MattJWhen they perform in London I'm going to buy tickets
ralphmDo they have T-shirts with all venues and their dates, yet?
stpeterralphm: for those who've attended all the meetings, yes
MattJThey wouldn't have t-shirts large enough
stpeterMattJ: has a meeting in London been announced?
MattJstpeter, not that I'm aware of
stpeterhttp://www.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.html
stpeternope
waqashas joined
KevRighty.
KevShall we have a meeting then? :)
Tobiasyup
Kev1) Roll call
KevI'm here.
linuxwolfJeebus
linuxwolfher
linuxwolfhere even
MattJHair
MattJ*Here
Kevralphm: ?
stpeternotes that linuxwolf is supposed to be on vacation right now
KevBad linuxwolf, bad.
linuxwolfnotes that XSF doesn't feel quite like work work
MattJ!
linuxwolfkids decided to start pestering me just as Kev bangs the start gavel
Kevpokes Ralph.
ralphmhere
KevExcellent.
Kev2) Selection of a new Chair.
MattJETOOMANYMEETINGS
KevI'm happy to do this again, or happy for someone else to.
KevAnyone fancy cat herding?
MattJI'm happy for you to if you're happy to
linuxwolfditto
Tobiassame here
stpeteranother year of the Kev dictatorship?!? ;-)
MattJFor the record if I was chair, the 30 minute meeting rule would be on the block
MattJSo it's best Kev stays
linuxwolfheh
Kevstpeter: Benevolent.
stpeterKev: natch :)
linuxwolfmostly benevolent (-;
Kevlinuxwolf: Benevolent when it's in my interests.
linuxwolfheh
ralphm+1 for kev
ralphmalso, I am experiencing a lot of lag
Kevrubs his hands with evil glee
stpeterheehee
linuxwolfcan I change my vote? (-;
Kevralphm: That's ok, you've done the important bit now, you can vote for everything else on-list :D
ralphmhehe
KevRight.
Kev3) XEP-0068
Accept new version?
KevThis was the x- stuff in http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0068-1.2.html, as I recall
stpeteryes
stpeterdo you guys need the diff again? I posted it to the council@ list a while back
KevI don't, thanks.
MattJI do :)
MattJLooking for it
KevSo, I was reading this earlier, and while I'm not opposed to dropping x-, especially if those smart IETF guys want us to, I'd like some more guidance in -68 about what to do instead, I think, to avoid conflicts.
stpetersure, I'd be fine with adding those to -68 as well
stpeterthere's not big hurry
KevI wonder if updating to match xdash is premature, too.
stpeterI just don't to publish an RFC about how x- is bad while -68 says the opposite :)
Kevstpeter: Duplication isn't strictly necessary, but some sort of onward pointer seems to be.
Kev(Beyond the proposed "Don't use x- because xdash says not to)
stpeterKev: we could certainly wait at least until after the WGLC in the APPSAWG @ IETF
MattJ"SHOULD identify a convention to allow local or implementation-specific extensions, and reserve delimeters for such uses as needed."
KevExcellent. My first vote of term is a -1. I feel good.
ralphmwhat linuxwolf said
ralphmalternatively, we have existing 'scoping' with pubsub# and muc#
ralphmdamn lag
linuxwolf(-:
MattJOk, idea... a note in -0068 about xdash potentially being the future?
KevSo, agreement to hold off until a) WGLC and b) some suggestions for alternatives in a new 1.2?
linuxwolfKev: +1
KevI'm happy with a note saying "xdash looks like the future" right now, if people would rather that, yes.
linuxwolf(to your suggestions)
MattJThat way we acknowledge the xdash movement, without committing to it
stpeterWFM
TobiasKev, sounds reasonable..so yes
MattJWe need a "council note" element in XEPML :)
stpeterheh
KevMattJ: I've suggested that before, I think.
linuxwolfthat's not a bad idea, actually
MattJI think you have
stpeternotes that some RFCs contain "IESG Note" sections
Kev(I say "I think", but what I really mean is "I'm very sure I have")
linuxwolfthat sounds like an AOB item to me (-:
KevGolly, time is getting on.
MattJHeh
bearhas joined
KevSo, I think we've discussed this to death.
Kev4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/dmuc3.html
Accept as Experimental
linuxwolfah, less controversial items
MattJHeh
Kevlinuxwolf: Possibly :)
linuxwolf</sarcasm>
KevSo, my reading of this was (a few weeks ago) that it's a fourth DMUC spec, using pretty much the approach of the third (FMUC) with some uglies.
KevAnd that, given FMUC's mine, I'll pretty much defer to the rest of Council on whether to accept or not.
MattJWould you highlight the uglies (in an email if many)?
MattJI think I'll vote on list after reviewing both specs
KevThat'd mean me re-reading. Let me scan now, I've not re-read this week.
linuxwolfcan you provide me a link to fmuc?
MattJThe scary thing is that none of these XEPs are the way I would do it :P
Kevhttp://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html
linuxwolfMattJ: the best thing about standards is there's so many of them
ralphmMattJ: submit a dmuc4 (we started at 0?)
linuxwolfgrazie
MattJThere are two, mine, and everyone else's
KevMattJ: You may be solving a different problem - I think the drive for DMUC/FMUC at the moment is largely for slightly specialist deployments.
linuxwolfoh, FMUC expires next week
KevAnyway, dmuc3 does things like sending rosters in a new namespace, instead of re-using the current MUC notation, or the iq:roster notation.
Tobiasi'd also be nice if new XEP on this topic would have a short section on comparison against the already existing approaches of nearly the same thing
MattJKev, indeed, most of these are designed around different (but similar) requirements
KevIt does message forwarding not using the message forwarding spec.
