XMPP Council - 2011-07-20

  1. Neustradamus Where will be XMPP/Jabber ? http://www.numerama.com/magazine/19348-la-mort-d-internet-se-confirme-un-peu-plus-a-bruxelles.html
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  8. MattJ Morning all
  9. stpeter greetings
  10. stpeter MattJ: still morning for you, I take it? :)
  11. MattJ Morning :)
  12. MattJ Is there a meeting today? It seemed like there wouldn't be, but now we have discussion items (?) but no agenda posted
  13. stpeter ask the boss :)
  14. MattJ I have a IRL meeting starting shortly, trying to figure if I need to try and reschedule
  15. stpeter aha
  16. MattJ (if that's possible)
  17. MattJ Kev, ?
  18. MattJ Ok, I need to dash - my apologies if the meeting does go ahead, I'll read the discussion and post on-list (hopefully today, but today is kind of hectic, so possibly tomorrow)
  19. stpeter MattJ: no worries!
  20. Kev I'm here.
  21. Kev Yes, we have a Council.
  22. Kev There wasn't any suggestion on the list that there wouldn't be, AFAICR.
  23. linuxwolf has joined
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  25. ralphm I'm here
  26. linuxwolf T - 0:04?
  27. Kev Yep.
  28. linuxwolf agenda? (I hate surprises, and not sure I followed everything correctly yesterday)
  29. stpeter MattJ had to attend an IRL meeting so it seems he won't be here
  30. linuxwolf stupid IRL
  31. stpeter yeah, who needs it :P
  32. Kev http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024722.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024723.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-June/024625.html
  33. linuxwolf grazie
  34. linuxwolf is getting confuzzled already today
  35. Kev Dingding.
  36. Kev Oh, I have another agenda item, too. Will add to the AOB.
  37. Kev 1) Roll call.
  38. Kev I be here.
  39. Kev MattJ sends apologies.
  40. linuxwolf presente
  41. linuxwolf I think
  42. ralphm HI
  43. Kev No sign of Fritzy online.
  44. ralphm hmm, linuxwolf reminds me of fixing Gajim's list of styles I wish to accept
  45. Kev 2) http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/keepalive.html Accept as XEP
  46. linuxwolf looks like we reached quorum.../whew
  47. Kev I'm not sure exactly what situations you'd need this in, but that doesn't seem like a reason to block Experimentalness.
  48. linuxwolf no objections from me
  49. stpeter Experimentality?
  50. ralphm funny how we need a protocol to send whitespace around, but sure
  51. linuxwolf Kev: trying to explain on list, there are networks where this kind of negotiation is helpful
  52. stpeter I admit that I haven't read all the messages on the list
  53. linuxwolf ralphm: it's those stupid mobiles and things (-:
  54. Kev linuxwolf: Right - *some* sort of keepalive is useful - it's not clear to me that including this in 198 negotiation or such isn't better.
  55. ralphm linuxwolf: I understand the purpose, but I just thought it was funny
  56. Kev But I'm not objecting to putting this out there.
  57. stpeter ralphm: it is :)
  58. linuxwolf Kev: that's a possibility…this individual at least wanted to get their thoughts out there
  59. ralphm it is great troll food
  60. Kev And I think, in fact, that the Right thing to do if you're missing a whitespace you're expecting, and thus are tempted to d/c the client, is to think "Oh, golly, I'm waiting for a whing and don't have one. I'll send a XEP-0199 ping and if I don't get a response terminate the connection".
  61. Kev Rather than relying purely on the whitespace.
  62. linuxwolf http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/uploads/please-do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg
  63. stpeter gosh I saw that JPEG just yesterday :)
  64. ralphm #3?
  65. Kev So, we've got these three Last Calls that finished.
  66. linuxwolf Kev: yeah, I don't know I agree with all of the strategies there…that, or wait for <n> "things"
  67. linuxwolf right
  68. Kev I'm assuming Peter would like us to vote on them going to Draft, so I guess we can do that next week.
  69. Kev And I'll agendarisice them.
  70. Kev stpeter: Yes?
  71. linuxwolf well, the week after
  72. stpeter Kev: seems appropriate
  73. linuxwolf (-:
  74. Kev linuxwolf: ?
  75. linuxwolf IETF is next week
  76. stpeter linuxwolf and I won't be here next week
  77. stpeter wel
  78. stpeter well
  79. Kev Ah, right.
  80. ralphm so this is the: 'go give them a final read' cue
  81. stpeter figures out what time it will be then and what sessions will be happening
  82. linuxwolf still trying to get my slides together, too
  83. Kev ralphm: "Go give them a Draft read" :)
  84. linuxwolf (-:
  85. ralphm pft
  86. Kev Ok, so, date of next meeting - fortnight today?
  87. linuxwolf wfm
  88. stpeter I suppose I'll be in the CORE WG meeting at that time
  89. Kev Ok, I'll take that as OK from Ralph too :)
  90. Kev So, Any Other Busyness?
  91. linuxwolf (-;
  92. Kev I've got an item, for a change.
  93. Kev Anyone else?
  94. linuxwolf nay
  95. stpeter none here
  96. Kev OK - so.
  97. Kev This fun fun thread on aborting the XSF because Board and Council are a bunch of layabouts.
  98. linuxwolf ha yeah
  99. linuxwolf maybe we should lynch them
  100. stpeter Kev: is that how you interpreted what I said? because that was not the intent
  101. ralphm hehe
  102. Kev stpeter: No, but I think it was a subtext of the replies.
  103. linuxwolf stpeter: I think it was really the comments of others that lead us there
  104. linuxwolf s/us/him/
  105. Kev Where 'subtext' ~= 'The Mails"
  106. stpeter well, the Board and Council are not a bunch of layabouts!
