stpetergood morning, afternoon, or evening as the case may be
KevAfternoon Peter.
MattJAfternoon
Fritzyhas joined
Kev!agendaclear
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaappend Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport
Method) to Draft
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-March/024267.html
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaappend Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with
Certificates) with the interim version 1.1rc5:
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0178-1.1.html
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0178/diff/1.0/vs/1.1rc5
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kev!agenda
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport
Method) to Draft
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-March/024267.html
4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with
Certificates) with the interim version 1.1rc5:
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0178-1.1.html
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0178/diff/1.0/vs/1.1rc5
5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
8) Date of next meeting
9) Any other business
Fini
Kev!agendaup 0
Kanchil+Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
Kev!agendaup -10
Kanchil+Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
KevHrmph.
KevSilly Lua.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
linuxwolfhas joined
linuxwolf/whew
FritzyI apologize for my absence last week.
stpeter:)
remkohas joined
KevRight, I guess we should think about starting.
linuxwolfis thinking
Kanchil+has left
Kanchil+has joined
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kanchil+Kev: Done.
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport
4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with
5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
8) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
9) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
10) Date of next meeting
11) Any other business
Fini
Kanchil+Kev: 0) Fini.
Kanchil+Kev: -10) Fini.
Kanchil+Kev: -9) Fini.
KevYay, fixed
Kev!agendaup 9
Kanchil+Kev: 0) Fini.
KevLet's start!
KevI don't see Ralph online
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 1) Roll call
FritzyYay Lua!
linuxwolfpresente
Fritzyhere
stpeterincreases the window size
stpeterack, no sign of Ralph
emchohas joined
KevMattJ: There?
MattJPresent
linuxwolfyay
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 2) Agenda bashing
Fritzywhoah, lag
FritzyNone
MattJNo bashing
MattJ(yet)
stpeterheh
stpeterI don't think I have any bashing
linuxwolfnay
KevGood enough
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport
linuxwolfI will vote onlist
KevIt's not clear that we've had *any* feedback on the last call.
Kev+to me
MattJNo, I didn't see any
MattJPlus I wanted to implement this myself, but haven't yet :)
FritzyI'll vote on list
KevWhich vaguely implies that no-one thinks it's needed to fill gaps etc.
KevI can't believe this is true.
MattJMe neither, I think it's just a case that implementations aren't ready enough yet
linuxwolfnods
linuxwolfI do hear desire for it…might just be too new still?
linuxwolf/shrug
stpeteras I recall there might be implementations in Pidgin and Psi
Fritzyoh really
KevOh.
stpeternot sure if those are released
KevI didn't know it was in Psi.
MattJThere might be an implementation in Gajim, but I'm not 100% sure
remkoIBB is, not jingle
remkothe spec is fairly trivial to be fair ;-)
stpeterwell, someone poked me on-list about a Psi plugin or patch for Jingle file transfer
stpeterhe wanted to know when the specs would be done :)
stpeteranyway we can round up the implementers
remkoanyway, there's a typo in it, but i think it has been caught before :)
Fritzyperhaps we should contact the authors and extend last call?
KevIt'd be good to have *some* last call feedback before voting on this.
remkoi implemented part of it, but the summer will bring more :)
KevFritzy: Right.
stpeterwe need to decide if we are going to require implementations, and implementation feedback, before advancing things to Draft
Kevstpeter: Given that people have implemented this, it'd be good for them to speak up.
