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Kev
Council in 56 minutes, by my count.
-
Tobias
yup
-
Tobias
Kev, do you plan more error info tags like <server-unavailable/> in psa?
-
Tobias
or are those supposed to be the standard ones from the RFC?
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Kev
Those are the only two I'd anticipated. They're not explicitly mappet other ones.
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stpeter
posted a microblog about the meeting
-
Kev
So I see :)
-
stpeter
:)
-
stpeter
I'll ping linuxwolf IRL
-
stpeter
Matthew appears to be online
-
stpeter
Ralph is auto-away
-
stpeter
BTW http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ is out of date :)
-
stpeter
brb
-
Kev
So it is.
-
Kev
Tobias: Please provide some text for your blurb.
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Tobias
for my what?
-
Kev
blurb |blərb| noun a short description of a book, movie, or other product written for promotional purposes and appearing on the cover of a book or in an advertisement.
-
Tobias
ahh..okay
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stpeter
Matthew said he's joining
-
stpeter
pinged Ralph as well
-
Kev
I'd already pinged both.
-
stpeter
:)
-
stpeter
in stereo!
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MattJ
btw, when's the next board meeting?
-
Kev
Have I really been Chair for four terms now?
-
Kev
I'm surprised it's that long without someone kicking me out.
-
MattJ
Quite possibly
-
stpeter
Kev: I think so :)
- stpeter might stand for Council next time :)
-
MattJ
*gasp*
-
stpeter
MattJ: should be tomorrow at 16:30 UTC, I pinged the board list about that earlier today
- stpeter updates the calendar
-
Kev
Right.
-
Kev
I've updated http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ slightly.
-
Kev
Please all check your blurbs and send in as appropriate.
-
Kev
Or edit yourself if you have the powers.
-
Kev
Onto the meeting:
-
Kev
1) Roll call
-
Kev
I'm here.
-
stpeter
thanks, Kev
-
linuxwolf
presente
-
Kev
MattJ / Tobias?
-
MattJ
Present
-
Tobias
there
-
Kev
2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/network.html Accept as XEP?
-
MattJ
+1
-
linuxwolf
+1
-
Kev
I read this, and I have only one significant complaint with it - I don't see why it requires the aggregator to be a server, it seems a task that could very well be performed by a bot or component.
-
Tobias
+1
-
MattJ
It's a good point
-
Kev
Tobias: Was that +1 to my comment, or to publishing?
-
Tobias
publishing on network xep
-
stpeter
Kev: true
-
Kev
I don't think it's a big enough point to block publication on, mind, but I think I'd rather see it addressed at some point.
-
Kev
I'm happy to publish.
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Ralph Meijer
Hello
-
Kev
3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/psa.html Accept as XEP?
-
Kev
Hi Ralph.
-
Ralph Meijer
+1 on 2)
-
Kev
Thanks.
-
MattJ
+0 on 1) :)
-
Ralph Meijer
Kev: fwif, I don't see the difference between a server and a component, from the protocol point of view
-
linuxwolf
heh
-
Kev
Ralph Meijer: There isn't one, to the outside world.
- MattJ looks to see if PSA has changed since he saw it last
-
MattJ
and are the initials purely coincidental? :)
-
Kev
MattJ: I don't think so. Certainly not materially.
-
Kev
No, it was a backronym. Someone at Isode has a 'great' sense of humour.
-
linuxwolf
gee, I wonder who
-
MattJ
No idea
-
MattJ
I'm going to lose sleep over this one
-
linuxwolf
also, good use of 'quotes'
-
Kev
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to guess which Chair of the Board that is.
-
Ralph Meijer
heh
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Ralph Meijer
MattJ: really?
-
MattJ
Ralph Meijer, no :P
-
MattJ
So, +1
-
linuxwolf
anyhow…I've no objections to accepting as a XEP, provided "urn:xmpp:psa" is changed to "urn:xmpp:psa:0"
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Ralph Meijer
+1, and what lw says
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Kev
I realised that when writing MFR, and then forgot to go back and change it, thanks.
