XMPP Council - 2012-01-10

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  13. Kev Council in 56 minutes, by my count.
  14. Tobias yup
  15. Tobias Kev, do you plan more error info tags like <server-unavailable/> in psa?
  16. Tobias or are those supposed to be the standard ones from the RFC?
  17. stpeter has joined
  18. Kev Those are the only two I'd anticipated. They're not explicitly mappet other ones.
  19. Tobias has joined
  20. stpeter posted a microblog about the meeting
  21. Kev So I see :)
  22. stpeter :)
  23. stpeter I'll ping linuxwolf IRL
  24. stpeter Matthew appears to be online
  25. stpeter Ralph is auto-away
  26. stpeter BTW http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ is out of date :)
  27. stpeter brb
  28. Kev So it is.
  29. Kev Tobias: Please provide some text for your blurb.
  30. linuxwolf has joined
  31. Steffen Larsen has joined
  32. Tobias for my what?
  33. Kev blurb |blərb| noun a short description of a book, movie, or other product written for promotional purposes and appearing on the cover of a book or in an advertisement.
  34. Tobias ahh..okay
  35. Zash has joined
  36. stpeter Matthew said he's joining
  37. stpeter pinged Ralph as well
  38. Kev I'd already pinged both.
  39. stpeter :)
  40. stpeter in stereo!
  41. MattJ has joined
  42. MattJ btw, when's the next board meeting?
  43. Kev Have I really been Chair for four terms now?
  44. Kev I'm surprised it's that long without someone kicking me out.
  45. MattJ Quite possibly
  46. stpeter Kev: I think so :)
  47. stpeter might stand for Council next time :)
  48. MattJ *gasp*
  49. stpeter MattJ: should be tomorrow at 16:30 UTC, I pinged the board list about that earlier today
  50. stpeter updates the calendar
  51. Kev Right.
  52. Kev I've updated http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ slightly.
  53. Kev Please all check your blurbs and send in as appropriate.
  54. Kev Or edit yourself if you have the powers.
  55. Kev Onto the meeting:
  56. Kev 1) Roll call
  57. Kev I'm here.
  58. stpeter thanks, Kev
  59. linuxwolf presente
  60. Kev MattJ / Tobias?
  61. MattJ Present
  62. Tobias there
  63. Kev 2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/network.html Accept as XEP?
  64. MattJ +1
  65. linuxwolf +1
  66. Kev I read this, and I have only one significant complaint with it - I don't see why it requires the aggregator to be a server, it seems a task that could very well be performed by a bot or component.
  67. Tobias +1
  68. MattJ It's a good point
  69. Kev Tobias: Was that +1 to my comment, or to publishing?
  70. Tobias publishing on network xep
  71. stpeter Kev: true
  72. Kev I don't think it's a big enough point to block publication on, mind, but I think I'd rather see it addressed at some point.
  73. Kev I'm happy to publish.
  74. Ralph Meijer has joined
  75. Ralph Meijer Hello
  76. Kev 3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/psa.html Accept as XEP?
  77. Kev Hi Ralph.
  78. Ralph Meijer +1 on 2)
  79. Kev Thanks.
  80. MattJ +0 on 1) :)
  81. Ralph Meijer Kev: fwif, I don't see the difference between a server and a component, from the protocol point of view
  82. linuxwolf heh
  83. Kev Ralph Meijer: There isn't one, to the outside world.
  84. MattJ looks to see if PSA has changed since he saw it last
  85. MattJ and are the initials purely coincidental? :)
  86. Kev MattJ: I don't think so. Certainly not materially.
  87. Kev No, it was a backronym. Someone at Isode has a 'great' sense of humour.
  88. linuxwolf gee, I wonder who
  89. MattJ No idea
  90. MattJ I'm going to lose sleep over this one
  91. linuxwolf also, good use of 'quotes'
  92. Kev I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to guess which Chair of the Board that is.
  93. Ralph Meijer heh
  94. Astro has joined
  95. Ralph Meijer MattJ: really?
  96. MattJ Ralph Meijer, no :P
  97. MattJ So, +1
  98. linuxwolf anyhow…I've no objections to accepting as a XEP, provided "urn:xmpp:psa" is changed to "urn:xmpp:psa:0"
