XMPP Council - 2011-09-28

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14:44:37 linuxwolf T −20? just enough time to get caffeine!
14:44:43 Kev Yep.
14:49:28 stpeter gosh, the identi.ca XMPP interface just seems to be dead, eh?
14:49:49 Kev I don't know, I've not dented via XMPP for a long time.
14:50:14 stpeter I gave up denting, for the most part
14:50:25 stpeter because there's no XMPP interface any longer
14:50:33 stpeter might as well just use Twitter at that point
14:50:35 dwd I was astonished at how much more productive I became when I turned the XMPP feed off.
14:50:48 stpeter dwd: you've become productive?!?
14:51:01 dwd stpeter, More productive. Relative, not absolute.
14:51:30 dwd Reminds me, I should probably update my Board application, given I have become even more managerial as of today. :-)
14:51:47 stpeter dwd: congrats, I hope
14:52:19 dwd stpeter, As "VP Engineering (XMPP)", I need that as a Form 538/B, in triplicate.
14:54:38 dwd Mind you, no point in updating my board application if nobody else is standing. :-/
14:55:06 stpeter dwd: recruitment in progress behind the scenes
14:55:17 stpeter I'm also poking people about standing for Council
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14:55:57 Kev I'll be filling out a Council app at some point.
14:55:58 stpeter OT: I'm chatting in another tab with one of the OTR guys, and we're aiming to publish an initial Internet-Draft by the end of October
14:56:04 Kev That'd be nice.
14:56:37 Kev Get a XEP published and I imagine we'd be interested in putting support in Swift :)
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14:57:48 Kev Ouch. Kindles just got silly-cheap. So very tempting.
14:57:55 stpeter Kev: given that OTR is not an XMPP-specific technology (or even XMPP-friendly at this point, although I hope to influence its direction in that regard), I think the IETF is the right place to publish this spec
14:57:58 stpeter did they?
14:58:16 Kev stpeter: Right. I was assuming OTR would be RFCd, and then a XEP would explain how to use it for XMPP.
14:58:22 stpeter Kev: yes
14:58:25 Kev I don't much care if an RFC defines how to use it for XMPP instead.
14:58:29 stpeter Kev: or, probably
14:58:30 Kev Just that there's an implementable spec.
14:58:35 stpeter right :)
14:58:51 Kev The article I'm reading says the base Kindle just became $79.
14:59:05 Kev Had that happened a fortnight ago I'd have come home with one.
14:59:07 stpeter I do think we'd want to at least define more Jabberish ways to discover support for OTR, but that's easy
14:59:11 dwd Kev, UK prices haven't appeared to change.
14:59:19 Kev dwd: Why would they? :)
14:59:34 stpeter perhaps the price change hasn't take effect yet, still $114 at the website
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15:01:07 stpeter tries to finish an email to the hybi@ietf.org list before the Council meeting
15:03:01 MattJ You're brave
15:03:28 stpeter I'm the responsible AD so I'm trying to be responsible :)
15:04:42 Kev And ... ding.
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15:04:52 Kev So.
15:05:00 Kev 1) Roll call
15:05:01 Kev I'm here.
15:05:17 linuxwolf presente
15:05:25 ralphm and me
15:06:05 MattJ me too
15:06:11 Kev Excellents.
15:06:21 Kev 2) 258-to-Draft.
15:06:24 ralphm eh
15:06:27 ralphm agenda?
15:06:47 Kev ralphm: Mail thread was called 'Meeting 20110928'.
15:06:52 ralphm heh
15:07:06 ralphm I meant I want to bash it
15:07:13 MattJ Ha
15:07:13 ralphm adding FOSDEM to it
15:07:17 MattJ AOB? :)
15:07:22 Kev Oh. We decided some weeks ago not to bash agendas in the meetings anymore, as you can do that on list prior.
15:07:26 Kev Leave it for AOB :)
15:07:40 stpeter by "258-to-Draft" you mean "issuing a Last Call", not voting, right?
15:07:48 Kev stpeter: I do.