MattJI didn't know that was up for decision :)
remkostpeter: did you have the invalid xml typo in example 1 already?
stpeterMattJ: it seems to be an implicit criterion here
MattJstpeter, it begs the question of the purpose of last call if we don't really need any feedback
remkois there a reason why this xep is in last call btw?
stpeterhmph I thought I fixed that
remkoshouldn't it be in last call together with all other jingle FT specs?
stpeterremko: because we're trying to get the whole jingle file transfer suite to Draft
Kevstpeter: It's not that it's required to have implementations - it's that Last Call gave absolutely no feedback.
remkoand given that this xep only adds some jingle sprinkles on top of an existing spec, i personally would suggest waiting for implementation feedback :)
stpeterand doing them all at the same time would have been too much for people to review
stpeterremko: chicken and egg
stpeter"oh I can't implement that, it's only experimental"
stpeterhowever
remkostpeter: right, makes sense. But the state of the ohter xeps is not up to date, which means nobody will implement this or be able to give feedback without being consistent with each other at least.
stpeterI'm happy to wait
KevI'd like to extend the last call, anyway
stpeterI mean, it's not like there is a huge hurry
stpeterXMPP is dying anyway :)
MattJSo let's update XEP-0001 for Final as the only state :)
linuxwolfKev: +1 to that
MattJ+1 to an extension... 2 weeks?
linuxwolfheh
Fritzy>_<
KevMattJ: Seems reasonable to me.
stpeterI can reach out to various people who have implemented this or have been thinking about it
Tobiashas left
MattJstpeter, thanks, that would help
Kevstpeter: That would be good, please.
stpetersame with the other jingle ft specs
linuxwolf/nod
KevOk, moving on then.
remkostpeter: i looked at them, i can give you feedback too ;-)
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with
MattJwith <it's a mystery>? :)
KevSo broken :(
KevSee the agenda sent to the mailing list :)
linuxwolfCertificates) with the interim version 1.1rc
linuxwolf5
linuxwolf(-:
KevI'm voting onlist on this anyway.
linuxwolfditto
MattJThis, as dialback, is in my queue for thorough review
FritzyI need to take a look
MattJDialback I'm halfway through, but not completed yet
MattJI forgot how long it was :)
KevOk. Votes onlist in the next couple of weeks then.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
KevFritzy: As I recall, you were going to post your objections to-list for the authors to address, and I don't *remember* seeing that.
MattJThat's a very good question
stpeterI think the Council needs to re-review XEP-0220, given the recent discussions and the fact that one of the co-authors said my handling of it was "ridiculous"
FritzyKev: You're right.
stpeterso I would propose a re-vote on the latest version (0.9)
Kevstpeter: OK.
MattJIf we're going for a re-vote, Kev/stpeter please put me down as -1 on the last vote rather than DNV :)
linuxwolf(-:
MattJBecause I do think it needs further review
MattJAnyway, sensors...
linuxwolfugh
Fritzyseems like a suggested practices XEP to me except for the parts that aren't. I'm -1, and I'll post about it on the list (I failed to last time)
KevSo I'm not blocking sensors, I think.
KevOk.
linuxwolfgood, I can be −0 (-:
MattJI never thought I'd see a non-humorous XEP with a section titled "Transducer values"
KevPlease remember that the deal is that if you're -1 you have to post with justifications and potential remedies within a fortnight of doing so.
linuxwolfMattJ: At least it doesn't have "timey-wimey bits"
FritzyKev: right
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
Fritzyor a "bugger' log level
KevI'm similarly not blocking this, although there seems to be list discussion as to whether it's the right aproach, it seems to be *an* approach that could be not broken.
MattJ+1 to sensors, +1 to coin
MattJYep, and I'm glad to see the discussion, but I see no reason this can't be an accepted XEP
linuxwolfnot blocking either
MattJConsidering the number of DMUC XEPs we have :)
linuxwolfhaha
Fritzy+1
linuxwolfok, +1 too
KevI largely think of Experimental as being "Not obviously the wrong approach"
KevWhich brings us on to...