-
linuxwolf
which is very minor, and probably something the XEP editor catches (-:
-
Kev
Tobias:?
-
Tobias
yup...+1 from me on psa
-
Kev
4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fastmuc.html Accept as XEP?
-
Tobias
looks sensible the way it is
-
linuxwolf
this one needs consistency work
-
Kev
Where, and before or after publication?
-
linuxwolf
this time, I would prefer before publication
-
MattJ
Typo in ns
-
linuxwolf
at least, pick a namespace (-:
-
linuxwolf
s/pick a namespace/pick one namespace/
-
Kev
Oh, just a namespace typo?
-
linuxwolf
there are areas I think are vague, but I think can be addressed after publication
-
Ralph Meijer
so that is a −1 for consistency?
-
linuxwolf
I didn't get a chance to send a comment about that before now, and am willing to wait until publication
-
Tobias
and the "I've just stopped writing"
-
MattJ
I think I'm +0 on this, until it's more fleshed out
-
Kev
I don't immediately see the namespace typo - can you point it out, please?
-
MattJ
pressence
-
linuxwolf
is it "urn:xmpp:mfr" or "urn:xmpp:presence-session:0"?
-
linuxwolf
or urn:xmpp:pressence-session:0"
-
Kev
Oh.
-
Kev
mfr is the disco feature, rather than the namespace.
- linuxwolf mentally reduced the "ss" to "s", rather than ß
-
linuxwolf
is there a good reason to define a separate disco feature from the namespace?
-
Kev
There was a reason, but maybe it's not a good one.
-
linuxwolf
I'm not immediately seeing it from this draft
-
Kev
Someone could decide to use the same protocol for restablishing presence in other situations - such as after a client reconnect.
-
Kev
But no, probably not.
-
linuxwolf
in theory, we could have other protocols that act in a similar manner to MUC, but then shouldn't we make this more generic sooner rather than later?
-
Kev
Fixed in Git, everything's now urn:xmpp:presence-session:0
-
linuxwolf
and "MFR" is an application of the more-generic
-
linuxwolf
grazie
-
Kev
I think it's generic at the moment.
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Ralph Meijer
I'm +1 on publishing
-
Kev
That is - the protocol is generic at the moment, but the described use case isn't.
-
linuxwolf
/nod
-
Kev
I didn't want to open the rabbit hole of trying to do fast client reconnect with presence restablishment right now, but wrote the protocol such that we could in the future.
-
linuxwolf
it does need fleshing out … but I'll not object to publishing on that account
-
Kev
In which case, I think we'd extract the normative bits into another XEP, and reference that. It wouldn't affect implementations.
-
linuxwolf
ok
-
stpeter
WFM
-
Kev
So, I *think* that's no objection from M/M/R. Tobias?
-
MattJ
It's no objection, but I'm not too keen on it being published in such a poor editorial state
-
Tobias
yeah...it looks highly unfinished
-
Kev
Block it if you think it should be blocked.
-
MattJ
I have every confidence it will be remedied though, so...
-
MattJ
Fine, -1 from me :)
-
Tobias
-1 from me too
-
MattJ
I'm sure it'll look better next week
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linuxwolf
(-:
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Kev
I'll just remember it next time someone submits a protoXEP :)
-
MattJ
Naturally :)
-
Tobias
heh
-
MattJ
I'll just set up my own standards foundation
-
Kev
Very sensible.
-
linuxwolf
indubitably
-
MattJ
as long as I can borrow this one's board chair
-
Kev
5) DMUC3
-
linuxwolf
/sigh
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Ralph Meijer
I believe the intent is clear, and yes it needs cleanup, but no I don't think that should hold it up
-
Kev
linuxwolf: What did you think we should discuss about this?
-
Ralph Meijer
that's what 'experimental' is for, imo
-
MattJ
All I can say about DMUC3 is that I want to see a discussion on it
-
linuxwolf
well, I wasn't sure if anyone would respond before this meeting, so now I'm not so sure (-:
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linuxwolf
hopefully this kicks off said discussion of DMUCn vs FMUC vs ....
