XMPP Council - 2011-01-05

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15:42:47 stpeter hey boss, I'm here! :)
15:46:22 Kev Excellent.
15:46:48 Kev Worryingly, I'm not showing in the occupant list, and the room is sending messages to three of my resources.
15:46:53 stpeter although I'm still woefully behind from having been offline for 10 days
15:46:55 stpeter heh
15:47:40 Kev Oh, and the silly server doesn't allow me to kick myself.
15:47:56 Kev Are you able to (please)?
15:47:58 stpeter I can kick you, perhaps
15:48:12 stpeter I am not allowed to kick you
15:48:33 Kev Can you do the demote/kick/make owner dance please?
15:48:40 stpeter sigh :)
15:48:43 Kev Oh, wait.
15:48:46 Kev I wonder if I can do this...
15:48:55 Kev No, not allowed.
15:48:59 Kev So yes, the dance needs to be done :/
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15:50:34 Kev Murky buckets.
15:50:35 stpeter and you're back!
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15:50:51 Kev Excellent.
15:51:03 stpeter you were also an owner with typographically-challenged JIDs
15:51:14 Kev Was I? Excellent.
15:51:37 stpeter kismithh@domain.tld
15:51:43 Kev Heh.
15:51:52 Kev I'll put myself back, but without the type.
15:51:54 Kev *typo.
15:52:11 stpeter k
15:52:12 stpeter good
15:52:18 Kev Much better. Now I can do the demotion dance myself next time :)
15:52:22 stpeter so many JIDs, so little time
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15:52:34 Kev Quite.
15:52:48 stpeter once again I didn't receive the meeting notification in my calendaring app
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15:54:40 waqas Thanks for the identica notification stpeter
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15:54:49 stpeter waqas: sure thing!
15:55:05 stpeter cross-posted to my Twitter account too, not that I pay any attention to Twitter
15:55:30 stpeter quickly finishes reading https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pim-group-rp-mapping/?include_text=1
15:56:15 linuxwolf stpeter: so, light reading (-:
15:56:56 stpeter miles to go before we sleep, at least with respect to tomorrow's IESG meeting
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16:01:26 Fritzy Good morning.
16:01:40 bear lurks in the corner with his Board Member hat on
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16:01:58 Kev (I asked bear along for the FOSDEM discussions)
16:02:23 stpeter I wish there were a way to move tabs around in Psi, as there is in Firefox
16:02:30 stpeter too many tabs...
16:02:39 Kev There is, but you won't like it :)
16:02:53 stpeter heh
16:03:21 Kev Aaaaaanyway, it's Wednesday, it's four o'clock, and it's Council time!
16:03:37 Fritzy it's 8am, and I'm in my pajamas.
16:03:42 Kev 1) Roll call.
16:03:50 Fritzy here
16:04:03 linuxwolf there
16:04:06 Kev I believe I'm here also.
16:04:30 Kev Ralph has just gone AFK, and I've not seen MattJ today.
16:04:39 Kev 2) Agenda bashing.
16:05:31 Kev Seems fairly quiet.
16:05:37 Kev 3) FOSDEM.
16:05:50 Fritzy I'll be there. Last time we talked, I wasn't going, but I am now.
16:05:51 stpeter :)
16:06:01 Fritzy have we determined what we're doing for a competition?
16:06:01 stpeter sorry, had a phone call
16:06:09 Kev Does Council need to do anything in preparation for this? Board asked me to send a mail to members@ asking what people wanted to do for the hackfest on the Friday, which no-one has yet replied to.
16:06:12 stpeter let's get Florian in here
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16:06:25 Kev stpeter: That's why bear's been invited :)
16:06:38 Kev I would have asked Florian as our man on the ground, but his status indicates he's on his mobile.
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16:06:46 stpeter ah
16:06:47 stpeter there he is
16:06:56 Kev Florian: see above :)
16:06:57 stpeter Florian is Mr. Competition
16:07:04 admin@im.flosoft.biz Wow, I seem to be able to do MUC
16:07:11 Fritzy :_
16:07:37 admin@im.flosoft.biz So, what's up?
16:07:49 Kev Does Council need to do anything to prepare for FOSDEM?
16:08:01 Kev I sent my mail to members@ asking about the Friday, as requested, although no-one's answered.
