Kev!agendaappend XEP-0237: Roster Versioning
Accept version 1.2?
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaup -6
Kanchil+Kev: 0) Fini.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
Kev!agendaup -1
Kanchil+Kev: 0) Fini.
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dwd!agenda
dwdOh. It's not here.
dwdgives up and reads the scrollback instead.
KevIt is here, it just won't listen to you
Kev!agenda
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Header Extensions Negotiation
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtp-hdrext.html
Accept as XEP?
4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Feedback Negotiation
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtcp-fb.html
Accept as XEP?
5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html
Accept as XEP?
6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning
Accept version 1.2?
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
7) Date of next meeting
8) Any other business
Fini
dwdInteresting. I don't see it...
KevAre you looking at the moderators?
dwdYes. Probably it's just that I really need to update my server to a recent build. :-)
dwdOh, either that or I got desynched at some point.
KevCould be.
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stpeterah, from my perspective today's Council meeting is shifted forward an hour -- I think European countries go forward on March 26, right?
KevSounds right for the UK.
stpetergreat, I get to lose two hours this year because I'll be in Prague then
KevI was aware the US wasn't in sync with the UK (is it even in sync with itself?), that's why I warned everyone last week :)
stpeterplus I lose that hour the night I arrive -- fun :)
stpeterah, the glamour of international travel
stpetercrawls back under his rock to concentrate on document reviews for tomorrow's IESG telechat
KevEnjoy :)
stpeterKev: BTW I noticed http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar in the room subject -- perhaps I should delete that page or redirect it to http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/
stpeterset the topic toXMPP Council Room | http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/
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KevOne hour.
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KevFor those wondering about timezones :)
linuxwolf(-:
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stpeterhi Ralph and Fritzy!
Fritzyhowdy
KevRight, enough time to graba sammich :)
linuxwolf!agenda
linuxwolfKanchil+ is so capricious
stpetermaybe Kanchil ain't feeling so plus today
Kev!agenda
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Header Extensions Negotiation
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtp-hdrext.html
Accept as XEP?
4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Feedback Negotiation
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtcp-fb.html
Accept as XEP?
5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html
Accept as XEP?
6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning
Accept version 1.2?
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
7) Date of next meeting
8) Any other business
Fini
KevSeems good to me :)
stpeter:P
KevI do have a patch to make that command "anyone" instead of "owner", but haven't deployed it.
dwdI never volunteer. I might assign a staff member, though.
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ralphmwhich looks horrible
Fritzyhaha, there you go
linuxwolfmaybe the council can volunteer dwd
linuxwolf(-:
dwdI can delegate to an underling. :-)
ralphmminion, is the term
stpeterI didn't realize dwd had minions
stpeterheh
KevOh, well, that's one way of wrapping SDP, I suppose.
linuxwolfor peon
dwdstpeter, Henchmen.
FritzyI have authenticated linuxwolf's identity by his backwards smile
linuxwolf(-;
KevOk, moving on then.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html
Accept as XEP?
linuxwolfoof
Fritzyso, I have a concern
linuxwolfthat was a hard hard read
KevThis one has enough problems that I'm tempted to -1 it.
dwdI read most of that one. At least the first 270 pages.
KevLet me find them.
Fritzyusing pubsub to send commands (actuators in this case) is a mis-use.
MattJhas left
linuxwolfagreed
KevFritzy: Actually, that's one thing that I'm not *too* worried about.
linuxwolfthe structuring is awkward…and the differences in timestamping..and ....
dwdFritzy, Erm... Perhaps. Queueing commands that should be processed by available actuators seems like a non-misuse.
KevThe semantics seem to fit.
ralphmI never considered solving this problem domain so generically
stpeterdwd: I'll volunteer you for the IESG, then you'll find out about reading long documents...
Fritzyreally, this spec could be watered down to a payload schema and some basic intro.
linuxwolfis surprised stpeter's desk has not collapsed from the weight of printed I-Ds
KevI had general XEPpish concerns. The XSD should be at the end, not upfront. The use cases shouldn't be duplicated.