MattJBy dropping some requirements you can vastly increase simplicity, which is where the divide comes from I think
linuxwolfKev: I think that's because this may be documenting existing work … prior to your msg-fwd work
stpeterhas been thinking about distributed chat again recently but hasn't had time to update his DMUC spec
Kevlinuxwolf: Oh. That wasn't my understanding, I hadn't realised that.
ralphmlinuxwolfnod
Kevralphm / linuxwolf: Do you know how long Trident have had this working for?
linuxwolfI may be misinformed also
KevAnyway, this is looking like it's moving to a discussion on list, doesn't it.
KevSo we've got two AOB items.
Kev5) Date of next meeting.
linuxwolfit does … although ...
KevDoes this time next week work for everyone?
linuxwolfgah, slow down there TEx
stpeterWFM
TobiasWFM
stpeterheh
Kevlinuxwolf: Only 9minutes left!
linuxwolf-1 to next week
MattJwfm
ralphmKev I don't know, the document reads like an existing thing
linuxwolfI'm in China
linuxwolfagain
KevEveryone ok for the same time in a fortnight?
MattJlinuxwolf, council meetings too democratic to join from China?
MattJwfm
linuxwolfI think I can make it in two weeks … I'd have to compare the times
linuxwolfare we still looking at 1700 UTC?
ralphmI can do next week. I am in San Francisco from 6-15 dec
stpeterpoor linuxwolf will be flying across the big lake again soon
linuxwolf/sigh
Tobiasin two weeks works for me too
linuxwolfand I won't have any status until the way back
KevWill we have anything to discuss next week to make it worth having a meeting with linuxwolf voting onlist?
KevOr shall we do the week after and have Ralph vote onlist?
stpeterIMHO, week after
Kev(Or leave it until we have something to discuss)
linuxwolfI'm pretty sure that I'll be in the air for next week
linuxwolfmy trip is 11/29 to 12/09
KevBy the time Ralph's back you're looking at 21st Dec, which is pretty close to the Christmas break.
ralphmKev: sure. I might be able to attend, but it'll be my first full day at Mochi, so probably no.
stpeterwill get busy on XEPs again now that he has completed his penultimate IETF meeting with IESG responsibilities
KevOk, so, I propose we leave it until we have something to discuss, and then have a meeting with 4 members and one onlist, whenever that is.
MattJstpeter, congratulations :)
linuxwolfsounds good to me
MattJKev, +1
linuxwolfping?
Kevpong?
linuxwolfwow … burst of lag
TobiasKev, +1
KevOk, then.
Kev(I'm assuming Ralph isn't opposed to not having meetings he can't make)
stpeterheh
Kev6) Any other business
KevCouncil note in XEPs and GSoC from Peter.
MattJYes, I haven't congratulated Tobias yet :)
linuxwolfI think 1700 UTC is 0100 CST
ralphm I am not opposed to that
Tobiasisn't GSoC something for the board?
KevTobias: Council typically is heavily involved.
KevBy which we really mean Kevin is typically heavily involved, and he's on Council :)
ralphmhaha
TobiasKev, ahh..okay... -)
linuxwolfheh
KevBut Council are part of voting on projects.
stpeterwill have time to help with GSoC in 2012
Kevstpeter: What did you want to discuss?
linuxwolfstpeter: 4 more months? (-:
ralphmlinuxwolfisn't that perfect timing for when you get back from karaoke?
stpeterKev: I had a tickler item on my calendar from months and months ago for us to get coordinated about GSoC earlier in the cycle this time
linuxwolfralphm: heh, we'll have to see
stpeterKev: we can discuss at a future meeting
linuxwolfconsider us tickled?
stpeteryep
KevI was intending to tickle when Google announced GSoC '12 (assuming they do)
stpeterI'll bring it up again at the next meeting
KevSo, the other thing was Council notes in XEPs.
linuxwolf+1 from me
stpeterKev: I think we decided we wanted to think about it earlier
ralphmFor the record, we have a FOSDEM devroom
linuxwolfyay
KevIs there anything for us to discuss? Does someone want to volunteer to update the stylesheet?
ralphmand will be talking about it in 1.5h
Kevralphm: Yes, that's great thanks. Sorry I can't make that meeting.
linuxwolfI can take a look at it, but no firm commit from me yet
Tobiasand the XSL for the PDF publishing part... :)
KevLovely, action item for linuxwolf.
KevAnd for Tobias.
KevAnything else?
stpeterKev: that can be the first section of the document, doesn't need a special XML element, I think
ralphmor is it 20:00 UTC?
Kevstpeter: WFM.
MattJ20:00
linuxwolfyeah, right when I have a doc appt
ralphmmy train is pulling into the station
ralphmbang!
KevOk, I think we're done.
linuxwolftalking about me becoming a cyborg
KevThanks all :)
Kevdoes the first gavel banging of the new term.
KevI'll send out minutes as per usual, delayed as per usual :)
ralphmyay
stpeterwoot!
linuxwolf/nod
stpeterthanks, guys
KevSpeaking of that, are the room logs working again?
KevNo.
MattJThey were broken?
linuxwolfI think any meeting over the next two weeks will be difficult for me … so we'll see
KevHave been since the upgrade, yes.
linuxwolfugh
stpeterwanders off to do some PTO things during his paid time off, but will be back in time for the FOSDEM chat
Tobiask...see you guys later or so...heading home now
MattJI'll take a look at that too then
KevThanks Tobias.
KevThanks MattJ.
stpeterI hadn't realized the logs were gone
KevHTTP 500.
linuxwolfeek
KevI only care because that's what I use for pulling the minutes off.
KevI should really try out this live minute taking thing Board do.