  99. Ralph Meijer +1, and what lw says
  100. louiz’ has joined
  101. Kev I realised that when writing MFR, and then forgot to go back and change it, thanks.
  102. linuxwolf which is very minor, and probably something the XEP editor catches (-:
  103. Kev Tobias:?
  104. Tobias yup...+1 from me on psa
  105. Kev 4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fastmuc.html Accept as XEP?
  106. Tobias looks sensible the way it is
  107. linuxwolf this one needs consistency work
  108. Kev Where, and before or after publication?
  109. linuxwolf this time, I would prefer before publication
  110. MattJ Typo in ns
  111. linuxwolf at least, pick a namespace (-:
  112. linuxwolf s/pick a namespace/pick one namespace/
  113. Kev Oh, just a namespace typo?
  114. linuxwolf there are areas I think are vague, but I think can be addressed after publication
  115. Ralph Meijer so that is a −1 for consistency?
  116. linuxwolf I didn't get a chance to send a comment about that before now, and am willing to wait until publication
  117. Tobias and the "I've just stopped writing"
  118. MattJ I think I'm +0 on this, until it's more fleshed out
  119. Kev I don't immediately see the namespace typo - can you point it out, please?
  120. MattJ pressence
  121. linuxwolf is it "urn:xmpp:mfr" or "urn:xmpp:presence-session:0"?
  122. linuxwolf or urn:xmpp:pressence-session:0"
  123. Kev Oh.
  124. Kev mfr is the disco feature, rather than the namespace.
  125. linuxwolf mentally reduced the "ss" to "s", rather than ß
  126. linuxwolf is there a good reason to define a separate disco feature from the namespace?
  127. Kev There was a reason, but maybe it's not a good one.
  128. linuxwolf I'm not immediately seeing it from this draft
  129. Kev Someone could decide to use the same protocol for restablishing presence in other situations - such as after a client reconnect.
  130. Kev But no, probably not.
  131. linuxwolf in theory, we could have other protocols that act in a similar manner to MUC, but then shouldn't we make this more generic sooner rather than later?
  132. Kev Fixed in Git, everything's now urn:xmpp:presence-session:0
  133. linuxwolf and "MFR" is an application of the more-generic
  134. linuxwolf grazie
  135. Kev I think it's generic at the moment.
  136. Ralph Meijer I'm +1 on publishing
  137. Kev That is - the protocol is generic at the moment, but the described use case isn't.
  138. linuxwolf /nod
  139. Kev I didn't want to open the rabbit hole of trying to do fast client reconnect with presence restablishment right now, but wrote the protocol such that we could in the future.
  140. linuxwolf it does need fleshing out … but I'll not object to publishing on that account
  141. Kev In which case, I think we'd extract the normative bits into another XEP, and reference that. It wouldn't affect implementations.
  142. linuxwolf ok
  143. stpeter WFM
  144. Kev So, I *think* that's no objection from M/M/R. Tobias?
  145. MattJ It's no objection, but I'm not too keen on it being published in such a poor editorial state
  146. Tobias yeah...it looks highly unfinished
  147. Kev Block it if you think it should be blocked.
  148. MattJ I have every confidence it will be remedied though, so...
  149. MattJ Fine, -1 from me :)
  150. Tobias -1 from me too
  151. MattJ I'm sure it'll look better next week
  152. linuxwolf (-:
  153. Kev I'll just remember it next time someone submits a protoXEP :)
  154. MattJ Naturally :)
  155. Tobias heh
  156. MattJ I'll just set up my own standards foundation
  157. Kev Very sensible.
  158. linuxwolf indubitably
  159. MattJ as long as I can borrow this one's board chair
  160. Kev 5) DMUC3
  161. linuxwolf /sigh
  162. Ralph Meijer I believe the intent is clear, and yes it needs cleanup, but no I don't think that should hold it up
  163. Kev linuxwolf: What did you think we should discuss about this?
  164. Ralph Meijer that's what 'experimental' is for, imo
  165. MattJ All I can say about DMUC3 is that I want to see a discussion on it
  166. linuxwolf well, I wasn't sure if anyone would respond before this meeting, so now I'm not so sure (-:
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  168. linuxwolf hopefully this kicks off said discussion of DMUCn vs FMUC vs ....