KevQuibbles like SHOULDs for naming, with UUIDs ,and _data/_meta.
KevWondering why it advertises iPhones particularly.
dwdKev, Also there was some redundant text, like the repeated use cases.
stpeterKev: right, and the timestamp stuff etc.
Fritzydwd: subtle
KevExtensibility should probably be through namespaced children, not through generic name/value pairs.
ralphmfor one thing I'd assume using URIs for defining types
dwdFritzy, In a brickesque manner.
KevFritzy: From the department of redundancy department.
linuxwolfit seems like something that could be split up
KevThe examples aren't actually protocol examples, so there's no easy way of following what actually happens.
dwdPersonally I shuddered a bit at the bit where you specify the SI prefix.
KevI realised after reading that I hadn't noticed a namespace anywhere.
Fritzythere is almost no protocol here
Fritzyit is just a payload schema
Fritzywith some naming convention advice
stpeterralphm's point is a good one -- do we need such a generic approach? (and have other standards groups defined such an approach already so that we can reuse their schema?)
ralphmdwd: that too, I'd expect a numeric exponent
KevFritzy: Yes, but that's not a good reason not to have a couple of example stanzas, just so you can see what's happening.
KevIMHO.
Fritzybut yeah, I really dislike the idea of sending commands over pubsub -- especially the way they are.
stpeteron the plus side, it does use "atto", "zepto", and "yocto" ;-)
linuxwolfthe few examples I think I see are partial protocol
Kevstpeter: Yes, I was wondering if that was a plus side when I read it :)
linuxwolfstpeter: yeah, I didn't see that as a plus (-:
Kevlinuxwolf: Yeah, but not whole stanzas, and not (I think) namespaced.
linuxwolfdefinitely not namespaces
linuxwolfs/namespaces/namespaced/
KevWhich makes this invalid to implement, even if you read through all the pages.
ralphmstpeter: tradionally, we've defined very application specific protocols, formats
stpeterralphm: right
ralphme.g. we used our own geo/address stuff instead of horribly long specs
Fritzyyeah, I'm not opposed to this being a XEP
ralphmand defined mappings, where needed
KevI don't know, this could be cleaned up, without significant underlying changes probably, so maybe I shouldn't block it.
dwdOne thing I did like is that none of the protocol actually defined anything new - this can be done, as I understand things, with a generic XEP-0060 service.
KevI don't object to the approach, I object to the document.
FritzyThey should use ad-hoc commands for commands.
linuxwolfheh
KevSo I'm +/-0
Fritzyand Matt earns another $.25
ralphmdwd: we have multiple "payload format" specs, maybe this should be one
stpeterBTW, I've been talking of late with a number of "smart grid" / "smart energy" folks and OASIS is defining a whole raft of payload formats, which we could send over XMPP instead of their current default (which is web services)
linuxwolfFritzy: tell hildjj he owes me $0.25
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Kevstpeter: Excellent.
Fritzyralphm: agreed
Fritzystpeter: I've talked to some of those types too... but it's been about a year.
linuxwolfsounds like we should link this XEP's authors with those folks
ralphmI'm still not convinced it should be defined at the XSF, though
stpeter(and in fact a number of people in the smart grid space are already using XMPP)
KevOk, so, what does everyone think at this stage? I'm +-0
linuxwolf-0
stpeterhey, no +/- voting :P
Kev-0 then :p
linuxwolfthat's the ticket!
Fritzysqrt(-1)
linuxwolfFritzy has to be irrational
FritzyI think this should be redrafted as an informational spec.
Fritzybut perhaps...
KevFritzy: Are you vetoing or not vetoing? (And ralphm the same)
Fritzythinking... give me a second
ralphm-0
FritzyI don't want to discourage them from resubmitting, but I think they should resubmit.
FritzyI don't think this should go into experimental.
Fritzynot in the standards track
KevSo that's a veto, then?
linuxwolfso that's -1?