15:07:54 linuxwolf (-:
15:07:54 MattJ Great, I'm +1 then
15:07:58 linuxwolf +1 also
15:08:07 Kev Or, rather, I mean "The Author's requested we consider it for advancement to Draft, so we should vote on Last Calling it".
15:08:19 MattJ Security labels may become one of my favourite XEPs
15:08:40 MattJ I have favourite XEPs, wow.
15:08:46 ralphm +1
15:08:49 Kev I have a long-standing grumble about hierachies being a nuisance to represent, but I'm +1 on LCing.
15:08:56 ralphm MattJ: that took a while
15:09:03 MattJ Heh
15:09:09 ralphm Kev: nod
15:09:23 stpeter this will force me to finally read it carefully
15:09:31 linuxwolf heh
15:09:32 dwd MattJ, How can you like 258? Not even a prime number.
15:09:47 linuxwolf goes to kill a branch
15:09:52 Kev Ok.
15:09:59 Kev 3) MUC-unique.
15:10:21 MattJ Yes...
15:10:25 ralphm linuxwolf: you hate trees?
15:10:26 linuxwolf well, it's certainly started a conversation at least
15:10:42 linuxwolf ralphm: yes, and I demonstrate it by printing XEPs and RFCs
15:11:29 MattJ How about we publish it as experimental, and have people put their code where their mouth is? :)
15:11:49 linuxwolf I've no objections to accepting it
15:11:58 Kev I think I'm the last person who wanted to keep it, and I've finally accepted that it can die.
15:12:04 linuxwolf heh
15:12:05 Kev But I've no objection to accepting it.
15:12:31 MattJ It's not the end of the world if it dies, but I see no reason to when some people are in favour of keeping it
15:12:48 MattJ It's already implemented in places, so having that document would be useful regardless
15:12:52 Kev It does offer things that client-generated things don't.
15:12:53 linuxwolf /nod
15:12:57 linuxwolf eh
15:13:00 ralphm +1 on accepting MUC-unique
15:13:16 dwd FWIW, M-Link implements MUC-unique, but I don't think it needs to be in the core spec.
15:13:35 linuxwolf it would be more efficient than what a client can do by itself, but it is possible to do unique rooms with only a client
15:13:52 ralphm Although I wondered if we shouldn't just make an iq set for creating the room
15:14:06 MattJ linuxwolf, in 99.9999999999% of cases it would be less efficient than the client just making up a room name
15:14:12 linuxwolf ralphm: that boat sailed many years ago…unless we work on MUC-NG (-:
15:14:31 ralphm linuxwolf: I don't see how it would interfere with XEP-0045
15:14:36 Kev linuxwolf: It is possible to make unique rooms with only a client. MUC-Unique lets the server do more than guarantee unique room names, if it so wishes.
15:14:37 linuxwolf MattJ: slightly less efficient (-:
15:14:49 ralphm now rooms are simply created implicitly
15:14:56 Kev In any case. We've all agreed to accept it, so yay.
15:15:07 linuxwolf Kev: sure, I get that, but it's not like a client can't make the same guarantees before it displays the room GUI
15:15:08 ralphm and there would be no reason add protocol to create rooms explicitly
15:15:22 Kev 4) Date of next meeting. Peter said he wasn't around next week, I think. Do we want a meeting regardless?
15:15:24 linuxwolf I should know, I've implemented that to customers' satisfaction in the past
15:15:29 linuxwolf (-:
15:15:32 ralphm expecially if you need to do something special for creating unique ones
15:15:43 ralphm especially, too
15:15:49 MattJ I've no objection to meeting without stpeter if there's stuff to discuss
15:15:57 linuxwolf regarding next meeting, next still works for me…if we have something to do
15:15:59 stpeter right, I shan't be online then
15:16:02 MattJ if stpeter has no objection to us meeting without him, which I suspect he won't :)
15:16:08 Kev Ok, shall we plan for next week, and skip it if we lack things that need action.
15:16:12 linuxwolf stpeter: staycation afficianado!
