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stpeter
meeting begins in 1 minute?
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Kev
It does.
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stpeter
it seems that some pokage in order :)
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Kev
I've poked Ralph.
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Kev
I don't see Tobias or Matt online.
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stpeter
aha ok
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stpeter
seems not
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linuxwolf
/-;
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stpeter
clearly these guys don't live by the calendar
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Kev
Matt's just come online.
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MattJ
Sorry I'm late - someone was using my computer :)
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Kev
The cheek.
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MattJ
Indeed
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Kev
Well, we have quorum.
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linuxwolf
/whew
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Kev
Or a quorum, probably.
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Kev
So, assuming we're keeping last term's lateness rules in place, let's start.
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Kev
1) Roll call.
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Kev
I'm here.
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linuxwolf
presente
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MattJ
Here
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Kev
2) DMUC3
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MattJ
Heh
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Kev
We should really make a decision about this.
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linuxwolf
/sigh
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Kev
I don't like it, but I'm abstaining from a veto.
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Kev
Have you both read this now
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MattJ
cat fmuc.xml | sed 's/proxy/mirror/g'
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Kev
?
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stpeter
:)
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linuxwolf
I have, and yes, DMUC3 looks a lot like a FMUC
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MattJ
Now, it *does* have some differentiating text
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MattJ
So I'm just going to assume they used FMUC as a base as it was closest to what they wanted
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Kev
(I note that we now have an implementation of FMUC, and I have updates to do once I'm not 'on holiday' in the new year accordingly)
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stpeter
MattJ: so it seems
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MattJ
But considering the end result is still somewhat the FMUC flow, I'm not sure we need another XEP doing the same thing
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linuxwolf
especially considering FMUC is still experimental
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MattJ
I'd rather the author's feedback on why FMUC doesn't work for them, and how it can be made to work
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MattJ
Indeed
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linuxwolf
precisely
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Tobias
hi
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Kev
Hi Tobias.
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stpeter
MattJ: true, that would be helpful
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Kev
It turns out that FMUC is pretty easy to implement, especially in fire-and-forget mode, so I'm expecting MattJ will be implementing this in Prosody shortly after I update the XEP :)
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linuxwolf
(-:
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Kev
Then I'll probably call for a move to draft, as we'll have two (hopefully interopping) implementations :)
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stpeter
FWIW, I've been having some chats with people off-list about distributed chat (e.g., doing a better job of defining the requirements)
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Kev
But I have to drastically improve the state of the XEP before then.
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MattJ
Kev, interestingly I already implemented it before you published the XEP :)
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Kev
stpeter: Yes, so've I.
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linuxwolf
so, the action on DMUC3 … reject with a request from the authors to explain what's broken in FMUC?
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MattJ
But without the remote MUC sending just one stanza per event to the proxy
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Kev
MattJ: So...isn't that MUC, then? :)
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MattJ
The problem with FMUC is that it requires the primary MUC to support it
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Kev
Ah, right.
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MattJ
Kev, well if s2s went down, the users could still chat locally
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Kev
Gotcha.
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Kev
This doesn't need any extra protocol work, to do it your way.
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MattJ
Agreed
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MattJ
linuxwolf, I agree
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Kev
It doesn't cover the use cases for (F|D)MUC, though :)
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Kev
Well, not some of them, anyway.
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MattJ
Yep
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Kev
linuxwolf: That seems reasonable to me.
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stpeter
I've also reached out to the folks at http://www.cococorp.com/ -- they have an implementation of XMPP over NORM (RFC 5740) that seems to be quite interesting and I would like to make sure that anything that's defined for link-local-ish chat would work with distributed chatrooms (I have a sense that this would be the case for FMUC, but I'm not sure yet)
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Kev
As someone abstaining :D
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Kev
stpeter: Ok.
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linuxwolf
ok, I'll take the responsibility of rejecting DMUC3 then (-:
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linuxwolf
I'll get something on the list before the end of the week
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Kev
Ta.
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Kev
3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ft-metadata.html
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Kev
I don't see any particular reason to reject this.
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linuxwolf
no objections from me
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MattJ
Especially when the examples mention my party
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MattJ
+1
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Kev
Incidentally, does anyone mind that my flow is usually: Present item Express my opinion
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Tobias
how does it and file transfer thumbnails work together?
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Tobias
isn't that metadata too?
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Kev
It occurs to me that this could potentially be considered leading the discussion the way the Chair wants it.
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MattJ
Kev, nope, go ahead :)
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Kev
Equally, I consider you all sufficiently independent to not be put off by it ;)
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MattJ
I pay more attention to linuxwolf, I agree with everything he says
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Kev
Excellent.
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linuxwolf
Kev: I'll call you out if I think there's over bias (-:
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Kev
Tobias: It is, yes.
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stpeter
thumbnails = http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0264.html
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linuxwolf
haha
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MattJ
+1
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Kev
Tobias: I don't *think* it conflicts with that - do you think it does?
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Kev
Or are you suggesting they should be rolled together?
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Tobias
Kev, right...the reference to the thumbnail could be included in the metadata form as a field
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linuxwolf
I'd prefer we figure out a way to add things without rolling all of these meta-data things into one über-meta-spec
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stpeter
yay, über-meta!
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linuxwolf
but I'd not object to rolling everything together
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Kev
So, what's the tone here? Accept it and extend it for other extensions, or reject for not being complete?
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Kev
I'm on the first of these.