16:08:04 admin@im.flosoft.biz Talks?
16:08:07 bear is Interop going to be an official event?
16:08:27 admin@im.flosoft.biz Interop on Friday maybe?
16:08:36 Kev What sort of interop?
16:08:42 admin@im.flosoft.biz As we have people hacking on clients and servers?
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16:08:43 Fritzy either interop or a hackfest
16:08:44 bear that's why I was asking kev
16:09:19 Kev I'm happy to have a day hacking on stuff, and it'd be fun, the question is whether it's the best use of time/resources.
16:09:49 admin@im.flosoft.biz Hmm...
16:09:58 stpeter replies to Kev's message on the summit@ list
16:09:58 bear I would (personally) love to see some client lib hacking against the interop servers
16:10:12 Kev bear: explain.
16:10:25 Kev Oh, was it summit@ that I mailed? Whatever :)
16:10:34 Kev Thanks Peter.
16:10:44 Fritzy well, we've done a bunch of s2s interop, and even some c2s interop. It's time for some client to server interop, right?
16:11:04 Fritzy errr. c2c not c2s
16:11:04 Kev Isn't c2s interop synonymous with client to server interop?
16:11:14 linuxwolf that's what I was thinking...
16:11:15 Fritzy yeah, type-o
16:11:20 Kev Right, let's try the whole sentence again with the right words :)
16:11:32 Fritzy -_-
16:11:41 bear right what fritzy meant to say: some basic c2c across each interop server
16:12:04 Fritzy ok, we've done s2s and client-to-client, but we haven't done much client-to-server that I'm aware of.
16:12:08 Kev Ok.
16:12:26 Fritzy making sure that clients are treating certificates correctly, etc.
16:12:32 bear nods
16:12:46 Fritzy dealing with jid binding correctly for edge cases, etc
16:13:12 linuxwolf nods … and expects lots of failures there
16:13:21 Kev Right, there was a little of that in interop week, but Swift was the only client that was keeping up with the tests I published.
16:13:40 linuxwolf it's good to be the King? (-;
16:13:43 Kev (where keeping up isn't used as a synonym for passing)
16:13:59 Kev linuxwolf: I think there was a general lack of interest from client devs, compared to server devs.
16:14:01 Fritzy what client devs are we going to have there? I'd be happy to run Sleek through it.
16:14:17 Fritzy I think there was general unawareness from client devs.
16:14:34 Kev stpeter: Is our 'net connection going to be sensible this year?
16:14:48 Fritzy we'll be at Cisco, so I'd hope so.
16:14:55 Kev If it is, I can have the various test servers for invalid certs etc. set up for testing against remotely.
16:15:15 Kev Fritzy: Never hurts to check.
16:15:40 bear that's my secret/evil plan - alternating server interop with client/lib interop. so they are continually building on the successes of the prior sessions
16:15:50 stpeter Kev: yes, it should be!
16:16:00 Fritzy and maybe the council/board could seek out client devs ahead of time, poking them individually.
16:16:03 waqas Tests for non-ASCII hostnames in certs would be good. Along with unusual DNS configurations.
16:16:05 Kev bear: Well, I'd rather we ran them at the same time tbh.
16:16:18 bear kev - just trying to avoid burnout of one or the other
16:16:34 Kev Client testing relies on having the test servers up, and there's no motivation for the server vendors to spend (significant) resources on the event for client testing.
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16:17:50 Kev waqas: We can test those things, but given the simultaneous upheaval in internationalisation stuffs, it's not clear to me that it's a worthwhile exercise.
16:18:03 Kev We'll find out how good support is for the standard we're about to change :)
16:18:05 bear my working assumption is until we get both sides generating data interest will be hard to maintain
16:18:31 Fritzy what kind of data?
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16:19:19 bear this server does xep x, y, z but not q
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16:19:23 Kev Ok, so, I propose that what we do on Friday is (apart from Peter's early session on internationalisation), we don't schedule talks, and that we spend the day in a combination of hacking and informal testing.
16:19:28 bear this client supports y, z but fails on x
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16:19:49 stpeter BTW I volunteered to present an internationalization tutorial on Friday
16:19:51 bear +1 to kev's idea
16:19:54 Kev bear: Note that we have those data (and published them) for all of the participating clients and servers for the last test event.
