XMPP Council - 2011-07-20

  1. Neustradamus

    Where will be XMPP/Jabber ? http://www.numerama.com/magazine/19348-la-mort-d-internet-se-confirme-un-peu-plus-a-bruxelles.html

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  8. MattJ

    Morning all

  9. stpeter


  10. stpeter

    MattJ: still morning for you, I take it? :)

  11. MattJ

    Morning :)

  12. MattJ

    Is there a meeting today? It seemed like there wouldn't be, but now we have discussion items (?) but no agenda posted

  13. stpeter

    ask the boss :)

  14. MattJ

    I have a IRL meeting starting shortly, trying to figure if I need to try and reschedule

  15. stpeter


  16. MattJ

    (if that's possible)

  17. MattJ

    Kev, ?

  18. MattJ

    Ok, I need to dash - my apologies if the meeting does go ahead, I'll read the discussion and post on-list (hopefully today, but today is kind of hectic, so possibly tomorrow)

  19. stpeter

    MattJ: no worries!

  20. Kev

    I'm here.

  21. Kev

    Yes, we have a Council.

  22. Kev

    There wasn't any suggestion on the list that there wouldn't be, AFAICR.

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  25. ralphm

    I'm here

  26. linuxwolf

    T - 0:04?

  27. Kev


  28. linuxwolf

    agenda? (I hate surprises, and not sure I followed everything correctly yesterday)

  29. stpeter

    MattJ had to attend an IRL meeting so it seems he won't be here

  30. linuxwolf

    stupid IRL

  31. stpeter

    yeah, who needs it :P

  32. Kev

    http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024722.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024723.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024625.html

  33. linuxwolf


  34. linuxwolf is getting confuzzled already today

  35. Kev


  36. Kev

    Oh, I have another agenda item, too. Will add to the AOB.

  37. Kev

    1) Roll call.

  38. Kev

    I be here.

  39. Kev

    MattJ sends apologies.

  40. linuxwolf


  41. linuxwolf

    I think

  42. ralphm


  43. Kev

    No sign of Fritzy online.

  44. ralphm

    hmm, linuxwolf reminds me of fixing Gajim's list of styles I wish to accept

  45. Kev

    2) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html Accept as XEP

  46. linuxwolf

    looks like we reached quorum.../whew

  47. Kev

    I'm not sure exactly what situations you'd need this in, but that doesn't seem like a reason to block Experimentalness.

  48. linuxwolf

    no objections from me

  49. stpeter


  50. ralphm

    funny how we need a protocol to send whitespace around, but sure

  51. linuxwolf

    Kev: trying to explain on list, there are networks where this kind of negotiation is helpful

  52. stpeter

    I admit that I haven't read all the messages on the list

  53. linuxwolf

    ralphm: it's those stupid mobiles and things (-:

  54. Kev

    linuxwolf: Right - *some* sort of keepalive is useful - it's not clear to me that including this in 198 negotiation or such isn't better.

  55. ralphm

    linuxwolf: I understand the purpose, but I just thought it was funny

  56. Kev

    But I'm not objecting to putting this out there.

  57. stpeter

    ralphm: it is :)

  58. linuxwolf

    Kev: that's a possibility…this individual at least wanted to get their thoughts out there

  59. ralphm

    it is great troll food

  60. Kev

    And I think, in fact, that the Right thing to do if you're missing a whitespace you're expecting, and thus are tempted to d/c the client, is to think "Oh, golly, I'm waiting for a whing and don't have one. I'll send a XEP-0199 ping and if I don't get a response terminate the connection".

  61. Kev

    Rather than relying purely on the whitespace.

  62. linuxwolf


  63. stpeter

    gosh I saw that JPEG just yesterday :)

  64. ralphm


  65. Kev

    So, we've got these three Last Calls that finished.

  66. linuxwolf

    Kev: yeah, I don't know I agree with all of the strategies there…that, or wait for <n> "things"

  67. linuxwolf


  68. Kev

    I'm assuming Peter would like us to vote on them going to Draft, so I guess we can do that next week.

  69. Kev

    And I'll agendarisice them.

  70. Kev

    stpeter: Yes?

  71. linuxwolf

    well, the week after

  72. stpeter

    Kev: seems appropriate

  73. linuxwolf


  74. Kev

    linuxwolf: ?

  75. linuxwolf

    IETF is next week

  76. stpeter

    linuxwolf and I won't be here next week

  77. stpeter


  78. stpeter


  79. Kev

    Ah, right.

  80. ralphm

    so this is the: 'go give them a final read' cue

  81. stpeter figures out what time it will be then and what sessions will be happening

  82. linuxwolf

    still trying to get my slides together, too

  83. Kev

    ralphm: "Go give them a Draft read" :)

  84. linuxwolf


  85. ralphm


  86. Kev

    Ok, so, date of next meeting - fortnight today?

  87. linuxwolf


  88. stpeter

    I suppose I'll be in the CORE WG meeting at that time

  89. Kev

    Ok, I'll take that as OK from Ralph too :)

  90. Kev

    So, Any Other Busyness?

  91. linuxwolf


  92. Kev

    I've got an item, for a change.

  93. Kev

    Anyone else?

  94. linuxwolf


  95. stpeter

    none here

  96. Kev

    OK - so.

  97. Kev

    This fun fun thread on aborting the XSF because Board and Council are a bunch of layabouts.