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
MattJ:D
linuxwolf-1
MattJ-1
linuxwolfand I'll post some reasons why
linuxwolflike "does not meet the first requirement"
MattJCan I re-post Dave's?
linuxwolfMattJ: why not (-:
waqashas joined
linuxwolfthis looks like it was taken directly from an XML.com article I read awhile back
MattJlinuxwolf, people read xml.com?
linuxwolfwhich noted the deficiencies of this encoding
KevI'm -1 as well, although I'll let linuxwolf post to the list first and add to it if I have anything else on top.
linuxwolfMattJ: occasionally, for the lulz (-:
stpeterMattJ: it's on my list to harmonize those DMUC things, but I won't get to it until June at this rate (first I need to do i18n stuff and that's taking me a while...)
MattJlinuxwolf, I thought it died a decade ago :)
linuxwolfMattJ: just before XMPP died (-:
MattJstpeter, right, but again it needs to see implementation I think
linuxwolfstpeter: I think we should concentrate on i18n more than DMUC...personally
FritzyI'm 0
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 8) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 9) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 10) Date of next meeting
KevThere we go.
MattJNext week is fine I think
KevNext Wed, same bat time, same bat channel?
linuxwolfshould be fine for me, also
Fritzysure
KevPeter's not here then, hink.
linuxwolfcorrect
linuxwolfhe'll be on a plane back from Amsterdam (-:
stpeterlinuxwolf: agreed on DMUC
stpeterright, I won't be available next Wed
stpeterbut you guys can handle things :)
KevRighty ho.
Kev!agendaup
Kanchil+Kev: 11) Any other business
MattJI was going to mention dialback, but I'll do so on-list
MattJAnyway, fippo isn't here for me to stand behind
stpeteras I said, I think the Council needs to re-vote on 220 0.9
linuxwolfyeah, dialback … I need to read it again, and I'm going to pester some locals to read it with me
remkohas left
stpeterperhaps it is indeed ridiculous
MattJIt doesn't seem to be so far :)
stpeterbut 0.8 really bothered me because it was so confusing
linuxwolfI would rather the author not be confused by their own spec
linuxwolf(-:
MattJI think the improvements are good overall
stpeterwe needed to go in one direction or another, and perhaps fippo didn't like the direction I took
KevSo we've got got anything for AOB?
stpeterhis statements were a bit cryptic to me
KevBeyond adding 220 for next week, which is in my TODO.
stpeternone here
MattJstpeter, he's given me similar cryptic statements this morning that I need to decipher :)
linuxwolfKev: it doesn't sound like it…but we do have an agenda item for next week (-: (XEP-0220)
linuxwolfgah…meatspace lag
waqashas left
stpeterper remko's comments, I think it might be useful to update XEP-0234 before pushing forward with the rest of the Jingle FT suite
KevRighty ho. Are we dones then?
linuxwolf(T −0:02)
stpeterremko and I were just chatting via PM, and he noted that 234 is wildly out of sync with 260/261
linuxwolfhrm
stpeterI have 234 printed and will review it on the plane or in an airport sometime in the next week
linuxwolf/nod
waqashas joined
stpeterso we could do 260, 261, and 234 together
stpeterthat makes sense to me
stpeternot in a huge hurry :)
MattJ:)
linuxwolfsounds good to me
KevI think that's a "we're done".
KevSo
stpeteryep
linuxwolf"are we done yet?"
Kevbangs the gavel
stpeterdone
KevThanks all.
linuxwolf(-:
linuxwolfadios
KevI'll sort out minutes tomorrow or so.
linuxwolfrushes to next meeting
stpeter"are we *almost* done yet"? ;-)
MattJI'm still trying to figure out what "meatspace lag" entails
linuxwolfI'll get comments about json by Friday
stpeterMattJ: IRL interrupt?
MattJPossibly :)
stpeterthat's my interpretation
stpeterOK
linuxwolfMattJ: "engineer needs coffee badly"
MattJHeh
linuxwolfand some interuptions
stpeterI need to pack for my trip
linuxwolfanyway…I'm late! (-:
stpeterI'll be in and out, but mostly out
linuxwolfhas left
Fritzythanks guys
Fritzyhas left
stpeterI still need to read all the position papers for http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/ -- I suppose I'll be doing that on the plane today :)