Fritzyyeah, -1
KevOk, ta.
stpeterunits="celcius"?
ralphmoh, -1 then
ralphm:-D
Fritzyunits=votes
ralphmobviously that should be Kelvin
Kevralphm: I'm to assume that's flippant, yes?
ralphmKev: yeah
KevFritzy: You'll need to write up an explanation to standards@, with why it's vetod, and what the path forward is then :)
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning
Accept version 1.2?
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
Kev+1
linuxwolf+1
FritzyKev, will do
MattJ+1 :)
linuxwolfwhoa
KevHe's there!
KevKinda.
ralphm+1
MattJYeah, kinda
Fritzy+1
MattJIn a busy office (that isn't mine), but I managed to get them to set me up with a network connection
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 7) Moving carbons forward.
FritzyI'm in a castle.
linuxwolfheh
linuxwolfok, so
linuxwolfI'm hearing of lots of interest, and we've had a modicum of list discuss
Kevlinuxwolf: I have changes I want to make to this, that depend upon MattJ's as-yet-unsubmitted stuff.
linuxwolfKev: right
KevSo I propose that Matt submits http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/forwarding.html
linuxwolfI'm agreed, and ready to make the edits…once I have something to reference
Fritzylooks up Modicum.
KevI update Carbons.
KevOr you do :)
KevThen we can advance it :)
MattJSure
linuxwolfI'm happy to update it
linuxwolfit == message carbons
ralphmso what is that the council needs to do now?
Kevralphm: Council, nothing. Council members (Matt/Matt) need to do stuff :)
linuxwolfcajole Matthew into submitting forwarding (-:
KevWith MattJ first.
MattJYeah ok... perhaps I can set aside some time on Saturday
MattJI've been having lots of discussions that I need to incorporate
linuxwolf/nod
KevMattJ: Oh, changes to this?
linuxwolfI have some security concerns with as currently defined, but will wait until you have the update
MattJreads Kev's changes to recall
linuxwolfs/with as/with it as/
stpeterin time for next week's meeting I hope to review XEP-0065 one more time and perhaps request a vote on the revisions
Kevstpeter: Ok, great.
stpeter(trying to finish off the file transfer stuff)
linuxwolfooo…I'm just about down with a first draft BCP on resource locking
linuxwolf(finally)
KevGreat.
MattJ65? I need to update my implementation for that
KevSo, we're done with this, I think.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 8) Date of next meeting
KevNext Wednesday 1600 GMT?
MattJKev, the lacking thing in MAM/forwarding is specifying an archive-unique id for the message
FritzyI'm good with that. +1
MattJ+1 for next week
linuxwolfsure
KevMattJ: I thought that'd go in MAM, but it can go in forwarding I guess. That makes sense.
stpeterMattJ: please have a look at http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0065-1.8.html and http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0065/diff/1.7/vs/1.8rc3 :)
MattJstpeter, thanks
MattJI also wanted to implement the Jingle IBB stuff at the same time
MattJCurrently Verse only does Jingle+proxy65
KevOk.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 9) Any other business
KevAnything else?
MattJNay
Fritzy0
linuxwolfworld peace?
Kevlinuxwolf: Thanks for volunteering.
Fritzywhirled peas
linuxwolfI'd just nuke'em all
ralphmFritzy: peashake?
stpetercalendar updated
KevOk, then I guess we're done.
linuxwolfhumus?
Kevstpeter: Thanks.
MattJThanks stpeter
KevI'll do minutes tomorrowish.
KevI think we're done then
Fritzyrad
KevThanks all
Fritzythanks
Kevbangs the gavel
linuxwolfwaits fwding
stpeterhas had no time to work on an April 1 spec, maybe next year...
Kev!agendaup -10
Kanchil+Kev: -1) Fini.
MattJKev, FTR I'm happy with the decision on sensor-over-XMPP, but I'll look at the Jingle stuff later
linuxwolfadios all
KevMattJ: Ok, thanks.
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stpeterlikes Kev's 30-minute meeting philosophy
MattJ:)
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stpeteroh yay, another round of AUTH48 review just arrived in my inbox
stpeterhttp://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc6121-diff.html in case you're curious :)