  169. Kev (Yes, I'd got it to the stage where I thought it fitted "not obviously wrong", so I submitted it, I can do further work and re-submit)
  170. MattJ Ralph Meijer, we've collectively blocked XEPs on editorial issues before now
  171. Ralph Meijer MattJ: right. The mail went to the standards list, I don't see much happening there yet. (on DMUC)
  172. Ralph Meijer MattJ: I know, but 'we' have different views than 'I'.
  173. Kev linuxwolf: So there's nothing you want to discuss here?
  174. Steffen Larsen has left
  175. Kev (i.e. it wasn't really for the agenda)
  176. linuxwolf if we want to resolve this, I think someone needs to be more proactive on collaboration (-:
  177. linuxwolf and by someone, I mean "preferably not me"
  178. linuxwolf (-:
  179. Ralph Meijer MattJ: If you care to lookup my acceptance history, you will see that I usually lean towards 'accept'.
  180. MattJ I drafted an email to the list re. collaboration in the XSF, but considered it might be deemed too patronising
  181. Kev linuxwolf: I have on my list for the next week or so to make sure that someone (either me or someone else I can fob it off on in the office) updates FMUC to cover Wayne's points.
  182. Ralph Meijer MattJ: As I think that is a good starting point for discussion.
  183. MattJ Ralph Meijer, same here, but I don't think it's going to hurt this one waiting another week :)
  184. Ralph Meijer MattJ: The dmuc stuff is an exception because of the overlap.
  185. linuxwolf Kev: cool
  186. Kev So, what goes in the minutes for DMUC3. I think we essentially decided not to discuss it.
  187. linuxwolf "Kevin Smith to follow up with FMUC updates"
  188. Kev 6) Date of next meeting.
  189. linuxwolf NBTBNC WFM
  190. Kev Next Tue I'm having my 'net connection faffed with, so I may well be offline.
  191. Ralph Meijer Kev: yeah, I don't see this as a discussable thing now.
  192. Ralph Meijer actually, this timeslot doesn't work nicely for me
  193. linuxwolf hrm
  194. Tobias i'm quite flexible when it comes to a timeslot next week
  195. Kev Is anyone not able to do the old timeslot next week?
  196. Kev Wednesday, 1600GMT.
  197. Ralph Meijer I loved the old one
  198. stpeter :)
  199. stpeter old and new both work for me
  200. linuxwolf Ralph Meijer: the old one is oft inconvenient to me, but not unattainable (-:
  201. Ralph Meijer ah
  202. Kev linuxwolf: Is it doable next week?
  203. Ralph Meijer I work a lot evenings these days :-)
  204. linuxwolf that said, 2012-01-18T16:00Z is acceptable (-:
  205. Kev If we decide on next week now, we can discuss a general time onlist.
  206. Kev MattJ / Tobias: ?
  207. Ralph Meijer ok
  208. MattJ wfm
  209. linuxwolf 16:00Z is 09:00-07:00, which is about 30 minutes before I get sucked into meetings
  210. Tobias yeha..let's discuss general time on list
  211. Tobias but 2012-01-18T16:00Z should work on the first look
  212. stpeter shall I request XEP-0077 2.4rc1 for next week?
  213. stpeter (no hurry on it)
  214. linuxwolf I dunno … we're tentatively scheduled for XEP-0045 (-:
  215. stpeter right
  216. Zash has joined
  217. Kev stpeter: Right, sorry, we ran out of time :)
  218. stpeter Kev: no worries
  219. Kev We're over 30minutes now!
  220. MattJ Noooooo!
  221. stpeter yep
  222. Kev 7) Any other business.
  223. MattJ None here
  224. linuxwolf nay
  225. Kev Ok, thanks.
  226. Kev All done then.
  227. Kev bangs the gavel.
  228. MattJ Thanks
  229. Tobias thx
  230. Kev We don't have room logs back yet, right MattJ?
  231. MattJ Correct
  232. Ralph Meijer sads
  233. MattJ A deadline I was working towards passed yesterday, I'm hoping to start catching up with normal things now
  234. Astro did the deadline make a «swoosh» when it passed by? ;-)
  235. stpeter laughs
  236. linuxwolf was the deadline a train (swoosh) or a bullet (zing)? (-:
  237. MattJ Amazingly I'd everything ready 10 minutes early :)
  238. Zash has joined
  239. stpeter Kev: thanks for the quick minutes
  240. Ralph Meijer hehe, that reminds me of Zaagmans: http://www.dwotd.nl/2009/11/675-zagen.html
  241. Ralph Meijer (at 'Extra')
  242. Kev stpeter: I wrote them as we met, for a change.
  243. stpeter good thinking :)
  244. stpeter brb
  245. Astro has left
  246. Astro has joined
  247. Kev Remember everyone, we need new blurbs for the Council page on xmpp.org.
  248. linuxwolf "Matt has been involved with the Jabber community since late 2000, has been a member of the XSF since its inception in 2001, and has previously served on the 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06, and 2010-2011 Councils. Matt is a senior engineer and architect of XMPP client libraries for Cisco, Inc. and was previously a Professional Services Engineer and client developer for Jabber, Inc."
  249. linuxwolf has left
  250. Kev Updated, merci.
  251. louiz’ de rien
  252. stpeter books his flights to Brussels
  253. linuxwolf has joined
  254. linuxwolf ponders a reply to DANE
  255. stpeter has already replied
  256. linuxwolf hoped as much
  257. stpeter isn't feeling so well and is hoping that lunch might help
  258. linuxwolf notes that a season illness has been making the rounds in the office
  259. stpeter wonders what the record is for the number of consecutive groupchat messages beginning with '/me'
  260. linuxwolf recalls an time period greater than 2 hours where the jdev chatroom was nothing but /me
  261. stpeter thinks that processing ProtoXEPs and XEP patches is a good activity to complete in his woozy state of mind
  262. Zash whispers MAM
  263. stpeter the next Council meeting is 7 days from today, or 8 days from today?
  264. linuxwolf 8? … 2011-01-18T16:00:00Z
  265. stpeter right
  266. stpeter just verifying
  267. stpeter I might as well update the calendar while I'm doing XEP stuff
  268. linuxwolf apparently I can only deal with absolutes
  269. linuxwolf (-:
  270. linuxwolf grazie
  271. stpeter linuxwolf: sure thing!
  272. stpeter linuxwolf: I notice that I never processed your patch about the council note, I'm happy to do that now, too
  273. linuxwolf oh, really?
  274. stpeter it arrived not long before the winter holidays
  275. linuxwolf well, since there was no objections, that would be great
  276. stpeter yepper
  277. linuxwolf I already lost my local copy of it
  278. stpeter heh
  279. Kev Sorry, I vaguely recall seeing that and put off processing it for some reason.
  280. Kev Inbox zero has 168 threads in it at the moment (for my personal account).
  281. linuxwolf well, it was delivered rather close to the holidays
  282. Kev I should take a day of holiday to sort out my inbox. Problem being that if I have a day of holiday, sorting my inbox is one of the last things I'd want to do with it.
  283. linuxwolf (-:
  284. Kev Heh. Did you just publish MUC Fast Reconnect Peter? :)
  285. linuxwolf I thought MattJ and Tobias were −1 to publishing MFR?
  286. Kev ^5s linuxwolf
  287. stpeter oh
  288. stpeter sigh
  289. linuxwolf HA! Proof that stpeter is a human being!
  290. linuxwolf (-:
  291. Kev Nevermind. I'll sort it out tomorrow, I expect.
  292. Kev linuxwolf: I don't see why that follows.
  293. stpeter oh we've got plenty of evidence of that :P
  294. stpeter I make plenty of mistakes
  295. linuxwolf mostly because he's treated as infallible around the office (-:
  296. linuxwolf at least by some
  297. stpeter they're wrong!
  298. linuxwolf inevitably
  299. stpeter I think I might leave the office early today so I can prep for my conference call at 17:00...
  300. Kev Go home get rest.
  301. linuxwolf your boss is out-of-town … play hooky!
  302. stpeter heh
  303. stpeter linuxwolf: I can invite you to join this IRI design team call at 5 if you'd like :)
  304. linuxwolf uh no.
  305. linuxwolf Wait, let me think- no
  306. linuxwolf your term is up at the end of March, right?