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16:20:13 Kev stpeter: Yes, isn't that what I said?
16:20:14 bear kev - yep, and that's the first step
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16:21:00 Fritzy I think we need to reach out to people individually ahead of time
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16:21:09 Kev So, I think we need to decide if either testing or hackfesting is going to be formalised in any way for the Friday. I'm inclined to say 'no', but if people want it to be, we'll need to decide how/what.
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16:21:29 Kev Fritzy: Yes, that should have happened with the last interop, but didn't really.
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16:21:41 Fritzy sounds like a board thing. ;)
16:21:45 Kev It was :)
16:22:03 bear it was and it was early in that board iteration :(
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16:22:25 Fritzy bear, how about we work together to seek out client dev participants? you and I can get it done.
16:22:32 bear deal
16:22:35 Kev So, my opinion is that there's nothing for Council to be doing in planning Friday at this stage, unless further discussion changes this.
16:22:41 stpeter seems so
16:22:45 bear agreed
16:22:55 Kev Which brings us to the date of next meeting.
16:23:01 Kev Next Wed. as usual?
16:23:05 linuxwolf /nod
16:23:09 Fritzy +1
16:23:16 stpeter WFM
16:23:25 Kev Excellent.
16:23:27 Kev Any other business?
16:23:38 stpeter none here
16:23:42 Fritzy Will we have the whole council at FOSDEM?
16:23:42 stpeter at least for toda
16:23:48 stpeter +y
16:23:58 stpeter Fritzy: I think so, but not sure about lw
16:24:12 Fritzy that'll be a first
16:24:18 linuxwolf I've gotten conflicting answers so far
16:24:21 Fritzy we might have a meeting while we're there in peron.
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16:24:47 ralphm oh eoe
16:24:51 ralphm I couldn't get in here
16:25:01 ralphm still loads of lag
16:25:14 Fritzy we could plan some council discussions over theweekend.
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16:26:03 Kev We could. Or we could just let them happen naturally :)
16:26:09 Kev So, I think we're done then.
16:26:13 ralphm :-(
16:26:23 Kev ralphm: There'll be more meetings.
16:26:27 Kev Thanks all.
16:26:31 Kev bangs the gavel.
16:26:35 ralphm Kev: thanks!
16:26:38 stpeter the one time we had a formal council meeting in person, everyone else just zoned out :)
16:26:44 ralphm doesn't sound like I missed very much
16:26:47 Kev stpeter: That was 2008, I think.
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16:26:53 Kev No, 2007
16:26:59 stpeter 2007 sounds right
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16:27:09 Fritzy yeah, this is 2011... things have changed! Humanity has evolved!
16:27:16 ralphm stpeter: yeah, that didn't quite work
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16:27:24 stpeter so much evolution, so little progress...
16:27:31 ralphm we can just sit in a corner and maybe people want to join
16:27:34 Fritzy In any case, I wouldn't have the meeting with the group as a whole. After hours.
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16:27:42 ralphm I wouldn't do it planary
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16:28:26 linuxwolf waves adios
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16:31:04 Fritzy ciao
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16:50:34 MattJ :(
17:07:19 ralphm MattJ: welcome anyway
17:07:41 MattJ Thanks :)
17:07:50 MattJ was out and didn't make it back in time
17:08:12 MattJ Someone needs to write a decent MUC-capable Android client
17:08:15 stpeter ralphm: did we receive confirmation regarding the FOSDEM stand?
17:08:31 ralphm stpeter: I didn't
17:08:44 stpeter ralphm: discussing FOSDEM in xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join
17:08:46 stpeter hmm ok
17:08:50 stpeter checks his email
17:08:54 ralphm stpeter: I'm unsure now if we applied
17:10:14 stpeter um, ok, perhaps I left that for you and you left that for me
17:13:11 ralphm stpeter: possible. we suck :-(
17:18:58 ralphm stpeter: I do regret I didn't check that, though
17:29:22 stpeter ralphm: it's ok
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17:46:59 stpeter do we have a Council meeting planned for next week?
17:47:04 stpeter if so, I'll update the calendar
17:47:08 stpeter scrolls up
17:47:23 stpeter yep
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