15:16:12 ralphm +1
15:16:14 stpeter MattJ: no objections here
15:16:14 MattJ +1
15:16:17 linuxwolf +1
15:16:23 Kev SBTSBC, then.
15:16:25 Kev 6) AOB.
15:16:26 Kev FOSDEM!
15:16:37 stpeter I'll add the meeting to the calendar
15:16:41 Kev Thanks.
15:17:32 ralphm I'll request a room
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15:18:09 MattJ Thanks
15:19:04 Kev Thanks.
15:19:08 Kev Anything else?
15:19:13 linuxwolf nay from me
15:19:18 MattJ Me neither
15:19:23 ralphm Who's planning on going"?
15:19:39 dwd To FOSDEM? I will be.
15:20:06 linuxwolf I'll have to see
15:20:25 Kev I imagine I'll be, short of fluishness.
15:20:36 MattJ I'll be going
15:20:49 stpeter not sure yet
15:20:52 MattJ Kev, it wasn't the same without you... :)
15:21:08 linuxwolf (-:
15:21:09 Kev I'm sure. 'Not the same' covers a multitude of sins.
15:21:14 Kev Ok, I think we're done then.
15:21:15 MattJ Heh
15:21:17 Kev Thanks all.
15:21:22 linuxwolf grazie
15:21:24 Kev bangs the gavel.
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15:21:35 linuxwolf waves
15:21:56 ralphm rides the waves
15:22:03 MattJ Thanks
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15:26:26 Kev Re: New Kindles.
15:26:32 Kev Sems they've now hit the .com and .co.uk websites.
15:26:37 Kev So .com now offers for $79
15:26:45 Kev and .co.uk now offers for £89.
15:27:24 dwd Indeed... I wonder how much the 3G version is.
15:27:38 Kev £149
15:27:46 MattJ Spotify Premium UK: £10, Spotify Premium US: $10
15:27:46 Kev According to the homepage.
15:27:55 Kev MattJ: Yes, that's fairly normal.
15:28:11 Kev Costing *more* in absolute GBP than USD is quite impressive, though.
15:28:28 stpeter yep, http://www.amazon.com/ has been updated here too
15:29:16 dwd Oh, I see - this is a new keyboard-less kindle.
15:29:27 stpeter which, the Touch?
15:29:33 Kev Both.
15:29:36 stpeter finishes his email to the hybi wg
15:29:37 Kev Or all three, rather.
15:30:41 MattJ FWIW a Kindle died on me last night
15:30:50 MattJ to make matters worse, it wasn't mine
15:31:08 stpeter erk
15:31:10 linuxwolf /-:
15:31:14 MattJ The screen has failed somehow, half of it is frozen and won't update
15:31:19 linuxwolf my nookColor is still going strong
15:31:29 MattJ I prefer e-ink :)
15:31:38 stpeter the books I read never experience screen failure
15:31:41 linuxwolf MattJ: I learned to give up and love the LCD (-:
15:31:53 linuxwolf it works well enough for me on the bus and at bus stops
15:31:53 MattJ stpeter, that's the first thing someone said to me :)
15:31:56 linuxwolf which are largely outdoors
15:31:58 stpeter :P
15:32:16 MattJ Unfortunately the books I wanted to take with me to the US wouldn't fit in my suitcase
15:32:30 stpeter MattJ: yeah, there is that
15:32:40 stpeter thinks of his upcoming trip to Taipei
15:32:52 linuxwolf /nod
15:45:01 stpeter email sent, tweet posted :P
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16:18:45 stpeter aha, if you want the cheaper prices on the Kindles then you must agree to receive "special offer" screensavers -- advertising FTW
16:19:05 MattJ Ha
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18:26:07 ralphm no such thing as a free lunch
18:43:30 stpeter TANSTAAFL, baby!
18:46:20 linuxwolf more bikesheds!
18:47:31 stpeter well it looks like I'll be around for next week's Council meeting, change of PTO plans...
18:47:37 linuxwolf oh no
18:47:39 ralphm let's paint it red
18:47:41 stpeter bbiaf
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