stpeterI just processed the forwarding proposal, too
Kev!agendaappend http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding.html
Accept as XEP?
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kevstpeter: So I saw :)
MattJThanks :)
KevIndeed, murky.
stpeteralso, I received a bug report on the XEP-0198 schema so I processed that just now
Florobhas joined
linuxwolfcutting the submission awfully close (-:
waqashas joined
stpeterheh
stpetercould be considered next week or week after
MattJIt's a small XEP!
MattJBut really, I don't mind :)
linuxwolf"I don't know if I can consider it at this late stage…"
KevIt is a small XEP, and Peter announced that Council would vote today, so I have to put it on the agenda :)
linuxwolfj/k… (-:
stpeterI haven't looked at how the new http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding.html differs from the old http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding-delivery.html and http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding-request.html
stpeterbrb
Kevstpeter: It's just an encapsulation format (unlike forwarding-request) to be used in other XEPs (like the upcoming Message Archive Management), and it's a straightforward complete encapsulation, unlike forwarding-deliver.
linuxwolfmmmm….competing specs!
linuxwolfKev: and I have yet another BCP I'd like to propose
KevI have people working on the 'back yard' at the moment, so I'm sorry if I have to vanish at an inopportune moment for a couple of minutes.
Kevlinuxwolf: Good. You have 9 minutes.
MattJHey, that's not fair
linuxwolf(optional) version info via caps URL
linuxwolfMattJ: do you see me presenting an actual spec? (-:
MattJlinuxwolf, thankfully no, I want to hold the record for shortest submission->vote->acceptance for at least a short time :)
linuxwolfin that case, I might just have to defer acceptance… (-:<
MattJYou wouldn't :(
linuxwolfis feeling snarky
KevI hope snarky is over-age, then.
linuxwolfMattJ: use of reverse smileys may dissuade me from delay
MattJ☺
Kev(-:<
stpeteraha, I see what you're after in http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding.html -- that's quite straightforward
Florob😸
stpeterthe old specs were about stanza forwarding a la .forward
KevRight.
KevSo e.g. carbons should use this format.
KevAs ideal, should the ad-hoc for forwarding unread messages.
KevAs should 136bis
stpeter+1 to 136bis
linuxwolfwell, carbons could use the older forwarding specs, too
MattJ136bis is on the way... I know because one of the few remaining todo items is "choose a title" :)
stpeterI was mentioning just yesterday how we need to de-ian-ize certain specs like 136
linuxwolfbut I prefer the form from Messers WIld and Smith
stpeter(mentioning to linuxwolf that is)
KevMatt's approach is to deny 136 ever existing. :)
linuxwolflol
KevWhich suits me fine.
MattJIt's not like it's seen wide adoption (and it's not hard to see why)
MattJI'm mostly excited about the new protocol simply because finally people might implement archiving
linuxwolfmaybe
linuxwolf(-:
stpeterI just invited Fritzy
MattJI'd love it to become a more mainstream feature - it's a really common request from users
fritzyhas joined
stpeter:)
stpeterhi Nathan!
linuxwolfit definitely is
KevMattJ: Well, I want it in Swift, at least. Especially when used with the rest of the multi-resource stuff.
MattJThat, and "I want my conversations to appear in all my clients"
stpeterno sign of Mr. Meijer
fritzyHowdy
KevI have to AFK for a moment, I'll be back within 2mins or so.
stpeterMattJ: forwarding is a really common request, or history?
linuxwolfhistory
linuxwolf(logging, auditing, caching, ....)
MattJstpeter, history
stpeternod
stpeterjust checking
MattJForwarding would be a nice addition to clients in itself, but I suspect users are just going to continue with their copying and their pasting :)
KevRight.
KevLet's start :)
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: -9) Fini.
Kev!agendaup 10
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
linuxwolfhere
MattJHere
fritzyhowdy
fritzyI mean here
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 2) Agenda bashing
linuxwolfrequest to talk about caps
linuxwolf)(see above)
KevIs that a real item or AOB? :)
linuxwolfit can be an AOB
KevOk.
KevAnyone else?
fritzynossir
stpeterit's hard to bash an agenda that we can't see :)
MattJNope
MattJGah, brb 60 sec
fritzywe're blind?
