miles to go before we sleep, at least with respect to tomorrow's IESG meeting
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Fritzy
Good morning.
bearlurks in the corner with his Board Member hat on
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Kev
(I asked bear along for the FOSDEM discussions)
stpeter
I wish there were a way to move tabs around in Psi, as there is in Firefox
stpeter
too many tabs...
Kev
There is, but you won't like it :)
stpeter
heh
Kev
Aaaaaanyway, it's Wednesday, it's four o'clock, and it's Council time!
Fritzy
it's 8am, and I'm in my pajamas.
Kev
1) Roll call.
Fritzy
here
linuxwolf
there
Kev
I believe I'm here also.
Kev
Ralph has just gone AFK, and I've not seen MattJ today.
Kev
2) Agenda bashing.
Kev
Seems fairly quiet.
Kev
3) FOSDEM.
Fritzy
I'll be there. Last time we talked, I wasn't going, but I am now.
stpeter
:)
Fritzy
have we determined what we're doing for a competition?
stpeter
sorry, had a phone call
Kev
Does Council need to do anything in preparation for this? Board asked me to send a mail to members@ asking what people wanted to do for the hackfest on the Friday, which no-one has yet replied to.
stpeter
let's get Florian in here
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Kev
stpeter: That's why bear's been invited :)
Kev
I would have asked Florian as our man on the ground, but his status indicates he's on his mobile.
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stpeter
ah
stpeter
there he is
Kev
Florian: see above :)
stpeter
Florian is Mr. Competition
admin@im.flosoft.biz
Wow, I seem to be able to do MUC
Fritzy
:_
admin@im.flosoft.biz
So, what's up?
Kev
Does Council need to do anything to prepare for FOSDEM?
Kev
I sent my mail to members@ asking about the Friday, as requested, although no-one's answered.
admin@im.flosoft.biz
Talks?
bear
is Interop going to be an official event?
admin@im.flosoft.biz
Interop on Friday maybe?
Kev
What sort of interop?
admin@im.flosoft.biz
As we have people hacking on clients and servers?
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Fritzy
either interop or a hackfest
bear
that's why I was asking kev
Kev
I'm happy to have a day hacking on stuff, and it'd be fun, the question is whether it's the best use of time/resources.
admin@im.flosoft.biz
Hmm...
stpeterreplies to Kev's message on the summit@ list
bear
I would (personally) love to see some client lib hacking against the interop servers
Kev
bear: explain.
Kev
Oh, was it summit@ that I mailed? Whatever :)
Kev
Thanks Peter.
Fritzy
well, we've done a bunch of s2s interop, and even some c2s interop. It's time for some client to server interop, right?
Fritzy
errr. c2c not c2s
Kev
Isn't c2s interop synonymous with client to server interop?
linuxwolf
that's what I was thinking...
Fritzy
yeah, type-o
Kev
Right, let's try the whole sentence again with the right words :)
Fritzy
-_-
bear
right what fritzy meant to say: some basic c2c across each interop server
Fritzy
ok, we've done s2s and client-to-client, but we haven't done much client-to-server that I'm aware of.
Kev
Ok.
Fritzy
making sure that clients are treating certificates correctly, etc.
bearnods
Fritzy
dealing with jid binding correctly for edge cases, etc
linuxwolfnods … and expects lots of failures there
Kev
Right, there was a little of that in interop week, but Swift was the only client that was keeping up with the tests I published.
linuxwolf
it's good to be the King? (-;
Kev
(where keeping up isn't used as a synonym for passing)
Kev
linuxwolf: I think there was a general lack of interest from client devs, compared to server devs.
Fritzy
what client devs are we going to have there? I'd be happy to run Sleek through it.
Fritzy
I think there was general unawareness from client devs.
Kev
stpeter: Is our 'net connection going to be sensible this year?
Fritzy
we'll be at Cisco, so I'd hope so.
Kev
If it is, I can have the various test servers for invalid certs etc. set up for testing against remotely.
Kev
Fritzy: Never hurts to check.
bear
that's my secret/evil plan - alternating server interop with client/lib interop. so they are continually building on the successes of the prior sessions
stpeter
Kev: yes, it should be!
Fritzy
and maybe the council/board could seek out client devs ahead of time, poking them individually.
waqas
Tests for non-ASCII hostnames in certs would be good. Along with unusual DNS configurations.
