stpetermiles to go before we sleep, at least with respect to tomorrow's IESG meeting
Funatikerhas joined
Johann Prieurhas joined
Fritzyhas joined
FritzyGood morning.
bearlurks in the corner with his Board Member hat on
wjthas joined
Kev(I asked bear along for the FOSDEM discussions)
stpeterI wish there were a way to move tabs around in Psi, as there is in Firefox
stpetertoo many tabs...
KevThere is, but you won't like it :)
stpeterheh
KevAaaaaanyway, it's Wednesday, it's four o'clock, and it's Council time!
Fritzyit's 8am, and I'm in my pajamas.
Kev1) Roll call.
Fritzyhere
linuxwolfthere
KevI believe I'm here also.
KevRalph has just gone AFK, and I've not seen MattJ today.
Kev2) Agenda bashing.
KevSeems fairly quiet.
Kev3) FOSDEM.
FritzyI'll be there. Last time we talked, I wasn't going, but I am now.
stpeter:)
Fritzyhave we determined what we're doing for a competition?
stpetersorry, had a phone call
KevDoes Council need to do anything in preparation for this? Board asked me to send a mail to members@ asking what people wanted to do for the hackfest on the Friday, which no-one has yet replied to.
stpeterlet's get Florian in here
waqashas left
Kevstpeter: That's why bear's been invited :)
KevI would have asked Florian as our man on the ground, but his status indicates he's on his mobile.
admin@im.flosoft.bizhas joined
stpeterah
stpeterthere he is
KevFlorian: see above :)
stpeterFlorian is Mr. Competition
admin@im.flosoft.bizWow, I seem to be able to do MUC
Fritzy:_
admin@im.flosoft.bizSo, what's up?
KevDoes Council need to do anything to prepare for FOSDEM?
KevI sent my mail to members@ asking about the Friday, as requested, although no-one's answered.
admin@im.flosoft.bizTalks?
bearis Interop going to be an official event?
admin@im.flosoft.bizInterop on Friday maybe?
KevWhat sort of interop?
admin@im.flosoft.bizAs we have people hacking on clients and servers?
waqashas joined
Fritzyeither interop or a hackfest
bearthat's why I was asking kev
KevI'm happy to have a day hacking on stuff, and it'd be fun, the question is whether it's the best use of time/resources.
admin@im.flosoft.bizHmm...
stpeterreplies to Kev's message on the summit@ list
bearI would (personally) love to see some client lib hacking against the interop servers
Kevbear: explain.
KevOh, was it summit@ that I mailed? Whatever :)
KevThanks Peter.
Fritzywell, we've done a bunch of s2s interop, and even some c2s interop. It's time for some client to server interop, right?
Fritzyerrr. c2c not c2s
KevIsn't c2s interop synonymous with client to server interop?
linuxwolfthat's what I was thinking...
Fritzyyeah, type-o
KevRight, let's try the whole sentence again with the right words :)
Fritzy-_-
bearright what fritzy meant to say: some basic c2c across each interop server
Fritzyok, we've done s2s and client-to-client, but we haven't done much client-to-server that I'm aware of.
KevOk.
Fritzymaking sure that clients are treating certificates correctly, etc.
bearnods
Fritzydealing with jid binding correctly for edge cases, etc
linuxwolfnods … and expects lots of failures there
KevRight, there was a little of that in interop week, but Swift was the only client that was keeping up with the tests I published.
linuxwolfit's good to be the King? (-;
Kev(where keeping up isn't used as a synonym for passing)
Kevlinuxwolf: I think there was a general lack of interest from client devs, compared to server devs.
Fritzywhat client devs are we going to have there? I'd be happy to run Sleek through it.
FritzyI think there was general unawareness from client devs.
Kevstpeter: Is our 'net connection going to be sensible this year?
Fritzywe'll be at Cisco, so I'd hope so.
KevIf it is, I can have the various test servers for invalid certs etc. set up for testing against remotely.
KevFritzy: Never hurts to check.
bearthat's my secret/evil plan - alternating server interop with client/lib interop. so they are continually building on the successes of the prior sessions
stpeterKev: yes, it should be!
Fritzyand maybe the council/board could seek out client devs ahead of time, poking them individually.
waqasTests for non-ASCII hostnames in certs would be good. Along with unusual DNS configurations.
