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MattJ
The IETF is like one long roadshow
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ralphm
Heh
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MattJ
When they perform in London I'm going to buy tickets
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ralphm
Do they have T-shirts with all venues and their dates, yet?
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stpeter
ralphm: for those who've attended all the meetings, yes
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MattJ
They wouldn't have t-shirts large enough
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stpeter
MattJ: has a meeting in London been announced?
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MattJ
stpeter, not that I'm aware of
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stpeter
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.html
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stpeter
nope
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Kev
Righty.
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Kev
Shall we have a meeting then? :)
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Tobias
yup
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Kev
1) Roll call
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Kev
I'm here.
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linuxwolf
Jeebus
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linuxwolf
her
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linuxwolf
here even
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MattJ
Hair
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MattJ
*Here
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Kev
ralphm: ?
- stpeter notes that linuxwolf is supposed to be on vacation right now
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Kev
Bad linuxwolf, bad.
- linuxwolf notes that XSF doesn't feel quite like work work
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MattJ
!
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linuxwolf
kids decided to start pestering me just as Kev bangs the start gavel
- Kev pokes Ralph.
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ralphm
here
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Kev
Excellent.
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Kev
2) Selection of a new Chair.
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MattJ
ETOOMANYMEETINGS
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Kev
I'm happy to do this again, or happy for someone else to.
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Kev
Anyone fancy cat herding?
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MattJ
I'm happy for you to if you're happy to
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linuxwolf
ditto
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Tobias
same here
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stpeter
another year of the Kev dictatorship?!? ;-)
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MattJ
For the record if I was chair, the 30 minute meeting rule would be on the block
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MattJ
So it's best Kev stays
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linuxwolf
heh
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Kev
stpeter: Benevolent.
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stpeter
Kev: natch :)
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linuxwolf
mostly benevolent (-;
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Kev
linuxwolf: Benevolent when it's in my interests.
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linuxwolf
heh
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ralphm
+1 for kev
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ralphm
also, I am experiencing a lot of lag
- Kev rubs his hands with evil glee
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stpeter
heehee
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linuxwolf
can I change my vote? (-;
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Kev
ralphm: That's ok, you've done the important bit now, you can vote for everything else on-list :D
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ralphm
hehe
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Kev
Right.
-
Kev
3) XEP-0068 Accept new version?
-
Kev
This was the x- stuff in http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0068-1.2.html, as I recall
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stpeter
yes
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stpeter
do you guys need the diff again? I posted it to the council@ list a while back
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Kev
I don't, thanks.
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MattJ
I do :)
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MattJ
Looking for it
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Kev
So, I was reading this earlier, and while I'm not opposed to dropping x-, especially if those smart IETF guys want us to, I'd like some more guidance in -68 about what to do instead, I think, to avoid conflicts.
-
MattJ
and... where's HAL, hmm
-
stpeter
http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0068/diff/1.1/vs/1.2pre1
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MattJ
HAL says this one: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0068/diff/1.1/vs/1.2pre1
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MattJ
Oh, you're faster than he is :)
-
MattJ
Ah yes, memory jogged
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Kev
stpeter: I was wondering about maybe something like suggesting people use project-specific (or similar) names.
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Kev
So as to reduce the chance of conflicts.
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linuxwolf
at one point, I thought we'd suggested using Clark-notation with your own namespace
-
Kev
Or is that, too, in opposition to the X-Dash
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linuxwolf
e.g. {http://example.com/protocol/foo}myfield
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stpeter
there are some recommendations in the xdash I-D
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Kev
stpeter: Right, but not in -68.
-
stpeter
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-xdash
-
stpeter
sure, I'd be fine with adding those to -68 as well
-
stpeter
there's not big hurry
-
Kev
I wonder if updating to match xdash is premature, too.
-
stpeter
I just don't to publish an RFC about how x- is bad while -68 says the opposite :)
-
Kev
stpeter: Duplication isn't strictly necessary, but some sort of onward pointer seems to be.
-
Kev
(Beyond the proposed "Don't use x- because xdash says not to)
-
stpeter
Kev: we could certainly wait at least until after the WGLC in the APPSAWG @ IETF
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MattJ
"SHOULD identify a convention to allow local or implementation-specific extensions, and reserve delimeters for such uses as needed."
-
Kev
Excellent. My first vote of term is a -1. I feel good.
-
ralphm
what linuxwolf said
-
ralphm
alternatively, we have existing 'scoping' with pubsub# and muc#
-
ralphm
damn lag
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
MattJ
Ok, idea... a note in -0068 about xdash potentially being the future?
