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m&m
is there a council meeting tomorrow?
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m&m
from the logs, it looks like there is
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stpeter
done (board too)
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Kev
Sorry, I've been unwell. I think I'll be able to do Council later, but if I don't make it - apologies.
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Tobias
Get well.
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Tobias
if it helps your condition there are somd patches to review ^^
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Tobias
bbl
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Kev
Ah. I guess I should have sent out an agenda.
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m&m
(-:
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Kev
Righty.
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Kev
I've poked Ralph.
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Tobias
k
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MattJ
Present
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Kev
1) Roll call
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Tobias
here
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Kev
-1 to MattJ for top-posting :)
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MattJ
:P
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m&m
haha
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m&m
presente
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stpeter
sort of here :-)
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ralphm
Present. And what Kev said
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MattJ
I was pipelining
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Tobias
haha
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MattJ
+1
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Kev
2) Move for MattJ to buy cakes for everyone
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m&m
+1
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ralphm
+1
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Tobias
+1
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Kev
+1
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m&m
don't forget international shipping costs!
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Kev
:D
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Kev
2b) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/last-seen-online.html Accept as Experimental?
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Kanchil
Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/last-seen-online.html: XEP-XXXX: Last Presence using Delayed Delivery
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Tobias
+1, typo fixes will follow when it's in the repo
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m&m
no objections
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Kev
Minor issue in that it's not legal by 6121 :p
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Kev
Clients can't send probes.
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Tobias
who are you , the XMPP police?
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Tobias
Kev, is that a MUST NOT or a SHOULD NOT?
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Kev
SHOULD
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Tobias
SHOULD was allowed when there one knows what one is doing, right?
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ralphm
I was just looking at that indeed
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Kev
"Presence probes SHOULD NOT be sent by a client, because in general a client will not need to send them since the task of gathering presence from a user's contacts is managed by the user's server. However, if a user's client generates an outbound presence probe then the user's server SHOULD route the probe (if the contact is at another server) or process the probe (if the contact is at the same server) and MUST NOT use its receipt of the presence probe from a connected client as the sole cause for returning a stanza or stream error to the client."
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stpeter
arguably that would be more appropriate as an "ought not"
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ralphm
process the probe is a problem
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ralphm
for this protocol
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Kev
ralphm: Is it?
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m&m
I think this protocol is legal for the letter of 6121
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ralphm
You don't want any caching or whatever here.
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m&m
it might not fit the spirit
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ralphm
by the server, when responding to the probe
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ralphm
(if it processes it)
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m&m
ralphm: if I (linuxwolf@outer-planes.net) probe my wife (wifey@outer-planes.net), why would it send a probe?
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m&m
[note: one of those is not a real jid]
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Kev
Because it has no sense of personal boundaries.
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Kev
You didn't want a serious answer, right? :p
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Kev
Anyway, I'm not opposed to pushing it to Experimental, but might need more persuading that it's good to go to Draft.
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m&m
well, I kind of wanted to prove a point about users on the same server, but whatever (-:
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ralphm
m&m: you might be right, never mind then
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ralphm
not opposed
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m&m
the server's going to cache some stuff, or it would be constantly probing connected clients
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ralphm
right
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Kev
MattJ: ?
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m&m
personally, I'm ok with this, but an explanation of why it bends the SHOULD NOT from 6121
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m&m
and maybe a discussion on performance and security ramifications
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Tobias
will add a sentence or two for that
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ralphm
but wait
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ralphm
this is about the uptime of servers and components
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Kev
Yes.
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Tobias
ralphm, also
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ralphm
those are not really bound by 6121 are they?
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Kev
ralphm: The client is bound by not doing things that 6121 tells it not to.
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ralphm
hm yeah
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Kev
I think MattJ's wandered off, so...
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Kev
3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/last-user-in-presence.html
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Kanchil
Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/last-user-in-presence.html: XEP-XXXX: Last User Interaction in Presence
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m&m
I still say run it up the flag pole and see who salutes
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ralphm
I guess we wanted to discourage to avoid presence probe storms
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Kev
m&m: Yes, I agree.
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stpeter
in 6121bis I'll change that to "there's really no reason for the client to send probes, because the server does that on its behalf" :P
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Kev
OK.
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Kev
I'm +1 on (3).
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ralphm
Not opposed
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MattJ
I'm +1 on (2) and (3)
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m&m
other than the illegal protocol, I've no objections
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Tobias
+1
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Tobias
m&m, illegal protocol?
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Kev
show>available?
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m&m
("available" is not one of the enumerated show values)
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Tobias
yeah..typos
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Tobias
will fix those
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ralphm
hehe
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m&m
(-:
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Tobias
i falsely expected the IETF to publish consistent documents ^^
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m&m
next thing you know, he's introduce <presence type='available'/>, or even <presence type='invisible'/> (-:
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m&m
Tobias: pffth
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ralphm
<priority>-128</priority>
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Kev
I think that's all of us.