Kevstpeter: Well, I sent it out earlier in the week.
KevPlus the item you added today :)
KevBut sure
Kev!agenda
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) XEP-0065: Accept version 1.8?
4) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/resource-locking.html
Accept as XEP?
5) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding.html
Accept as XEP?
6) Date of next meeting
7) Any other business
Fini
linuxwolfone could !agenda
linuxwolfheh
stpetermany thanks
remkohas joined
stpeterseems fine to me
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 3) XEP-0065: Accept version 1.8?
KevI haven't reviewed the diff. I'll do so and on-list it up.
fritzyme neither
KevI'll also wait for MattJ for a moment before moving on.
linuxwolfand neither have I
stpeterthe diff is hard to read, I find
KevDoes anyone object to waiting for a moment for Matt to catch up?
stpeterfine by me
linuxwolf(defeaning silience)
linuxwolf/sigh
waqaschooses not to object
fritzyI'm easy
linuxwolfI've got too many docs to write today to be typoing
MattJSorry, back
Kev!agendaup 0
Kanchil+Kev: 3) XEP-0065: Accept version 1.8?
KevMattJ: ^
MattJI have it open, I haven't finished reviewing it, so I'll post on-list too
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 4) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/resource-locking.html
Accept as XEP?
KevI don't object.
KevI'm not entirely convinced by each of the details, but I don't object :)
fritzy+1
linuxwolf+1, obviously (-:
MattJI don't object either, but I have some small feedback I'll post to standards@ when it's published
KevSpecifically, I think it should always lock when receiving a new message, rather than maybe locking and maybe unlocking.
stpeterBTW the most up-to-date diff for 65 is http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0065/diff/1.7/vs/1.8rc4
KevI'm also not sure that <gone/> justifies an unlock, but I'm less worried about that.
stpeter(but it's close to unreadable)
linuxwolfKev: to be fair, this is based on 10+ experience (-:
KevI'm happy to not really worry about this, as I think the later multi-client XEP solves all problems ;)
linuxwolf(well, not specifically with <gone/> itself, but the entire concept)
linuxwolfwe shall see (-:
KevThis is *almost* what we're doing in Swift.
KevApart from not bothering with gone yet, and rebinding instead of unbinding on a new message.
KevAnyway.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 5) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/forwarding.html
Accept as XEP?
Kev+1 :)
linuxwolfhmmm
KevThe background for this:
KevMatt's got a new archiving spec, there's carbons, there's an ad-hoc for forwarding messages.
KevIt'd be good to have a common format for the forwarded messages in each of these cases.
KevThus this spec
linuxwolf+1 actually
fritzy+1
linuxwolfI think I still have some security concerns, but I haven't exactly had a lot of time to read it (-:
Kevlinuxwolf: It's a format rather than a protocol.
stpeterlinuxwolf: sure, the interaction with signing and encryption might be "interesting"
KevSo I think the security concerns belong to the protocol using the format, but I could be persuaded otherwise.
KevMattJ: Your vote? :)
linuxwolfKev: technically, it's a protocol extension format
linuxwolf(-:
fritzydoes this technically change the jabber:client ns?
Kevfritzy: Of course not.
fritzyallowing another <message /> child?
MattJfritzy, it does not, why?
Kevjabber:client says nothing about the number of message children.
MattJplus it's a child of a child
fritzyright, that's not what I meant
MattJof another namespace
MattJso another schema (forwarding) applies
stpeterhttp://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3922 already had <presence/> within <presence/> (but a different namespace)
MattJAIUI
MattJKev, +1 surprise, surprise! :)
fritzyOh, you're right MattJ.
KevExcellent.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 6) Date of next meeting
KevOk, so, daylight savings change.
MattJNext week suits me
linuxwolfheh
KevSo I propose next Wednesday at 1500GMT.
fritzyWed 1600 Kevin Time. If he's in an unusual timezone for him, so help us all.
linuxwolfnotes that some of us already went through a TZ change
stpeternotes that he'll go through the time change again in Prague on Sunday morning
Kevlinuxwolf: Indeed. That's why I noted just before the US started changing that we weren't shifting Council yet :)
MattJ1500GMT? Why the change?
KevMattJ: So it remains 4PM UK time.