-
Kev
So, agreement to hold off until a) WGLC and b) some suggestions for alternatives in a new 1.2?
-
linuxwolf
Kev: +1
-
Kev
I'm happy with a note saying "xdash looks like the future" right now, if people would rather that, yes.
-
linuxwolf
(to your suggestions)
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MattJ
That way we acknowledge the xdash movement, without committing to it
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stpeter
WFM
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Tobias
Kev, sounds reasonable..so yes
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MattJ
We need a "council note" element in XEPML :)
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kev
MattJ: I've suggested that before, I think.
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linuxwolf
that's not a bad idea, actually
-
MattJ
I think you have
- stpeter notes that some RFCs contain "IESG Note" sections
-
Kev
(I say "I think", but what I really mean is "I'm very sure I have")
-
linuxwolf
that sounds like an AOB item to me (-:
-
Kev
Golly, time is getting on.
-
MattJ
Heh
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Kev
So, I think we've discussed this to death.
-
Kev
4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/dmuc3.html Accept as Experimental
-
linuxwolf
ah, less controversial items
-
MattJ
Heh
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Possibly :)
-
linuxwolf
</sarcasm>
-
Kev
So, my reading of this was (a few weeks ago) that it's a fourth DMUC spec, using pretty much the approach of the third (FMUC) with some uglies.
-
Kev
And that, given FMUC's mine, I'll pretty much defer to the rest of Council on whether to accept or not.
-
MattJ
Would you highlight the uglies (in an email if many)?
-
MattJ
I think I'll vote on list after reviewing both specs
-
Kev
That'd mean me re-reading. Let me scan now, I've not re-read this week.
-
linuxwolf
can you provide me a link to fmuc?
-
MattJ
The scary thing is that none of these XEPs are the way I would do it :P
-
Kev
http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html
-
linuxwolf
MattJ: the best thing about standards is there's so many of them
-
ralphm
MattJ: submit a dmuc4 (we started at 0?)
-
linuxwolf
grazie
-
MattJ
There are two, mine, and everyone else's
-
Kev
MattJ: You may be solving a different problem - I think the drive for DMUC/FMUC at the moment is largely for slightly specialist deployments.
-
linuxwolf
oh, FMUC expires next week
-
Kev
Anyway, dmuc3 does things like sending rosters in a new namespace, instead of re-using the current MUC notation, or the iq:roster notation.
-
Tobias
i'd also be nice if new XEP on this topic would have a short section on comparison against the already existing approaches of nearly the same thing
-
MattJ
Kev, indeed, most of these are designed around different (but similar) requirements
-
Kev
It does message forwarding not using the message forwarding spec.
-
MattJ
By dropping some requirements you can vastly increase simplicity, which is where the divide comes from I think
-
linuxwolf
Kev: I think that's because this may be documenting existing work … prior to your msg-fwd work
- stpeter has been thinking about distributed chat again recently but hasn't had time to update his DMUC spec
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Oh. That wasn't my understanding, I hadn't realised that.
-
ralphm
linuxwolfnod
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Kev
ralphm / linuxwolf: Do you know how long Trident have had this working for?
-
linuxwolf
I may be misinformed also
-
Kev
Anyway, this is looking like it's moving to a discussion on list, doesn't it.
-
Kev
So we've got two AOB items.
-
Kev
5) Date of next meeting.
-
linuxwolf
it does … although ...
-
Kev
Does this time next week work for everyone?
-
linuxwolf
gah, slow down there TEx
-
stpeter
WFM
-
Tobias
WFM
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Only 9minutes left!
-
linuxwolf
-1 to next week
-
MattJ
wfm
-
ralphm
Kev I don't know, the document reads like an existing thing
-
linuxwolf
I'm in China
-
linuxwolf
again
-
Kev
Everyone ok for the same time in a fortnight?
-
MattJ
linuxwolf, council meetings too democratic to join from China?
-
MattJ
wfm
-
linuxwolf
I think I can make it in two weeks … I'd have to compare the times
-
linuxwolf
are we still looking at 1700 UTC?
-
ralphm
I can do next week. I am in San Francisco from 6-15 dec
-
stpeter
poor linuxwolf will be flying across the big lake again soon
-
linuxwolf
/sigh
-
Tobias
in two weeks works for me too
-
linuxwolf
and I won't have any status until the way back
-
Kev
Will we have anything to discuss next week to make it worth having a meeting with linuxwolf voting onlist?
-
Kev
Or shall we do the week after and have Ralph vote onlist?
