TobiasKev, do you plan more error info tags like <server-unavailable/> in psa?
Tobiasor are those supposed to be the standard ones from the RFC?
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KevThose are the only two I'd anticipated. They're not explicitly mappet other ones.
Tobiashas joined
stpeterposted a microblog about the meeting
KevSo I see :)
stpeter:)
stpeterI'll ping linuxwolf IRL
stpeterMatthew appears to be online
stpeterRalph is auto-away
stpeterBTW http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ is out of date :)
stpeterbrb
KevSo it is.
KevTobias: Please provide some text for your blurb.
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Tobiasfor my what?
Kevblurb |blərb|
noun
a short description of a book, movie, or other product written for promotional purposes and appearing on the cover of a book or in an advertisement.
Tobiasahh..okay
Zashhas joined
stpeterMatthew said he's joining
stpeterpinged Ralph as well
KevI'd already pinged both.
stpeter:)
stpeterin stereo!
MattJhas joined
MattJbtw, when's the next board meeting?
KevHave I really been Chair for four terms now?
KevI'm surprised it's that long without someone kicking me out.
MattJQuite possibly
stpeterKev: I think so :)
stpetermight stand for Council next time :)
MattJ*gasp*
stpeterMattJ: should be tomorrow at 16:30 UTC, I pinged the board list about that earlier today
KevPlease all check your blurbs and send in as appropriate.
KevOr edit yourself if you have the powers.
KevOnto the meeting:
Kev1) Roll call
KevI'm here.
stpeterthanks, Kev
linuxwolfpresente
KevMattJ / Tobias?
MattJPresent
Tobiasthere
Kev2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/network.html
Accept as XEP?
MattJ+1
linuxwolf+1
KevI read this, and I have only one significant complaint with it - I don't see why it requires the aggregator to be a server, it seems a task that could very well be performed by a bot or component.
Tobias+1
MattJIt's a good point
KevTobias: Was that +1 to my comment, or to publishing?
Tobiaspublishing on network xep
stpeterKev: true
KevI don't think it's a big enough point to block publication on, mind, but I think I'd rather see it addressed at some point.
KevI'm happy to publish.
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Ralph MeijerHello
Kev3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/psa.html
Accept as XEP?
KevHi Ralph.
Ralph Meijer+1 on 2)
KevThanks.
MattJ+0 on 1) :)
Ralph MeijerKev: fwif, I don't see the difference between a server and a component, from the protocol point of view
linuxwolfheh
KevRalph Meijer: There isn't one, to the outside world.
MattJlooks to see if PSA has changed since he saw it last
MattJand are the initials purely coincidental? :)
KevMattJ: I don't think so. Certainly not materially.
KevNo, it was a backronym. Someone at Isode has a 'great' sense of humour.
linuxwolfgee, I wonder who
MattJNo idea
MattJI'm going to lose sleep over this one
linuxwolfalso, good use of 'quotes'
KevI'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to guess which Chair of the Board that is.
Ralph Meijerheh
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Ralph MeijerMattJ: really?
MattJRalph Meijer, no :P
MattJSo, +1
linuxwolfanyhow…I've no objections to accepting as a XEP, provided "urn:xmpp:psa" is changed to "urn:xmpp:psa:0"
Ralph Meijer+1, and what lw says
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KevI realised that when writing MFR, and then forgot to go back and change it, thanks.
linuxwolfwhich is very minor, and probably something the XEP editor catches (-:
KevTobias:?
Tobiasyup...+1 from me on psa
Kev4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fastmuc.html
Accept as XEP?
Tobiaslooks sensible the way it is
linuxwolfthis one needs consistency work
KevWhere, and before or after publication?
linuxwolfthis time, I would prefer before publication
MattJTypo in ns
linuxwolfat least, pick a namespace (-:
linuxwolfs/pick a namespace/pick one namespace/
KevOh, just a namespace typo?
linuxwolfthere are areas I think are vague, but I think can be addressed after publication
Ralph Meijerso that is a −1 for consistency?
linuxwolfI didn't get a chance to send a comment about that before now, and am willing to wait until publication
Tobiasand the "I've just stopped writing"
MattJI think I'm +0 on this, until it's more fleshed out
KevI don't immediately see the namespace typo - can you point it out, please?
MattJpressence
linuxwolfis it "urn:xmpp:mfr" or "urn:xmpp:presence-session:0"?
linuxwolfor urn:xmpp:pressence-session:0"
KevOh.