  307. stpeter yepper
  308. linuxwolf is preferring the mobile-version over the desktop-version of websites lately
  309. stpeter yeah
  310. stpeter I optimized my personal website for mobile recently
  311. linuxwolf good for you
  312. stpeter desktop versions are too cluttered
  313. linuxwolf by far
  314. stpeter of course, I busted all my feeds when I did that ;-)
  315. linuxwolf and the mobile versions are just as capable
  316. linuxwolf heh
  317. stpeter makes a note to check out http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ later today
  318. linuxwolf interesting
  319. linuxwolf adds a bookmark
  320. MattJ Guess which XMPP server they're planning on using
  321. linuxwolf jabberd1
  322. linuxwolf ducks
  323. linuxwolf that's great
  324. stpeter really?
  325. MattJ Yeah
  326. MattJ I was watching one of their talks
  327. stpeter sigh
  328. stpeter nothing like being on the cutting edge
  329. MattJ and he said they were planning on using "pro-soh-dee"
  330. linuxwolf (-:
  331. MattJ It was the first time I'd heard it pronounced *that* way
  332. MattJ It took me a rewind and a minute to be sure I hadn't misheard
  333. linuxwolf thinks of how he pronounces it
  334. stpeter vs. pro-zoh-dee?
  335. linuxwolf prah-zah-dee?
  336. linuxwolf pro-zah-dee?
  337. MattJ I never knew there were so many ways to say it
  338. linuxwolf (-:
  339. MattJ or spell it, for that matter
  340. Zash pråsådyh
  341. linuxwolf you'll have to add an official pronunciation MP3 to prosody.im (_:
  342. Zash Wasn't there one already?
  343. MattJ There is
  344. linuxwolf gah
  345. linuxwolf really?
  346. MattJ Really :)
  347. Zash No
  348. Zash matthew-wild-says-prosody.ogg
  349. MattJ Ha
  350. Zash not mp3 ;)
  351. linuxwolf there's no link on the mainpage, or the FAQ
  352. MattJ It's not an FAQ :P
  353. MattJ People just assume they're right
  354. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  355. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  356. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  357. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  358. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  359. MattJ and to be honest, I don't really care how people say it...
  360. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  361. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  362. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  363. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
  364. MattJ NO!
  365. Zash Haha
  366. linuxwolf (-:
  367. linuxwolf now there's a meme we can start at the XMPP Summits!
  368. linuxwolf "How do you pronounce <insert-project-name>?"
  369. louiz’ “pro” “zo” “dee”
  370. stpeter well, it comes from Greek προσῳδία and σ in Greek is "ess"
  371. Zash The what
  372. Tobias has joined
  373. Zash linuxwolf: *approval*
  374. MattJ Therefore I bow to stpeter's pronunciation of Prosody
  375. Zash submits formal request for 'peter-saint-andre-says-prosody.ogg'
  376. stpeter I just like an excuse to use Greek letters :)
  377. louiz’ :D
  378. louiz’ +1 Zash
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  382. Ralph Meijer "Ralph Meijer is the lead developer of several Jabber-related projects and services, including Wokkel <http://wokkel.ik.nu/> and the XMPP support in Twisted <http://www.twistedmatrix.com/>, the Idavoll <http://idavoll.ik.nu/> pubsub component, and Planet Jabber <http://planet.jabber.org/>. Ralph <http://ralphm.net/> has been member of the XMPP Council since 2004 and is a platform engineer for Mochi Media <http://www.mochimedia.com/>."
  383. ralphm has joined
  384. ralphm Also "zimpy" is my favorite.
  385. Kev Updated, ta.
  386. Zash has joined
  387. ralphm has left
  388. Ralph Meijer has joined
  389. Ralph Meijer Kev: there should be a space in front of 'Wokkel'
  390. Zash has joined
  391. Tobias "Tobias Markmann is an occaisonal contributer to various XMPP projects including <a href="http://prosody.im/>Prosody</a> and <a href="http://swift.im/">Swift</a>. He has also initiated the <a href="http://code.google.com/p/xmppench/">xmppench</a> project, a XMPP server benchmark tool. Tobias joined the XMPP Council late 2011.<br/> His blog can be found at <a href="http://ayena.de/">ayena.de</a>."
  392. Tobias Kev, how is this for starters? ^^
  393. Ralph Meijer occasional
  394. Ralph Meijer contributor
  395. Tobias ouch
  396. Tobias aside from tons of typos..i shouldn't write such things that late
  397. Tobias thx
  398. Ralph Meijer hehe
  399. linuxwolf (-:
  400. linuxwolf has left
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