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linuxwolf
especially considering that thumbnail is currently deferred
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linuxwolf
I
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linuxwolf
gah
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Tobias
Kev, pidgin transfers thumbnails via bits of binary
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stpeter
linuxwolf: it was deferred mostly because we were waiting to finish the other FT specs
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linuxwolf
I'd accept as is, and work in extensions by draft
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stpeter
linuxwolf: wfm
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Tobias
right
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Kev
Does anyone disagree with this?
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Tobias
i'm all okay for accepting it as experimental
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MattJ
I agree with linuxwolf
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Kev
Cool.
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Kev
4) 47 to Final
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Kev
Which I think means 47 Last Call.
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Kev
Ahem.
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Kev
CFI
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MattJ
+1
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linuxwolf
+1
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Tobias
+1
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stpeter
those Final XEPs are so lonely, they need some more friends...
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MattJ
:)
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Kev
Ok. Peter gets to issue a CFE then. Lucky Peter :)
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linuxwolf
let's make sure every t is dotted and i is crossed, though (-:
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Kev
(+1)
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Kev
5) 292 to Draft
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Kev
I think this is premature.
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stpeter
I won't issue the CFE until January
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stpeter
oh yes 292 to Draft is premature, maybe I mentioned it to figure out how we can get it to Draft eventually -- sorry about that
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Kev
We already have a widely deployed vCard standard. It's icky and may well be Wrong, but I think advancing 292 until there's implementation experience seems premature.
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Tobias
isn't that even implemented somewhere vCard4 over XMPP?
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Tobias
*is
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linuxwolf
Tobias: not yet, that I'm aware of
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Kev
Tobias: No, but if Peter says I misread his intention, we can move along :)
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MattJ
Link Mauve has a module for Prosody, but it's experimental at the moment
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Tobias
k
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Kev
5) 45 1.25.
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MattJ
+1
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Kev
I'd like to do this next year.
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linuxwolf
agreed
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linuxwolf
I need to re-read it again
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MattJ
I read the whole thing last night... :)
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stpeter
yeah it's rather large
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Kev
As I'm 'on holiday' until then, and would rather not spend my time off reading all of 45.
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stpeter
MattJ: good for you :)
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MattJ
last "morning" night
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stpeter
Kev: fully agree!
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Kev
Ok. So we're agreed to discuss it next year then, fab.
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Kev
7) Date of next meeting.
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Kev
January 4th, 5pm GMT?
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MattJ
+1
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linuxwolf
-1; other commitments
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Kev
11th?
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MattJ
+1
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Tobias
+1
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linuxwolf
I can do 1/3 @ 17:00 UTC
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stpeter
I'll likely be slammed on the 4th with IESG reading
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MattJ
stpeter, the IESG doesn't take a holiday for Christmas? :)
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stpeter
11th is fine with me
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stpeter
MattJ: we do, sort of, but we have a big telechat on the 5th
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linuxwolf
I'll have to get back to you about the 11th … I have a standing meeting at that time, but my participation is not always mandatory
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linuxwolf
Wednesdays and Thursdays are very meeting heavy for me
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Kev
Should we be doing a different day, then?
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Kev
I would rather neither Monday or Friday, but Tuesday seems generally doable for me.
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linuxwolf
I was able to do 16:00 UTC … 17:00UTC is 10:00 MST, which is when everyone else schedules their meetings /-:
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stpeter
Tuesday is better than Wednesday for me, at least through the end of March
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Kev
linuxwolf: Ah, so it's all Tobias's fault. That makes sense.
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linuxwolf
Tuesdays are better, although I'd likely miss every 3rd meeting
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linuxwolf
(-:
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Tobias
i could do tuesdays too
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Kev
Tuesday 3rd January 1700?
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linuxwolf
wfm
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Kev
(With a plan to make this the regular slot)
-
Tobias
okay
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MattJ
+1
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Kev
Ok.
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linuxwolf
/whew
-
Kev
8) Any other business?
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MattJ
Not here
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stpeter
although the 4th would be an appropriate date for a meeting, given that Jer released jabberd on January 4, 1999 ;-)
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linuxwolf
so we'll celebrate the eve of the release (-:
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Kev
Right.
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linuxwolf
no aob from me
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Kev
Ok, I tihnk we're done.
-
Kev
Thanks all
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Kev
Consider yourselves gavelbanged.
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linuxwolf
ouch
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linuxwolf
(-:
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Tobias
:)
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Tobias
stpeter, btw: do you wheter MSFT's OAuth2 authentication for their XMPP interface is using the new OAuth SASL mechanism http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-kitten-sasl-oauth-00.txt ?
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Tobias
i have the feeling not but i thought you might know more
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stpeter
Tobias: I am not sure, but I can inquire
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stpeter
I also want to find out if they have plans for s2s
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Tobias
i mean if they decide on OAuth it'd a nice move of them to go along with that draft or if it's not what they want discuss it with the authors of that draft
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stpeter
MattJ: thanks for the MUC notes
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MattJ
np
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stpeter
Tobias: indeed :)
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stpeter
Tobias: ok I've pinged one of my MS contacts
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Tobias
thx
- stpeter goes back to reviewing the issues at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/iri/trac/report/1 :(
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stpeter
ok, that's done! :)
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stpeter
IRIs are the bane of my existence
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MattJ
I read "IRS" at first
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stpeter
heh
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stpeter
I haven't had trouble with the IRS in quite some time
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