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m&m
<priority>65356</priority>
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Kev
I've got a 0.2 of 308 waiting for our esteemed Editor to publish :)
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stpeter
oh yeah
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m&m
yay!
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stpeter
I saw that
- stpeter processes
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Kev
I don't really think the LC feedback was substantive enough to justify a second LC for that.
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Kev
4) Do we need another LC for 308?
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Kev
I think it was pretty much a tightening of language and adding detail so it's not worth it.
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Kev
But we can issue another LC if people want.
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MattJ
Is there a diff somewhere?
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m&m
I think you're right, but I'd like to see the diff first
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Tobias
MattJ, the diff tool should be working again
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Kev
http://gitorious.org/xmpp/xmpp/commit/3a09ba0ef53087de391985bd9439b8df60840a25/diffs/e68bc9404d260908b9f9c9060f5a4413cbdf9b7f
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Kanchil
Kev: http://gitorious.org/xmpp/xmpp/commit/3a09ba0ef53087de391985bd9439b8df60840a25/diffs/e68bc9404d260908b9f9c9060f5a4413cbdf9b7f: Gitorious
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ralphm
Kanchil: so helpful
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Kev
Yeah. Sometimes that feature's handy. Other times, not so much.
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ralphm
I like the namespace registration bit change, THIS PROTOXEP
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Kev
So, shall we issue another LC, or vote on moving this to draft next meeting?
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m&m
I need time to read it
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MattJ
LGTM
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MattJ
I'm fine with delaying, no need to rush it now
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Kev
m&m: I'm not asking you to vote now, only if we should plan to LC it or plan to vote on it for next meeting.
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Kev
But we can delay that too if you want.
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m&m
I understand that, but I kind of wanted to peruse it before deciding (-:
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Kev
Tell you what - I'll shove a vote on Draft to the next agenda unless you get in touch to say we need another LC instead.
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m&m
we could just declare the vote starts meeting, and I could −1 if I really object
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m&m
wfm
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Kev
OK.
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Kev
5) Date of next.
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Kev
Next week?
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ralphm
+1
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Kev
IETF is the one after, right?
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m&m
I'm not available
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m&m
IETF is the week after, I was taking a short holiday immediately preceding
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Kev
OK. So three weeks, then?
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Tobias
next week wfm
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Kev
Tobias: Do keep up, 007.
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ralphm
I am good for any week for the forseeable future
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Tobias
Kev, will do
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Kev
Let's do three weeks today, then, when Matt and Peter will be recovered from the IETF :)
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stpeter
wfm
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Tobias
k
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m&m
heh, "recovered"
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m&m
wfm
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ralphm
i.e. until I have found a new gig
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Kev
m&m: Repossessed? :p
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ralphm
heh, I'm sure IETF does need recovery time
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Kev
6) AOB?
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Tobias
stpeter, don't do that
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Tobias
here: what about deprecating XEP-0012? any requirements for this? should any of the new XEPs have a note about it or so?
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Tobias
stpeter, seems to work now..strange...didn't work a minute agao
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stpeter
Tobias: so I noticed
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Kev
Tobias: I don't think we do anything about it until the new ones are more mature.
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Tobias
Kev, oki dokey
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m&m
exactly
-
Kev
Although you can add notes saying "Intend to ..." to the new ones if you want.
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m&m
the others need to get to draft first, I think
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Tobias
m&m, ah..good to know
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stpeter
Kev: XEP-0308 updated
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m&m
w00t
-
stpeter
brb
-
Kev
stpeter: Ta muchly.
-
Kev
No AOB?
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m&m
none from me
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m&m
and stpeter wandered away irl
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Tobias
mine was just answered
-
Kev
Longest Council meeting for ages, nearly the full 30 mins!
-
Kev
Right, we're done.
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Tobias
28 on my clock
-
Kev
Thanks all :)
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Tobias
yay
-
Tobias
thank you
- Kev returns to convalescing :)
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stpeter
so March 20 for the next meeting, right?
-
Kev
Sounds about right.
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Kev
Yes, March 20th.
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stpeter
calendar updated
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ralphm
yay
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ralphm
the start of spring
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stpeter
North America will be on Daylight Saving Time by then, I think
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ralphm
yes
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ralphm
and europe not
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stpeter
so we yanks will try not to get confused
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Kev
31st March the Council times will change :D
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Tobias
UTC FTW :)
-
Kev
(Which is when GB changes)
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Tobias
don't know when DE changes, but my clock will probably tell me
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ralphm
all of europe changes at the same time
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Tobias
ralphm, really? didn't know that
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stpeter
it's be awfully confusing otherwise
-
Tobias
stpeter, that hasn't stopped civilisation from doing so anyway
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ralphm
Tobias: yes. In fact where the UK changes at 01:00, CET changes at 02:00 and so on
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