-
stpeter
IMHO, week after
-
Kev
(Or leave it until we have something to discuss)
-
linuxwolf
I'm pretty sure that I'll be in the air for next week
-
linuxwolf
my trip is 11/29 to 12/09
-
Kev
By the time Ralph's back you're looking at 21st Dec, which is pretty close to the Christmas break.
-
ralphm
Kev: sure. I might be able to attend, but it'll be my first full day at Mochi, so probably no.
- stpeter will get busy on XEPs again now that he has completed his penultimate IETF meeting with IESG responsibilities
-
Kev
Ok, so, I propose we leave it until we have something to discuss, and then have a meeting with 4 members and one onlist, whenever that is.
-
MattJ
stpeter, congratulations :)
-
linuxwolf
sounds good to me
-
MattJ
Kev, +1
-
linuxwolf
ping?
-
Kev
pong?
-
linuxwolf
wow … burst of lag
-
Tobias
Kev, +1
-
Kev
Ok, then.
-
Kev
(I'm assuming Ralph isn't opposed to not having meetings he can't make)
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kev
6) Any other business
-
Kev
Council note in XEPs and GSoC from Peter.
-
MattJ
Yes, I haven't congratulated Tobias yet :)
-
linuxwolf
I think 1700 UTC is 0100 CST
-
ralphm
I am not opposed to that
-
Tobias
isn't GSoC something for the board?
-
Kev
Tobias: Council typically is heavily involved.
-
Kev
By which we really mean Kevin is typically heavily involved, and he's on Council :)
-
ralphm
haha
-
Tobias
Kev, ahh..okay... -)
-
linuxwolf
heh
-
Kev
But Council are part of voting on projects.
- stpeter will have time to help with GSoC in 2012
-
Kev
stpeter: What did you want to discuss?
-
linuxwolf
stpeter: 4 more months? (-:
-
ralphm
linuxwolfisn't that perfect timing for when you get back from karaoke?
-
stpeter
Kev: I had a tickler item on my calendar from months and months ago for us to get coordinated about GSoC earlier in the cycle this time
-
linuxwolf
ralphm: heh, we'll have to see
-
stpeter
Kev: we can discuss at a future meeting
-
linuxwolf
consider us tickled?
-
stpeter
yep
-
Kev
I was intending to tickle when Google announced GSoC '12 (assuming they do)
-
stpeter
I'll bring it up again at the next meeting
-
Kev
So, the other thing was Council notes in XEPs.
-
linuxwolf
+1 from me
-
stpeter
Kev: I think we decided we wanted to think about it earlier
-
ralphm
For the record, we have a FOSDEM devroom
-
linuxwolf
yay
-
Kev
Is there anything for us to discuss? Does someone want to volunteer to update the stylesheet?
-
ralphm
and will be talking about it in 1.5h
-
Kev
ralphm: Yes, that's great thanks. Sorry I can't make that meeting.
-
linuxwolf
I can take a look at it, but no firm commit from me yet
-
Tobias
and the XSL for the PDF publishing part... :)
-
Kev
Lovely, action item for linuxwolf.
-
Kev
And for Tobias.
-
Kev
Anything else?
-
stpeter
Kev: that can be the first section of the document, doesn't need a special XML element, I think
-
ralphm
or is it 20:00 UTC?
-
Kev
stpeter: WFM.
-
MattJ
20:00
-
linuxwolf
yeah, right when I have a doc appt
-
ralphm
my train is pulling into the station
-
ralphm
bang!
-
Kev
Ok, I think we're done.
-
linuxwolf
talking about me becoming a cyborg
-
Kev
Thanks all :)
- Kev does the first gavel banging of the new term.
-
Kev
I'll send out minutes as per usual, delayed as per usual :)
-
ralphm
yay
-
stpeter
woot!
-
linuxwolf
/nod
-
stpeter
thanks, guys
-
Kev
Speaking of that, are the room logs working again?
-
Kev
No.
-
MattJ
They were broken?
-
linuxwolf
I think any meeting over the next two weeks will be difficult for me … so we'll see
-
Kev
Have been since the upgrade, yes.
-
linuxwolf
ugh
- stpeter wanders off to do some PTO things during his paid time off, but will be back in time for the FOSDEM chat
-
Tobias
k...see you guys later or so...heading home now
-
MattJ
I'll take a look at that too then
-
Kev
Thanks Tobias.
-
Kev
Thanks MattJ.
-
stpeter
I hadn't realized the logs were gone
-
Kev
HTTP 500.
-
linuxwolf
eek
-
Kev
I only care because that's what I use for pulling the minutes off.
-
Kev
I should really try out this live minute taking thing Board do.
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