Kevmfr is the disco feature, rather than the namespace.
linuxwolfmentally reduced the "ss" to "s", rather than ß
linuxwolfis there a good reason to define a separate disco feature from the namespace?
KevThere was a reason, but maybe it's not a good one.
linuxwolfI'm not immediately seeing it from this draft
KevSomeone could decide to use the same protocol for restablishing presence in other situations - such as after a client reconnect.
KevBut no, probably not.
linuxwolfin theory, we could have other protocols that act in a similar manner to MUC, but then shouldn't we make this more generic sooner rather than later?
KevFixed in Git, everything's now urn:xmpp:presence-session:0
linuxwolfand "MFR" is an application of the more-generic
linuxwolfgrazie
KevI think it's generic at the moment.
Ralph MeijerI'm +1 on publishing
KevThat is - the protocol is generic at the moment, but the described use case isn't.
linuxwolf/nod
KevI didn't want to open the rabbit hole of trying to do fast client reconnect with presence restablishment right now, but wrote the protocol such that we could in the future.
linuxwolfit does need fleshing out … but I'll not object to publishing on that account
KevIn which case, I think we'd extract the normative bits into another XEP, and reference that. It wouldn't affect implementations.
linuxwolfok
stpeterWFM
KevSo, I *think* that's no objection from M/M/R. Tobias?
MattJIt's no objection, but I'm not too keen on it being published in such a poor editorial state
Tobiasyeah...it looks highly unfinished
KevBlock it if you think it should be blocked.
MattJI have every confidence it will be remedied though, so...
MattJFine, -1 from me :)
Tobias-1 from me too
MattJI'm sure it'll look better next week
linuxwolf(-:
KevI'll just remember it next time someone submits a protoXEP :)
MattJNaturally :)
Tobiasheh
MattJI'll just set up my own standards foundation
KevVery sensible.
linuxwolfindubitably
MattJas long as I can borrow this one's board chair
Kev5) DMUC3
linuxwolf/sigh
Ralph MeijerI believe the intent is clear, and yes it needs cleanup, but no I don't think that should hold it up
Kevlinuxwolf: What did you think we should discuss about this?
Ralph Meijerthat's what 'experimental' is for, imo
MattJAll I can say about DMUC3 is that I want to see a discussion on it
linuxwolfwell, I wasn't sure if anyone would respond before this meeting, so now I'm not so sure (-:
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linuxwolfhopefully this kicks off said discussion of DMUCn vs FMUC vs ....
Kev(Yes, I'd got it to the stage where I thought it fitted "not obviously wrong", so I submitted it, I can do further work and re-submit)
MattJRalph Meijer, we've collectively blocked XEPs on editorial issues before now
Ralph MeijerMattJ: right. The mail went to the standards list, I don't see much happening there yet. (on DMUC)
Ralph MeijerMattJ: I know, but 'we' have different views than 'I'.
Kevlinuxwolf: So there's nothing you want to discuss here?
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Kev(i.e. it wasn't really for the agenda)
linuxwolfif we want to resolve this, I think someone needs to be more proactive on collaboration (-:
linuxwolfand by someone, I mean "preferably not me"
linuxwolf(-:
Ralph MeijerMattJ: If you care to lookup my acceptance history, you will see that I usually lean towards 'accept'.
MattJI drafted an email to the list re. collaboration in the XSF, but considered it might be deemed too patronising
Kevlinuxwolf: I have on my list for the next week or so to make sure that someone (either me or someone else I can fob it off on in the office) updates FMUC to cover Wayne's points.
Ralph MeijerMattJ: As I think that is a good starting point for discussion.
MattJRalph Meijer, same here, but I don't think it's going to hurt this one waiting another week :)
Ralph MeijerMattJ: The dmuc stuff is an exception because of the overlap.
linuxwolfKev: cool
KevSo, what goes in the minutes for DMUC3. I think we essentially decided not to discuss it.
linuxwolf"Kevin Smith to follow up with FMUC updates"
Kev6) Date of next meeting.
linuxwolfNBTBNC WFM
KevNext Tue I'm having my 'net connection faffed with, so I may well be offline.
Ralph MeijerKev: yeah, I don't see this as a discussable thing now.
Ralph Meijeractually, this timeslot doesn't work nicely for me
linuxwolfhrm
Tobiasi'm quite flexible when it comes to a timeslot next week
KevIs anyone not able to do the old timeslot next week?
KevWednesday, 1600GMT.
