XMPP Council - 2011-07-20

Where will be XMPP/Jabber ? http://www.numerama.com/magazine/19348-la-mort-d-internet-se-confirme-un-peu-plus-a-bruxelles.html

Morning all

greetings

MattJ: still morning for you, I take it? :)

Morning :)

Is there a meeting today? It seemed like there wouldn't be, but now we have discussion items (?) but no agenda posted

ask the boss :)

I have a IRL meeting starting shortly, trying to figure if I need to try and reschedule

aha

(if that's possible)

Kev, ?

Ok, I need to dash - my apologies if the meeting does go ahead, I'll read the discussion and post on-list (hopefully today, but today is kind of hectic, so possibly tomorrow)

MattJ: no worries!

I'm here.

Yes, we have a Council.

There wasn't any suggestion on the list that there wouldn't be, AFAICR.

I'm here

T - 0:04?

Yep.

agenda? (I hate surprises, and not sure I followed everything correctly yesterday)

MattJ had to attend an IRL meeting so it seems he won't be here

stupid IRL

yeah, who needs it :P

http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024722.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024723.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024625.html

grazie

Dingding.

Oh, I have another agenda item, too. Will add to the AOB.

1) Roll call.

I be here.

MattJ sends apologies.

presente

I think

HI

No sign of Fritzy online.

hmm, linuxwolf reminds me of fixing Gajim's list of styles I wish to accept

2) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html Accept as XEP

looks like we reached quorum.../whew

I'm not sure exactly what situations you'd need this in, but that doesn't seem like a reason to block Experimentalness.

no objections from me

Experimentality?

funny how we need a protocol to send whitespace around, but sure

Kev: trying to explain on list, there are networks where this kind of negotiation is helpful

I admit that I haven't read all the messages on the list

ralphm: it's those stupid mobiles and things (-:

linuxwolf: Right - *some* sort of keepalive is useful - it's not clear to me that including this in 198 negotiation or such isn't better.

linuxwolf: I understand the purpose, but I just thought it was funny

But I'm not objecting to putting this out there.

ralphm: it is :)

Kev: that's a possibility…this individual at least wanted to get their thoughts out there

it is great troll food

And I think, in fact, that the Right thing to do if you're missing a whitespace you're expecting, and thus are tempted to d/c the client, is to think "Oh, golly, I'm waiting for a whing and don't have one. I'll send a XEP-0199 ping and if I don't get a response terminate the connection".

Rather than relying purely on the whitespace.

http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/uploads/please-do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg

gosh I saw that JPEG just yesterday :)

#3?

So, we've got these three Last Calls that finished.

Kev: yeah, I don't know I agree with all of the strategies there…that, or wait for <n> "things"

right

I'm assuming Peter would like us to vote on them going to Draft, so I guess we can do that next week.

And I'll agendarisice them.

stpeter: Yes?

well, the week after

Kev: seems appropriate

(-:

linuxwolf: ?

IETF is next week

linuxwolf and I won't be here next week

wel

well

Ah, right.

so this is the: 'go give them a final read' cue

still trying to get my slides together, too

ralphm: "Go give them a Draft read" :)

(-:

pft

Ok, so, date of next meeting - fortnight today?

wfm

I suppose I'll be in the CORE WG meeting at that time

Ok, I'll take that as OK from Ralph too :)

So, Any Other Busyness?

(-;

I've got an item, for a change.

Anyone else?

nay

none here

OK - so.

This fun fun thread on aborting the XSF because Board and Council are a bunch of layabouts.

ha yeah

maybe we should lynch them

Kev: is that how you interpreted what I said? because that was not the intent

hehe

stpeter: No, but I think it was a subtext of the replies.

stpeter: I think it was really the comments of others that lead us there

s/us/him/

Where 'subtext' ~= 'The Mails"

well, the Board and Council are not a bunch of layabouts!

Anyway, so, we should probably try and address this in some way.

well, I guess the busy bees can start their own club. It's not like the XSF needs to be the One Ring

Even if 'this' is a perception.

ralphm: :)

ralphm: ¿viva le revolution?

I was thinking that one way of doing this might be for the outgoing Chair (oh boy I love making work for myself) for both Board and Council towards the end of term to produce a report of things like attendance through the term, missed votes, etc.

more like: if you want change you can do three things: 1) whine, 2) apply for board/council and do (more?) stuff, 3) start your own club

one little thing that would help, I think, is for the Board and Council chairs to send agendas for their meetings ~24 hours before each meeting to members@ and standards@ -- that might encourage more participation

I wonder if it is more 1 than anything else

ralphm: I don't agree with that assesment.

stpeter: that would help

It implies that the only people doing worthwhile things in the XSF are Board and Council, and I would dearly like to believe that to not be the case.

stpeter: We could do. Although this is less of an issue for Council than for Board.

Kev: agreed

Kev: agreed, but you mentioned that those two have all the lazy guys

In as much as anyone who cares about the Council agendas is welcome to either subscribe to or read the archives for the list where they're announced (and little else).

This isn't true of Board, so I'd certainly be in favour of advance agendas being made available there.

Kev: true dat

I will send a mail to members@ and standards@ so people realise they can read the Council list.

/nod

ralphm: Oh, no, I don't think so. I think everyone's lazy :)

I'm also not sure if the (lack of) activity of the board is really something that needs to be discussed in the council.

it could also help if council members could take a more active role in discussions

Kev's already there, and I think I'm a distant second….

as for the council and standardization in general, I too wonder how much more needs to be standardized. Over the last 10+ years we've made a whole lot of building blocks, and it isn't odd that we have most of them now.

ralphm: It doesn't hurt, since both Council and Board were accused of inactivity, to look at the bigger picture. I agree that Council can't mandate direction to Board.

ralphm: yes, I think that's a lot of what is going on!

OK, so I'm taking from this that apart from me mailing to make sure people know they can find the Council agendas in advance (even if they're vague like this week - sorry about that, been a *little* busy) there aren't any current actions.

Any other busyness?

none here

I do agree that I don't participate much in the mailinglists anymore

this might be because of what is actually being discussed

the signal/noise ratio

ralphm: I've had that problem (-

I *try* to participate on the lists - I figure that's one of the responsibilities of Council.

I'd like to know if anyone shares this feeling

ralphm: again, perhaps in large measure the topics aren't as "core" as they once were because we've defined so many extensions already

and if we are actually developing standards there or that it is mostly editorial comments and 'helpdesk'

for standards@, I don't think there's much noise there, personally

I don't want to trash everyone on those lists, though, to be clear

There's still a reasonable amount of protocol discussion going on, and I don't think there's a lot of noise.

I grant I don't tend to pay attention to juser or the suchlike, but standards@ seems ok still.

I'm not sure I'm still subscribed to juser… /-:

linuxwolf: I don't think this is a bad thing :)

Aaanyway.

no AOB here :)

none from me

I think we've worn this out for the moment, we can readdressif stuff happens on list.

nod

+1

I'll provide minutes at some point soonish. I've poked Fritzy for his pending votishness.

Thanks all.

grazie

thanks, guys!

Heh, just made it back from the meeting, I'll catch up here when I have a moment

Ta. Only one action for you - the Whing spec.

Can't we call them whips instead?

Prosody already has a mod_smacks...