-
Kev
(Yes, I'd got it to the stage where I thought it fitted "not obviously wrong", so I submitted it, I can do further work and re-submit)
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MattJ
Ralph Meijer, we've collectively blocked XEPs on editorial issues before now
-
Ralph Meijer
MattJ: right. The mail went to the standards list, I don't see much happening there yet. (on DMUC)
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Ralph Meijer
MattJ: I know, but 'we' have different views than 'I'.
-
Kev
linuxwolf: So there's nothing you want to discuss here?
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Kev
(i.e. it wasn't really for the agenda)
-
linuxwolf
if we want to resolve this, I think someone needs to be more proactive on collaboration (-:
-
linuxwolf
and by someone, I mean "preferably not me"
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
Ralph Meijer
MattJ: If you care to lookup my acceptance history, you will see that I usually lean towards 'accept'.
-
MattJ
I drafted an email to the list re. collaboration in the XSF, but considered it might be deemed too patronising
-
Kev
linuxwolf: I have on my list for the next week or so to make sure that someone (either me or someone else I can fob it off on in the office) updates FMUC to cover Wayne's points.
-
Ralph Meijer
MattJ: As I think that is a good starting point for discussion.
-
MattJ
Ralph Meijer, same here, but I don't think it's going to hurt this one waiting another week :)
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Ralph Meijer
MattJ: The dmuc stuff is an exception because of the overlap.
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linuxwolf
Kev: cool
-
Kev
So, what goes in the minutes for DMUC3. I think we essentially decided not to discuss it.
-
linuxwolf
"Kevin Smith to follow up with FMUC updates"
-
Kev
6) Date of next meeting.
-
linuxwolf
NBTBNC WFM
-
Kev
Next Tue I'm having my 'net connection faffed with, so I may well be offline.
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Ralph Meijer
Kev: yeah, I don't see this as a discussable thing now.
-
Ralph Meijer
actually, this timeslot doesn't work nicely for me
-
linuxwolf
hrm
-
Tobias
i'm quite flexible when it comes to a timeslot next week
-
Kev
Is anyone not able to do the old timeslot next week?
-
Kev
Wednesday, 1600GMT.
-
Ralph Meijer
I loved the old one
-
stpeter
:)
-
stpeter
old and new both work for me
-
linuxwolf
Ralph Meijer: the old one is oft inconvenient to me, but not unattainable (-:
-
Ralph Meijer
ah
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Is it doable next week?
-
Ralph Meijer
I work a lot evenings these days :-)
-
linuxwolf
that said, 2012-01-18T16:00Z is acceptable (-:
-
Kev
If we decide on next week now, we can discuss a general time onlist.
-
Kev
MattJ / Tobias: ?
-
Ralph Meijer
ok
-
MattJ
wfm
-
linuxwolf
16:00Z is 09:00-07:00, which is about 30 minutes before I get sucked into meetings
-
Tobias
yeha..let's discuss general time on list
-
Tobias
but 2012-01-18T16:00Z should work on the first look
-
stpeter
shall I request XEP-0077 2.4rc1 for next week?
-
stpeter
(no hurry on it)
-
linuxwolf
I dunno … we're tentatively scheduled for XEP-0045 (-:
-
stpeter
right
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Kev
stpeter: Right, sorry, we ran out of time :)
-
stpeter
Kev: no worries
-
Kev
We're over 30minutes now!
-
MattJ
Noooooo!
-
stpeter
yep
-
Kev
7) Any other business.
-
MattJ
None here
-
linuxwolf
nay
-
Kev
Ok, thanks.
-
Kev
All done then.
- Kev bangs the gavel.
-
MattJ
Thanks
-
Tobias
thx
-
Kev
We don't have room logs back yet, right MattJ?