MattJI never change my clocks for DST :)
stpeterheehee
stpetergood for you
linuxwolfMattJ: that explains a lot (-:
MattJHeh
stpeterI just use the sundial in my back yard
MattJOk, I'm happy with 1500GMT next week
KevIs everyone happy with this?
stpeterso 15:00 GMT?
fritzysure
MattJor to use the sundial in stpeter's back yard
stpeterheh
stpeteredits ./council/events.xml
linuxwolffine either way
Kevstpeter: Thanks.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 7) Any other business
linuxwolfok
Kevlinuxwolf !
stpeterit's doubtful that I'll attend next week's meeting
Steffen Larsenhas joined
fritzyok
linuxwolfso, I'd like to propose a caps URL format recommendation, if clients are interested in reporting version/platform info
stpeterlet's see, I'll be in the CORE WG session at that time
Kevstpeter: Enjoy Prague :)
stpeterI shall, thanks :)
stpeteranyway
stpeterlinuxwolf?
linuxwolfis slightly jealous
linuxwolfoh yes, so
stpeterwe need CSN in these meetings :)
Kevstpeter: I said that last week.
linuxwolfRT: linuxwolf: so, I'd like to propose a caps URL format recommendation, if clients are interested in reporting version/platform info
Kevlinuxwolf: Right, I'm waiting for your next line after that :)
MattJlinuxwolf, I don't understand, please continue
stpeter(calendar updated)
linuxwolfhold on…shooing away IRL trolls
stpeterheehee
stpeterisn't in the office today, so it's not my fault
MattJGrab a piece of chalk and draw a circle around your desk
linuxwolfok, so the idea is to inconspicuously indicate the version/platform via "query parameters" to the caps node URL, assuming a client sends a URL (per recommendations)
stpeteris favor of just about anything that kills off iq:version
MattJlinuxwolf, why not just file a bug with the relevant clients?
MattJSay "it would be really nice if you included the version and platform in your caps url"
linuxwolfwell, it's hard to file a bug if there's not defined (recommended) format
KevI don't think I have any particular objections to this, I'd have to sit down with 115 and the new spec and be sure there's no unfortunate interactions.
linuxwolfand I likely would…it would be nice for us to agree to a general format
KevSo...bring on the spec :)
linuxwolfwell…so with the 115 problems
MattJI don't see why we need to define such a format, it's not for interop and I don't think anyone is going to enforce it
linuxwolfdo we want a separate spec, or an implementation detail within 115 (as we fix 115)
KevMattJ: You can say the same about iq:version :)
linuxwolfMattJ: It actually is for interop
MattJKev, I bet someone, somewhere, has used iq:version for interop
Kevlinuxwolf: I *think* a sidenote in 115, but I don't feel strongly.
linuxwolfiq:version needs to DIAG (-:
linuxwolfI can go either way
linuxwolffixing 115 is not a small task
KevI don't think I know DIAG. What's 'G'?
linuxwolfgah
KevAh.
linuxwolfDIAF
linuxwolfGulag?
KevNo, I like DIA Gah
linuxwolflol...literally
linuxwolfok
KevAnyway, I think we're vaguely done with this are we?
fritzythere you go
linuxwolfso, I (or some minion) can writeup a tiny XEP about it
Kevlinuxwolf: Sure.
linuxwolfI don't know if I want to tackle fixing hashes at the same time we add this note
MattJSounds like a plan
stpeterah, to have minions
fritzythat'd be nice
KevSo
linuxwolftechnically, my minions are loaned to me
Kev!agendaup 0
Kanchil+Kev: 7) Any other business
linuxwolf/fini
fritzy!done
fritzyor wait, is that not-done?
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 8) Fini.
KevThanks all :)
Kevbangs the gavel
linuxwolfadios
Kev!agendaup -8
Kanchil+Kev: 0) Fini.
MattJWow, on the dot
Kev!agendaclear
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
linuxwolfgoes off to read a dictionary, hopefully soaking in better spelling mojo
stpeterreturns to his review of OAuth spe s
stpeterspecs even
linuxwolffeels less horrible now…thanks stpeter (-:
stpeter:P
linuxwolfhas left
fritzycio
fritzyhas left
stpeterwho is the cio?
bearthat's an italian typo - he meant ciao
stpeterI figured :)
stpeteralthough my Czech friends spell it "čau" :)