Ralph MeijerI loved the old one
stpeter:)
stpeterold and new both work for me
linuxwolfRalph Meijer: the old one is oft inconvenient to me, but not unattainable (-:
Ralph Meijerah
Kevlinuxwolf: Is it doable next week?
Ralph MeijerI work a lot evenings these days :-)
linuxwolfthat said, 2012-01-18T16:00Z is acceptable (-:
KevIf we decide on next week now, we can discuss a general time onlist.
KevMattJ / Tobias: ?
Ralph Meijerok
MattJwfm
linuxwolf16:00Z is 09:00-07:00, which is about 30 minutes before I get sucked into meetings
Tobiasyeha..let's discuss general time on list
Tobiasbut 2012-01-18T16:00Z should work on the first look
stpetershall I request XEP-0077 2.4rc1 for next week?
stpeter(no hurry on it)
linuxwolfI dunno … we're tentatively scheduled for XEP-0045 (-:
stpeterright
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Kevstpeter: Right, sorry, we ran out of time :)
stpeterKev: no worries
KevWe're over 30minutes now!
MattJNoooooo!
stpeteryep
Kev7) Any other business.
MattJNone here
linuxwolfnay
KevOk, thanks.
KevAll done then.
Kevbangs the gavel.
MattJThanks
Tobiasthx
KevWe don't have room logs back yet, right MattJ?
MattJCorrect
Ralph Meijersads
MattJA deadline I was working towards passed yesterday, I'm hoping to start catching up with normal things now
Astrodid the deadline make a «swoosh» when it passed by? ;-)
stpeterlaughs
linuxwolfwas the deadline a train (swoosh) or a bullet (zing)? (-:
MattJAmazingly I'd everything ready 10 minutes early :)
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stpeterKev: thanks for the quick minutes
Ralph Meijerhehe, that reminds me of Zaagmans: http://www.dwotd.nl/2009/11/675-zagen.html
Ralph Meijer(at 'Extra')
Kevstpeter: I wrote them as we met, for a change.
stpetergood thinking :)
stpeterbrb
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KevRemember everyone, we need new blurbs for the Council page on xmpp.org.
linuxwolf"Matt has been involved with the Jabber community since late 2000, has been a member of the XSF since its inception in 2001, and has previously served on the 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06, and 2010-2011 Councils. Matt is a senior engineer and architect of XMPP client libraries for Cisco, Inc. and was previously a Professional Services Engineer and client developer for Jabber, Inc."
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KevUpdated, merci.
louiz’de rien
stpeterbooks his flights to Brussels
linuxwolfhas joined
linuxwolfponders a reply to DANE
stpeterhas already replied
linuxwolfhoped as much
stpeterisn't feeling so well and is hoping that lunch might help
linuxwolfnotes that a season illness has been making the rounds in the office
stpeterwonders what the record is for the number of consecutive groupchat messages beginning with '/me'
linuxwolfrecalls an time period greater than 2 hours where the jdev chatroom was nothing but /me
stpeterthinks that processing ProtoXEPs and XEP patches is a good activity to complete in his woozy state of mind
Zashwhispers MAM
stpeterthe next Council meeting is 7 days from today, or 8 days from today?
linuxwolf8? … 2011-01-18T16:00:00Z
stpeterright
stpeterjust verifying
stpeterI might as well update the calendar while I'm doing XEP stuff
linuxwolfapparently I can only deal with absolutes
linuxwolf(-:
linuxwolfgrazie
stpeterlinuxwolf: sure thing!
stpeterlinuxwolf: I notice that I never processed your patch about the council note, I'm happy to do that now, too
linuxwolfoh, really?
stpeterit arrived not long before the winter holidays
linuxwolfwell, since there was no objections, that would be great
stpeteryepper
linuxwolfI already lost my local copy of it
stpeterheh
KevSorry, I vaguely recall seeing that and put off processing it for some reason.
KevInbox zero has 168 threads in it at the moment (for my personal account).
linuxwolfwell, it was delivered rather close to the holidays
KevI should take a day of holiday to sort out my inbox. Problem being that if I have a day of holiday, sorting my inbox is one of the last things I'd want to do with it.
linuxwolf(-:
KevHeh. Did you just publish MUC Fast Reconnect Peter? :)
linuxwolfI thought MattJ and Tobias were −1 to publishing MFR?
Kev^5s linuxwolf
stpeteroh
stpetersigh
linuxwolfHA! Proof that stpeter is a human being!
linuxwolf(-:
KevNevermind. I'll sort it out tomorrow, I expect.