Kev
bear: Well, I'd rather we ran them at the same time tbh.
bear
kev - just trying to avoid burnout of one or the other
Kev
Client testing relies on having the test servers up, and there's no motivation for the server vendors to spend (significant) resources on the event for client testing.
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Kev
waqas: We can test those things, but given the simultaneous upheaval in internationalisation stuffs, it's not clear to me that it's a worthwhile exercise.
Kev
We'll find out how good support is for the standard we're about to change :)
bear
my working assumption is until we get both sides generating data interest will be hard to maintain
Fritzy
what kind of data?
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bear
this server does xep x, y, z but not q
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Kev
Ok, so, I propose that what we do on Friday is (apart from Peter's early session on internationalisation), we don't schedule talks, and that we spend the day in a combination of hacking and informal testing.
bear
this client supports y, z but fails on x
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stpeter
BTW I volunteered to present an internationalization tutorial on Friday
bear
+1 to kev's idea
Kev
bear: Note that we have those data (and published them) for all of the participating clients and servers for the last test event.
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Kev
stpeter: Yes, isn't that what I said?
bear
kev - yep, and that's the first step
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Fritzy
I think we need to reach out to people individually ahead of time
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Kev
So, I think we need to decide if either testing or hackfesting is going to be formalised in any way for the Friday. I'm inclined to say 'no', but if people want it to be, we'll need to decide how/what.
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Kev
Fritzy: Yes, that should have happened with the last interop, but didn't really.
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Fritzy
sounds like a board thing. ;)
Kev
It was :)
bear
it was and it was early in that board iteration :(
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Fritzy
bear, how about we work together to seek out client dev participants? you and I can get it done.
bear
deal
Kev
So, my opinion is that there's nothing for Council to be doing in planning Friday at this stage, unless further discussion changes this.
stpeter
seems so
bear
agreed
Kev
Which brings us to the date of next meeting.
Kev
Next Wed. as usual?
linuxwolf
/nod
Fritzy
+1
stpeter
WFM
Kev
Excellent.
Kev
Any other business?
stpeter
none here
Fritzy
Will we have the whole council at FOSDEM?
stpeter
at least for toda
stpeter
+y
stpeter
Fritzy: I think so, but not sure about lw
Fritzy
that'll be a first
linuxwolf
I've gotten conflicting answers so far
Fritzy
we might have a meeting while we're there in peron.
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ralphm
oh eoe
ralphm
I couldn't get in here
ralphm
still loads of lag
Fritzy
we could plan some council discussions over theweekend.
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Kev
We could. Or we could just let them happen naturally :)
Kev
So, I think we're done then.
ralphm
:-(
Kev
ralphm: There'll be more meetings.
Kev
Thanks all.
Kevbangs the gavel.
ralphm
Kev: thanks!
stpeter
the one time we had a formal council meeting in person, everyone else just zoned out :)
ralphm
doesn't sound like I missed very much
Kev
stpeter: That was 2008, I think.
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Kev
No, 2007
stpeter
2007 sounds right
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Fritzy
yeah, this is 2011... things have changed! Humanity has evolved!
ralphm
stpeter: yeah, that didn't quite work
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stpeter
so much evolution, so little progress...
ralphm
we can just sit in a corner and maybe people want to join
Fritzy
In any case, I wouldn't have the meeting with the group as a whole. After hours.
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ralphm
I wouldn't do it planary
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linuxwolfwaves adios
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Fritzy
ciao
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MattJ
:(
ralphm
MattJ: welcome anyway
MattJ
Thanks :)
MattJwas out and didn't make it back in time
MattJ
Someone needs to write a decent MUC-capable Android client
stpeter
ralphm: did we receive confirmation regarding the FOSDEM stand?
ralphm
stpeter: I didn't
stpeter
ralphm: discussing FOSDEM in xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join
stpeter
hmm ok
stpeterchecks his email
ralphm
stpeter: I'm unsure now if we applied
stpeter
um, ok, perhaps I left that for you and you left that for me
ralphm
stpeter: possible. we suck :-(
ralphm
stpeter: I do regret I didn't check that, though
stpeter
ralphm: it's ok
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stpeter
do we have a Council meeting planned for next week?