  98. linuxwolf

    ha yeah

  99. linuxwolf

    maybe we should lynch them

  100. stpeter

    Kev: is that how you interpreted what I said? because that was not the intent

  101. ralphm


  102. Kev

    stpeter: No, but I think it was a subtext of the replies.

  103. linuxwolf

    stpeter: I think it was really the comments of others that lead us there

  104. linuxwolf


  105. Kev

    Where 'subtext' ~= 'The Mails"

  106. stpeter

    well, the Board and Council are not a bunch of layabouts!

  107. Kev

    Anyway, so, we should probably try and address this in some way.

  108. ralphm

    well, I guess the busy bees can start their own club. It's not like the XSF needs to be the One Ring

  109. Kev

    Even if 'this' is a perception.

  110. stpeter

    ralphm: :)

  111. linuxwolf

    ralphm: ¿viva le revolution?

  112. Kev

    I was thinking that one way of doing this might be for the outgoing Chair (oh boy I love making work for myself) for both Board and Council towards the end of term to produce a report of things like attendance through the term, missed votes, etc.

  113. ralphm

    more like: if you want change you can do three things: 1) whine, 2) apply for board/council and do (more?) stuff, 3) start your own club

  114. stpeter

    one little thing that would help, I think, is for the Board and Council chairs to send agendas for their meetings ~24 hours before each meeting to members@ and standards@ -- that might encourage more participation

  115. ralphm

    I wonder if it is more 1 than anything else

  116. Kev

    ralphm: I don't agree with that assesment.

  117. linuxwolf

    stpeter: that would help

  118. Kev

    It implies that the only people doing worthwhile things in the XSF are Board and Council, and I would dearly like to believe that to not be the case.

  119. Kev

    stpeter: We could do. Although this is less of an issue for Council than for Board.

  120. stpeter

    Kev: agreed

  121. ralphm

    Kev: agreed, but you mentioned that those two have all the lazy guys

  122. Kev

    In as much as anyone who cares about the Council agendas is welcome to either subscribe to or read the archives for the list where they're announced (and little else).

  123. Kev

    This isn't true of Board, so I'd certainly be in favour of advance agendas being made available there.

  124. stpeter

    Kev: true dat

  125. Kev

    I will send a mail to members@ and standards@ so people realise they can read the Council list.

  126. linuxwolf


  127. Kev

    ralphm: Oh, no, I don't think so. I think everyone's lazy :)

  128. ralphm

    I'm also not sure if the (lack of) activity of the board is really something that needs to be discussed in the council.

  129. linuxwolf

    it could also help if council members could take a more active role in discussions

  130. linuxwolf

    Kev's already there, and I think I'm a distant second….

  131. ralphm

    as for the council and standardization in general, I too wonder how much more needs to be standardized. Over the last 10+ years we've made a whole lot of building blocks, and it isn't odd that we have most of them now.

  132. Kev

    ralphm: It doesn't hurt, since both Council and Board were accused of inactivity, to look at the bigger picture. I agree that Council can't mandate direction to Board.

  133. stpeter

    ralphm: yes, I think that's a lot of what is going on!

  134. Kev

    OK, so I'm taking from this that apart from me mailing to make sure people know they can find the Council agendas in advance (even if they're vague like this week - sorry about that, been a *little* busy) there aren't any current actions.

  135. Kev

    Any other busyness?

  136. stpeter

    none here

  137. ralphm

    I do agree that I don't participate much in the mailinglists anymore

  138. ralphm

    this might be because of what is actually being discussed

  139. ralphm

    the signal/noise ratio

  140. linuxwolf

    ralphm: I've had that problem (-

  141. Kev

    I *try* to participate on the lists - I figure that's one of the responsibilities of Council.

  142. ralphm

    I'd like to know if anyone shares this feeling

  143. stpeter

    ralphm: again, perhaps in large measure the topics aren't as "core" as they once were because we've defined so many extensions already

  144. ralphm

    and if we are actually developing standards there or that it is mostly editorial comments and 'helpdesk'

  145. linuxwolf

    for standards@, I don't think there's much noise there, personally

  146. ralphm

    I don't want to trash everyone on those lists, though, to be clear

  147. Kev

    There's still a reasonable amount of protocol discussion going on, and I don't think there's a lot of noise.

  148. Kev

    I grant I don't tend to pay attention to juser or the suchlike, but standards@ seems ok still.

  149. linuxwolf

    I'm not sure I'm still subscribed to juser… /-:

  150. Kev

    linuxwolf: I don't think this is a bad thing :)

  151. Kev


  152. stpeter

    no AOB here :)

  153. linuxwolf

    none from me

  154. Kev

    I think we've worn this out for the moment, we can readdressif stuff happens on list.

  155. ralphm


  156. linuxwolf


  157. Kev

    I'll provide minutes at some point soonish. I've poked Fritzy for his pending votishness.

  158. Kev

    Thanks all.

  159. Kev bangs the gavel.

  160. linuxwolf


  161. stpeter

    thanks, guys!

  162. MattJ

    Heh, just made it back from the meeting, I'll catch up here when I have a moment

  163. Kev

    Ta. Only one action for you - the Whing spec.

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  165. MattJ

    Can't we call them whips instead?

  166. MattJ

    Prosody already has a mod_smacks...

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