-
MattJ
Correct
- Ralph Meijer sads
-
MattJ
A deadline I was working towards passed yesterday, I'm hoping to start catching up with normal things now
-
Astro
did the deadline make a «swoosh» when it passed by? ;-)
- stpeter laughs
-
linuxwolf
was the deadline a train (swoosh) or a bullet (zing)? (-:
-
MattJ
Amazingly I'd everything ready 10 minutes early :)
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stpeter
Kev: thanks for the quick minutes
-
Ralph Meijer
hehe, that reminds me of Zaagmans: http://www.dwotd.nl/2009/11/675-zagen.html
-
Ralph Meijer
(at 'Extra')
-
Kev
stpeter: I wrote them as we met, for a change.
-
stpeter
good thinking :)
-
stpeter
brb
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Kev
Remember everyone, we need new blurbs for the Council page on xmpp.org.
-
linuxwolf
"Matt has been involved with the Jabber community since late 2000, has been a member of the XSF since its inception in 2001, and has previously served on the 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06, and 2010-2011 Councils. Matt is a senior engineer and architect of XMPP client libraries for Cisco, Inc. and was previously a Professional Services Engineer and client developer for Jabber, Inc."
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Kev
Updated, merci.
-
louiz’
de rien
- stpeter books his flights to Brussels
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- linuxwolf ponders a reply to DANE
- stpeter has already replied
- linuxwolf hoped as much
- stpeter isn't feeling so well and is hoping that lunch might help
- linuxwolf notes that a season illness has been making the rounds in the office
- stpeter wonders what the record is for the number of consecutive groupchat messages beginning with '/me'
- linuxwolf recalls an time period greater than 2 hours where the jdev chatroom was nothing but /me
- stpeter thinks that processing ProtoXEPs and XEP patches is a good activity to complete in his woozy state of mind
- Zash whispers MAM
-
stpeter
the next Council meeting is 7 days from today, or 8 days from today?
-
linuxwolf
8? … 2011-01-18T16:00:00Z
-
stpeter
right
-
stpeter
just verifying
-
stpeter
I might as well update the calendar while I'm doing XEP stuff
-
linuxwolf
apparently I can only deal with absolutes
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
linuxwolf
grazie
-
stpeter
linuxwolf: sure thing!
-
stpeter
linuxwolf: I notice that I never processed your patch about the council note, I'm happy to do that now, too
-
linuxwolf
oh, really?
-
stpeter
it arrived not long before the winter holidays
-
linuxwolf
well, since there was no objections, that would be great
-
stpeter
yepper
-
linuxwolf
I already lost my local copy of it
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kev
Sorry, I vaguely recall seeing that and put off processing it for some reason.
-
Kev
Inbox zero has 168 threads in it at the moment (for my personal account).
-
linuxwolf
well, it was delivered rather close to the holidays
-
Kev
I should take a day of holiday to sort out my inbox. Problem being that if I have a day of holiday, sorting my inbox is one of the last things I'd want to do with it.
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
Kev
Heh. Did you just publish MUC Fast Reconnect Peter? :)
-
linuxwolf
I thought MattJ and Tobias were −1 to publishing MFR?
- Kev ^5s linuxwolf
-
stpeter
oh
-
stpeter
sigh
-
linuxwolf
HA! Proof that stpeter is a human being!
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
Kev
Nevermind. I'll sort it out tomorrow, I expect.
-
Kev
linuxwolf: I don't see why that follows.
-
stpeter
oh we've got plenty of evidence of that :P
-
stpeter
I make plenty of mistakes
-
linuxwolf
mostly because he's treated as infallible around the office (-:
-
linuxwolf
at least by some
-
stpeter
they're wrong!
-
linuxwolf
inevitably
-
stpeter
I think I might leave the office early today so I can prep for my conference call at 17:00...
-
Kev
Go home get rest.
-
linuxwolf
your boss is out-of-town … play hooky!
-
stpeter
heh
-
stpeter
linuxwolf: I can invite you to join this IRI design team call at 5 if you'd like :)
-
linuxwolf
uh no.
-
linuxwolf
Wait, let me think- no
-
linuxwolf
your term is up at the end of March, right?