  107. Kev Anyway, so, we should probably try and address this in some way.
  108. ralphm well, I guess the busy bees can start their own club. It's not like the XSF needs to be the One Ring
  109. Kev Even if 'this' is a perception.
  110. stpeter ralphm: :)
  111. linuxwolf ralphm: ¿viva le revolution?
  112. Kev I was thinking that one way of doing this might be for the outgoing Chair (oh boy I love making work for myself) for both Board and Council towards the end of term to produce a report of things like attendance through the term, missed votes, etc.
  113. ralphm more like: if you want change you can do three things: 1) whine, 2) apply for board/council and do (more?) stuff, 3) start your own club
  114. stpeter one little thing that would help, I think, is for the Board and Council chairs to send agendas for their meetings ~24 hours before each meeting to members@ and standards@ -- that might encourage more participation
  115. ralphm I wonder if it is more 1 than anything else
  116. Kev ralphm: I don't agree with that assesment.
  117. linuxwolf stpeter: that would help
  118. Kev It implies that the only people doing worthwhile things in the XSF are Board and Council, and I would dearly like to believe that to not be the case.
  119. Kev stpeter: We could do. Although this is less of an issue for Council than for Board.
  120. stpeter Kev: agreed
  121. ralphm Kev: agreed, but you mentioned that those two have all the lazy guys
  122. Kev In as much as anyone who cares about the Council agendas is welcome to either subscribe to or read the archives for the list where they're announced (and little else).
  123. Kev This isn't true of Board, so I'd certainly be in favour of advance agendas being made available there.
  124. stpeter Kev: true dat
  125. Kev I will send a mail to members@ and standards@ so people realise they can read the Council list.
  126. linuxwolf /nod
  127. Kev ralphm: Oh, no, I don't think so. I think everyone's lazy :)
  128. ralphm I'm also not sure if the (lack of) activity of the board is really something that needs to be discussed in the council.
  129. linuxwolf it could also help if council members could take a more active role in discussions
  130. linuxwolf Kev's already there, and I think I'm a distant second….
  131. ralphm as for the council and standardization in general, I too wonder how much more needs to be standardized. Over the last 10+ years we've made a whole lot of building blocks, and it isn't odd that we have most of them now.
  132. Kev ralphm: It doesn't hurt, since both Council and Board were accused of inactivity, to look at the bigger picture. I agree that Council can't mandate direction to Board.
  133. stpeter ralphm: yes, I think that's a lot of what is going on!
  134. Kev OK, so I'm taking from this that apart from me mailing to make sure people know they can find the Council agendas in advance (even if they're vague like this week - sorry about that, been a *little* busy) there aren't any current actions.
  135. Kev Any other busyness?
  136. stpeter none here
  137. ralphm I do agree that I don't participate much in the mailinglists anymore
  138. ralphm this might be because of what is actually being discussed
  139. ralphm the signal/noise ratio
  140. linuxwolf ralphm: I've had that problem (-
  141. Kev I *try* to participate on the lists - I figure that's one of the responsibilities of Council.
  142. ralphm I'd like to know if anyone shares this feeling
  143. stpeter ralphm: again, perhaps in large measure the topics aren't as "core" as they once were because we've defined so many extensions already
  144. ralphm and if we are actually developing standards there or that it is mostly editorial comments and 'helpdesk'
  145. linuxwolf for standards@, I don't think there's much noise there, personally
  146. ralphm I don't want to trash everyone on those lists, though, to be clear
  147. Kev There's still a reasonable amount of protocol discussion going on, and I don't think there's a lot of noise.
  148. Kev I grant I don't tend to pay attention to juser or the suchlike, but standards@ seems ok still.
  149. linuxwolf I'm not sure I'm still subscribed to juser… /-:
  150. Kev linuxwolf: I don't think this is a bad thing :)
  151. Kev Aaanyway.
  152. stpeter no AOB here :)
  153. linuxwolf none from me
  154. Kev I think we've worn this out for the moment, we can readdressif stuff happens on list.
  155. ralphm nod
  156. linuxwolf +1
  157. Kev I'll provide minutes at some point soonish. I've poked Fritzy for his pending votishness.
  158. Kev Thanks all.
  159. Kev bangs the gavel.
  160. linuxwolf grazie
  161. stpeter thanks, guys!
  162. MattJ Heh, just made it back from the meeting, I'll catch up here when I have a moment
  163. Kev Ta. Only one action for you - the Whing spec.
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  165. MattJ Can't we call them whips instead?
  166. MattJ Prosody already has a mod_smacks...
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