Kevbear: Well, I'd rather we ran them at the same time tbh.
bearkev - just trying to avoid burnout of one or the other
KevClient testing relies on having the test servers up, and there's no motivation for the server vendors to spend (significant) resources on the event for client testing.
adminhas joined
Kevwaqas: We can test those things, but given the simultaneous upheaval in internationalisation stuffs, it's not clear to me that it's a worthwhile exercise.
KevWe'll find out how good support is for the standard we're about to change :)
bearmy working assumption is until we get both sides generating data interest will be hard to maintain
Fritzywhat kind of data?
adminhas left
bearthis server does xep x, y, z but not q
adminhas joined
KevOk, so, I propose that what we do on Friday is (apart from Peter's early session on internationalisation), we don't schedule talks, and that we spend the day in a combination of hacking and informal testing.
bearthis client supports y, z but fails on x
adminhas left
stpeterBTW I volunteered to present an internationalization tutorial on Friday
bear+1 to kev's idea
Kevbear: Note that we have those data (and published them) for all of the participating clients and servers for the last test event.
adminhas joined
whohas joined
Kevstpeter: Yes, isn't that what I said?
bearkev - yep, and that's the first step
adminhas left
Lancehas joined
FritzyI think we need to reach out to people individually ahead of time
adminhas joined
KevSo, I think we need to decide if either testing or hackfesting is going to be formalised in any way for the Friday. I'm inclined to say 'no', but if people want it to be, we'll need to decide how/what.
adminhas left
KevFritzy: Yes, that should have happened with the last interop, but didn't really.
adminhas joined
adminhas left
Fritzysounds like a board thing. ;)
KevIt was :)
bearit was and it was early in that board iteration :(
adminhas joined
adminhas left
Fritzybear, how about we work together to seek out client dev participants? you and I can get it done.
beardeal
KevSo, my opinion is that there's nothing for Council to be doing in planning Friday at this stage, unless further discussion changes this.
stpeterseems so
bearagreed
KevWhich brings us to the date of next meeting.
KevNext Wed. as usual?
linuxwolf/nod
Fritzy+1
stpeterWFM
KevExcellent.
KevAny other business?
stpeternone here
FritzyWill we have the whole council at FOSDEM?
stpeterat least for toda
stpeter+y
stpeterFritzy: I think so, but not sure about lw
Fritzythat'll be a first
linuxwolfI've gotten conflicting answers so far
Fritzywe might have a meeting while we're there in peron.
ralphmhas joined
ralphmoh eoe
ralphmI couldn't get in here
ralphmstill loads of lag
Fritzywe could plan some council discussions over theweekend.
adminhas joined
adminhas left
KevWe could. Or we could just let them happen naturally :)
KevSo, I think we're done then.
ralphm:-(
Kevralphm: There'll be more meetings.
KevThanks all.
Kevbangs the gavel.
ralphmKev: thanks!
stpeterthe one time we had a formal council meeting in person, everyone else just zoned out :)
ralphmdoesn't sound like I missed very much
Kevstpeter: That was 2008, I think.
tjd.rodgershas joined
KevNo, 2007
stpeter2007 sounds right
waqashas left
Fritzyyeah, this is 2011... things have changed! Humanity has evolved!
ralphmstpeter: yeah, that didn't quite work
adminhas joined
stpeterso much evolution, so little progress...
ralphmwe can just sit in a corner and maybe people want to join
FritzyIn any case, I wouldn't have the meeting with the group as a whole. After hours.
adminhas left
ralphmI wouldn't do it planary
adminhas joined
adminhas left
tjd.rodgershas left
linuxwolfwaves adios
linuxwolfhas left
Lancehas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
wjthas left
adminhas left
adminhas joined
Fritzyciao
Johann Prieurhas left
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
whohas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
Fritzyhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
Tobiashas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
adminhas joined
adminhas left
MattJhas joined
MattJ:(
ralphmMattJ: welcome anyway
MattJThanks :)
MattJwas out and didn't make it back in time
MattJSomeone needs to write a decent MUC-capable Android client
stpeterralphm: did we receive confirmation regarding the FOSDEM stand?
ralphmstpeter: I didn't
stpeterralphm: discussing FOSDEM in xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join
stpeterhmm ok
stpeterchecks his email
ralphmstpeter: I'm unsure now if we applied
stpeterum, ok, perhaps I left that for you and you left that for me
ralphmstpeter: possible. we suck :-(
ralphmstpeter: I do regret I didn't check that, though
stpeterralphm: it's ok
ralphmhas left
remkohas joined
remkohas left
Tobiashas joined
stpeterdo we have a Council meeting planned for next week?