Kevlinuxwolf: I don't see why that follows.
stpeteroh we've got plenty of evidence of that :P
stpeterI make plenty of mistakes
linuxwolfmostly because he's treated as infallible around the office (-:
linuxwolfat least by some
stpeterthey're wrong!
linuxwolfinevitably
stpeterI think I might leave the office early today so I can prep for my conference call at 17:00...
KevGo home get rest.
linuxwolfyour boss is out-of-town … play hooky!
stpeterheh
stpeterlinuxwolf: I can invite you to join this IRI design team call at 5 if you'd like :)
linuxwolfuh no.
linuxwolfWait, let me think- no
linuxwolfyour term is up at the end of March, right?
stpeteryepper
linuxwolfis preferring the mobile-version over the desktop-version of websites lately
stpeteryeah
stpeterI optimized my personal website for mobile recently
linuxwolfgood for you
stpeterdesktop versions are too cluttered
linuxwolfby far
stpeterof course, I busted all my feeds when I did that ;-)
linuxwolfand the mobile versions are just as capable
linuxwolfheh
stpetermakes a note to check out http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ later today
linuxwolfinteresting
linuxwolfadds a bookmark
MattJGuess which XMPP server they're planning on using
linuxwolfjabberd1
linuxwolfducks
linuxwolfthat's great
stpeterreally?
MattJYeah
MattJI was watching one of their talks
stpetersigh
stpeternothing like being on the cutting edge
MattJand he said they were planning on using "pro-soh-dee"
linuxwolf(-:
MattJIt was the first time I'd heard it pronounced *that* way
MattJIt took me a rewind and a minute to be sure I hadn't misheard
linuxwolfthinks of how he pronounces it
stpetervs. pro-zoh-dee?
linuxwolfprah-zah-dee?
linuxwolfpro-zah-dee?
MattJI never knew there were so many ways to say it
linuxwolf(-:
MattJor spell it, for that matter
Zashpråsådyh
linuxwolfyou'll have to add an official pronunciation MP3 to prosody.im (_:
ZashWasn't there one already?
MattJThere is
linuxwolfgah
linuxwolfreally?
MattJReally :)
ZashNo
Zashmatthew-wild-says-prosody.ogg
MattJHa
Zashnot mp3 ;)
linuxwolfthere's no link on the mainpage, or the FAQ
MattJIt's not an FAQ :P
MattJPeople just assume they're right
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
MattJand to be honest, I don't really care how people say it...
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
MattJNO!
ZashHaha
linuxwolf (-:
linuxwolfnow there's a meme we can start at the XMPP Summits!
linuxwolf"How do you pronounce <insert-project-name>?"
louiz’“pro” “zo” “dee”
stpeterwell, it comes from Greek προσῳδία and σ in Greek is "ess"
ZashThe what
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Zashlinuxwolf: *approval*
MattJTherefore I bow to stpeter's pronunciation of Prosody
Zashsubmits formal request for 'peter-saint-andre-says-prosody.ogg'
stpeterI just like an excuse to use Greek letters :)
louiz’:D
louiz’+1 Zash
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Ralph Meijer"Ralph Meijer is the lead developer of several Jabber-related projects and services, including Wokkel <http://wokkel.ik.nu/> and the XMPP support in Twisted <http://www.twistedmatrix.com/>, the Idavoll <http://idavoll.ik.nu/> pubsub component, and Planet Jabber <http://planet.jabber.org/>. Ralph <http://ralphm.net/> has been member of the XMPP Council since 2004 and is a platform engineer for Mochi Media <http://www.mochimedia.com/>."
ralphmhas joined
ralphmAlso "zimpy" is my favorite.
KevUpdated, ta.
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Ralph MeijerKev: there should be a space in front of 'Wokkel'
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Tobias"Tobias Markmann is an occaisonal contributer to various XMPP projects including <a href="http://prosody.im/>Prosody</a> and <a href="http://swift.im/">Swift</a>. He has also initiated the <a href="http://code.google.com/p/xmppench/">xmppench</a> project, a XMPP server benchmark tool. Tobias joined the XMPP Council late 2011.<br/>
His blog can be found at <a href="http://ayena.de/">ayena.de</a>."
TobiasKev, how is this for starters? ^^
Ralph Meijeroccasional
Ralph Meijercontributor
Tobiasouch
Tobiasaside from tons of typos..i shouldn't write such things that late