-
stpeter
yepper
- linuxwolf is preferring the mobile-version over the desktop-version of websites lately
-
stpeter
yeah
-
stpeter
I optimized my personal website for mobile recently
-
linuxwolf
good for you
-
stpeter
desktop versions are too cluttered
-
linuxwolf
by far
-
stpeter
of course, I busted all my feeds when I did that ;-)
-
linuxwolf
and the mobile versions are just as capable
-
linuxwolf
heh
- stpeter makes a note to check out http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ later today
-
linuxwolf
interesting
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MattJ
Guess which XMPP server they're planning on using
-
linuxwolf
jabberd1
- linuxwolf ducks
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linuxwolf
that's great
-
stpeter
really?
-
MattJ
Yeah
-
MattJ
I was watching one of their talks
-
stpeter
sigh
-
stpeter
nothing like being on the cutting edge
-
MattJ
and he said they were planning on using "pro-soh-dee"
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
MattJ
It was the first time I'd heard it pronounced *that* way
-
MattJ
It took me a rewind and a minute to be sure I hadn't misheard
- linuxwolf thinks of how he pronounces it
-
stpeter
vs. pro-zoh-dee?
-
linuxwolf
prah-zah-dee?
-
linuxwolf
pro-zah-dee?
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MattJ
I never knew there were so many ways to say it
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
MattJ
or spell it, for that matter
-
Zash
pråsådyh
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linuxwolf
you'll have to add an official pronunciation MP3 to prosody.im (_:
-
Zash
Wasn't there one already?
-
MattJ
There is
-
linuxwolf
gah
-
linuxwolf
really?
-
MattJ
Really :)
-
Zash
No
-
Zash
matthew-wild-says-prosody.ogg
-
MattJ
Ha
-
Zash
not mp3 ;)
-
linuxwolf
there's no link on the mainpage, or the FAQ
-
MattJ
It's not an FAQ :P
-
MattJ
People just assume they're right
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
MattJ
and to be honest, I don't really care how people say it...
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce 'prosody'?"
-
MattJ
NO!
-
Zash
Haha
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
linuxwolf
now there's a meme we can start at the XMPP Summits!
-
linuxwolf
"How do you pronounce <insert-project-name>?"
-
louiz’
“pro” “zo” “dee”
-
stpeter
well, it comes from Greek προσῳδία and σ in Greek is "ess"
-
Zash
The what
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Zash
linuxwolf: *approval*
-
MattJ
Therefore I bow to stpeter's pronunciation of Prosody
- Zash submits formal request for 'peter-saint-andre-says-prosody.ogg'
-
stpeter
I just like an excuse to use Greek letters :)
-
louiz’
:D
-
louiz’
+1 Zash
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Ralph Meijer
"Ralph Meijer is the lead developer of several Jabber-related projects and services, including Wokkel <http://wokkel.ik.nu/> and the XMPP support in Twisted <http://www.twistedmatrix.com/>, the Idavoll <http://idavoll.ik.nu/> pubsub component, and Planet Jabber <http://planet.jabber.org/>. Ralph <http://ralphm.net/> has been member of the XMPP Council since 2004 and is a platform engineer for Mochi Media <http://www.mochimedia.com/>."
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ralphm
Also "zimpy" is my favorite.
-
Kev
Updated, ta.
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Ralph Meijer
Kev: there should be a space in front of 'Wokkel'
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Tobias
"Tobias Markmann is an occaisonal contributer to various XMPP projects including <a href="http://prosody.im/>Prosody</a> and <a href="http://swift.im/">Swift</a>. He has also initiated the <a href="http://code.google.com/p/xmppench/">xmppench</a> project, a XMPP server benchmark tool. Tobias joined the XMPP Council late 2011.<br/> His blog can be found at <a href="http://ayena.de/">ayena.de</a>."
-
Tobias
Kev, how is this for starters? ^^
-
Ralph Meijer
occasional
-
Ralph Meijer
contributor
-
Tobias
ouch
-
Tobias
aside from tons of typos..i shouldn't write such things that late
-
Tobias
thx
-
Ralph Meijer
hehe
-
linuxwolf
(-:
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