

  110. Kev

    Oh, was it summit@ that I mailed? Whatever :)

  111. Kev

    Thanks Peter.

  112. Fritzy

    well, we've done a bunch of s2s interop, and even some c2s interop. It's time for some client to server interop, right?

  113. Fritzy

    errr. c2c not c2s

  114. Kev

    Isn't c2s interop synonymous with client to server interop?

  115. linuxwolf

    that's what I was thinking...

  116. Fritzy

    yeah, type-o

  117. Kev

    Right, let's try the whole sentence again with the right words :)

  118. Fritzy


  119. bear

    right what fritzy meant to say: some basic c2c across each interop server

  120. Fritzy

    ok, we've done s2s and client-to-client, but we haven't done much client-to-server that I'm aware of.

  121. Kev


  122. Fritzy

    making sure that clients are treating certificates correctly, etc.

  123. bear nods

  124. Fritzy

    dealing with jid binding correctly for edge cases, etc

  125. linuxwolf nods … and expects lots of failures there

  126. Kev

    Right, there was a little of that in interop week, but Swift was the only client that was keeping up with the tests I published.

  127. linuxwolf

    it's good to be the King? (-;

  128. Kev

    (where keeping up isn't used as a synonym for passing)

  129. Kev

    linuxwolf: I think there was a general lack of interest from client devs, compared to server devs.

  130. Fritzy

    what client devs are we going to have there? I'd be happy to run Sleek through it.

  131. Fritzy

    I think there was general unawareness from client devs.

  132. Kev

    stpeter: Is our 'net connection going to be sensible this year?

  133. Fritzy

    we'll be at Cisco, so I'd hope so.

  134. Kev

    If it is, I can have the various test servers for invalid certs etc. set up for testing against remotely.

  135. Kev

    Fritzy: Never hurts to check.

  136. bear

    that's my secret/evil plan - alternating server interop with client/lib interop. so they are continually building on the successes of the prior sessions

  137. stpeter

    Kev: yes, it should be!

  138. Fritzy

    and maybe the council/board could seek out client devs ahead of time, poking them individually.

  139. waqas

    Tests for non-ASCII hostnames in certs would be good. Along with unusual DNS configurations.

  140. Kev

    bear: Well, I'd rather we ran them at the same time tbh.

  141. bear

    kev - just trying to avoid burnout of one or the other

  142. Kev

    Client testing relies on having the test servers up, and there's no motivation for the server vendors to spend (significant) resources on the event for client testing.

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  144. Kev

    waqas: We can test those things, but given the simultaneous upheaval in internationalisation stuffs, it's not clear to me that it's a worthwhile exercise.

  145. Kev

    We'll find out how good support is for the standard we're about to change :)

  146. bear

    my working assumption is until we get both sides generating data interest will be hard to maintain

  147. Fritzy

    what kind of data?

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  149. bear

    this server does xep x, y, z but not q

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  151. Kev

    Ok, so, I propose that what we do on Friday is (apart from Peter's early session on internationalisation), we don't schedule talks, and that we spend the day in a combination of hacking and informal testing.

  152. bear

    this client supports y, z but fails on x

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  154. stpeter

    BTW I volunteered to present an internationalization tutorial on Friday

  155. bear

    +1 to kev's idea

  156. Kev

    bear: Note that we have those data (and published them) for all of the participating clients and servers for the last test event.

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  159. Kev

    stpeter: Yes, isn't that what I said?

  160. bear

    kev - yep, and that's the first step

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  163. Fritzy

    I think we need to reach out to people individually ahead of time

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  165. Kev

    So, I think we need to decide if either testing or hackfesting is going to be formalised in any way for the Friday. I'm inclined to say 'no', but if people want it to be, we'll need to decide how/what.

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  167. Kev

    Fritzy: Yes, that should have happened with the last interop, but didn't really.

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  170. Fritzy

    sounds like a board thing. ;)

  171. Kev

    It was :)

  172. bear

    it was and it was early in that board iteration :(

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  175. Fritzy

    bear, how about we work together to seek out client dev participants? you and I can get it done.

  176. bear


  177. Kev

    So, my opinion is that there's nothing for Council to be doing in planning Friday at this stage, unless further discussion changes this.

  178. stpeter

    seems so

  179. bear


  180. Kev

    Which brings us to the date of next meeting.

  181. Kev

    Next Wed. as usual?

  182. linuxwolf


  183. Fritzy


  184. stpeter


  185. Kev


  186. Kev

    Any other business?

  187. stpeter

    none here

  188. Fritzy

    Will we have the whole council at FOSDEM?

  189. stpeter

    at least for toda

  190. stpeter


  191. stpeter

    Fritzy: I think so, but not sure about lw

  192. Fritzy

    that'll be a first

  193. linuxwolf

    I've gotten conflicting answers so far

  194. Fritzy

    we might have a meeting while we're there in peron.

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  196. ralphm

    oh eoe

  197. ralphm

    I couldn't get in here

  198. ralphm

    still loads of lag

  199. Fritzy

    we could plan some council discussions over theweekend.

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  202. Kev

    We could. Or we could just let them happen naturally :)

  203. Kev

    So, I think we're done then.

  204. ralphm


  205. Kev

    ralphm: There'll be more meetings.

  206. Kev

    Thanks all.

  207. Kev bangs the gavel.

  208. ralphm

    Kev: thanks!

  209. stpeter

    the one time we had a formal council meeting in person, everyone else just zoned out :)

  210. ralphm

    doesn't sound like I missed very much

  211. Kev

    stpeter: That was 2008, I think.

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  213. Kev

    No, 2007

  214. stpeter

    2007 sounds right

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  216. Fritzy

    yeah, this is 2011... things have changed! Humanity has evolved!

  217. ralphm

    stpeter: yeah, that didn't quite work

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  219. stpeter

    so much evolution, so little progress...

  220. ralphm

    we can just sit in a corner and maybe people want to join

  221. Fritzy

    In any case, I wouldn't have the meeting with the group as a whole. After hours.

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  223. ralphm

    I wouldn't do it planary

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  227. linuxwolf waves adios

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  261. MattJ


  262. ralphm

    MattJ: welcome anyway

  263. MattJ

    Thanks :)

  264. MattJ was out and didn't make it back in time

  265. MattJ

    Someone needs to write a decent MUC-capable Android client

  266. stpeter

    ralphm: did we receive confirmation regarding the FOSDEM stand?

  267. ralphm

    stpeter: I didn't

  268. stpeter

    ralphm: discussing FOSDEM in xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join

  269. stpeter

    hmm ok

  270. stpeter checks his email

  271. ralphm

    stpeter: I'm unsure now if we applied

  272. stpeter

    um, ok, perhaps I left that for you and you left that for me

  273. ralphm

    stpeter: possible. we suck :-(

  274. ralphm

    stpeter: I do regret I didn't check that, though

  275. stpeter

    ralphm: it's ok

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  280. stpeter

    do we have a Council meeting planned for next week?

  281. stpeter

    if so, I'll update the calendar

  282. stpeter scrolls up

  283. stpeter


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