KevAgenda is all of the stuck-at-proposed XEPs, plus your patch.
Tobiasahh
KevI fear I'll have reviewed none of it and have to vote on list.
KevEspecially the 301 changes. Has anyone other than me reviewed that properly?
Tobiashaven't yet..but can do so till next week
Tobiasif that's still worth anything
KevGot a fortnight to vote after today.
Tobiasok..will do that then
MattJLikewise
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m&mso are we on like Donkey Kong?
Tobiasin 9 minutes i think
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m&mright
ralphmm&m: quoting Ice Cube, huh?
MattJI pretend it's still 15:00
maineboyhowdy
ralphmMattJ: me too
MattJHowdy maineboy
maineboyis really stpeter but this is a backup backup account ;-)
MattJGuessed :)
m&mI am a child of the 80's
ralphm:-D
Tobiasmaineboy, still haven't fixed your prosody instance?
maineboyTobias: not yet
MattJYes, very strange stuff going on there...
maineboyTobias: I need to make that a priority, but I have so many priorities...
maineboyMattJ: I might need to reinstall the OS ;-)
Tobiasheh
maineboyI suppose I could at least have joined the room using my @cisco.com account to be semi-official
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ralphmmaineboy: are you the real stpeter?
stpeterralphm: yes, just a different account
ralphmstpeter: and how can we tell?
stpeterright, that's the question
stpeterI can update a page at https://stpeter.im for you or send a PGP-signed message to council@xmpp.org if you'd like :-)
ralphmstpeter: what's the single must-visit attraction while in Brussels?
stpeterof course, someone else could have gotten control over stpeter's machine, learned his 40+ character PGP password, and is now sending messages as him :-)
KevBlip.
stpeterbut I did send a PGP-signed message to council@ for you ;-)
stpeterof course
ralphmpfft
stpeterhow do we really know who people are?
ralphmlet's start
m&mtime
ralphmI'm here
Kev1) Roll call.
stpeteridentity is hard :-)
Kevralphm: hoorah for pipelining? :)
m&mactually present for once
MattJHere
Tobiashere
KevI'm here!
Kev2) Tobias did http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0082/diff/1.0/vs/1.1 ages ago. OK if we raise that one now?
KevWhere 'now' means 'on list in the next fortnight', I imagine.
KevActually, it's so short, we can just read it now.
MattJ+1
Kev+1
MattJI just read it
Tobias+1
stpeterah, that's better, yes
ralphm+1
m&mnrm
ralphmactually, many of my contacts appear to live in california, as all their mail comes in PDT
stpeterPDT is the new GMT
m&mthis is better .. but I do wonder if "SHOULD covert" would be better than "are advised to convert"
m&mbut, this is a definite improvement, so I'm +1
ralphmm&m: that would make it normative
m&mright
ralphmm&m: a bit too strong, I think
m&mgiven it's a security concern, I don't think it's too strong
KevI don't think SHOULD is strictly needed, although I don't have terribly strong feelings on the matter.
MattJHmm
KevGiven a full house of +1, let's publish this, and it can be further wordsmithed in 1.2 :)
m&mexactly
MattJA client might want to change to a random timezone for security purposes
m&mheh
KevSo, on the the XEPs-stuck-at-proposed:
ralphmMattJ: Like +0:19
stpeterheh
Kev3) XEP-0301: In-Band Real Time Text
Move to Draft?
MattJWhy this one first? :P
KevI need to go through this and check the responses to all my comments from last time.
MattJI'll vote on-list
m&msame as MattJ
Tobiaswill vote on list within a week
ralphmAOL
m&mwants to use the IST timezone
KevI would recommend that anyone who hasn't yet done a full review of this version schedules it early in the cycle, because I've spent man-weeks on it at this point, it's not fast.
Kev4) XEP-0297: Stanza Forwarding
Draft?
m&mright
stpeterlikes the reverse-numerical order
m&mI had an outstanding comment that was not addressed … but I cannot remember where that is now
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KevI have doubts about the authors for this one, but it seems ok despite that disadvantage.
MattJStory with 297... last call happened, feedback was received, and I incorporated it into a new version (0.5)
MattJThen Dave gave some more feedback on that version: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2013-June/027623.html
KevMattJ: OK, so that's punting this and bringing 0.5 later, OK.
m&mmaybe that's my problem … I didn't read 0.5 yet (-:
TobiasKev, does it have implementations?
KevTobias: anyone doing MAM.
Tobiasah..ok
MattJI don't know whether it should still head to draft, or wait for me to address these concerns (which I haven't fully reviewed)
KevMattJ: At least 0.5 should be published first :)
KevSo we can Deal With This Later.
MattJIt is
KevHmm.
ralphmso the author doesn't think it is ready. Cool
KevI see 0.4 on xmpp.org
MattJIt isn't!
stpeterBTW, the issue of forwarding (and max-forwards / loop prevention) came up in the STOX WG at the IETF, since SIP has loop-prevention methods in place but XMPP doesn't
stpeterhmm, yeah, was the XEP Editor remiss about http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0297.html ?
MattJI think I'm +1, but it's been a while so I'll say on list
m&mI will vote on list for −0288
ralphmKev: I'd like that, we don't have many of those
Tobiasvote on list for that too
ralphmI have to review all the s2s stuff still
KevI keep wanting to do a clean-room implementation of 220 and 288, but I keep failing to find time. Which is a shame.
Kev6) XEP-0220: Server Dialback
On list.
fippoi still have a patch for 0288 to address the feedback from zash and need to pester my co-author about the other issue raised by michal vaner. but those don't touch the substance
KevOr rather.
Kev6) XEP-0220: Server Dialback
ralphmKev: same. I have a dial back implementation in Wokkel, but it sucks
KevI need to vote on-list.
m&mKev: same
MattJIs 220 still ready for draft?
MattJI still see lots of discussion going on
stpeterIMHO 220 is ready for Final :P
MattJHeh
KevI did review 220 the other week, but I'll do it again.
stpeterI still think it should've been Draft when we copied it over from a Proposed Standard RFC, but hey
Kevstpeter: Well, I found an issue during last review :p
fippokev: your schema bug was fixed
Kevfippo: Yep, ta :)
stpeterKev: there are issues with RFC 6120, too ;-)
KevDon't tell anyone.
MattJstpeter, when you put it that way, you're right.... what are we even discussing?
Kev7) XEP-0152: Reachability Addresses
KevI will also on-list this one.
stpeterwell, I'd like to make sure it's in good shape, but perfection is not necessary for Draft status
m&mditto
MattJKev, incomplete last call I think? Only Lance replied
stpeterand dialback has certainly been deployed for almost 13 years now ;-)
KevMattJ: Ah, still?
MattJafaict
MattJm&m, did I imagine that you were using this for something?
m&mI was using reachability?
KevI thought we had a protoxep to vote on, but I can't find it. Maybe I'm thinking of dynamic forms. M&M: Did you send your objections on-list for that one?
MattJm&m, if not than I imagined it :)
m&mI have not yet, but I am doing it now
KevOK, thanks.
stpeterreachability addresses are relevant to any CUSAX client, but I haven't yet convinced developers of CUSAX clients at Cisco to add the feature
m&mI can see uses for reachability, but I don't have anything concrete
m&mand what maineboy said
KevI think that takes us to 9) Next meeting.
MattJ+1
KevSBTSBC? We seem to just about cope with 20 minute meetings.
ralphmstpeter: jbox
stpetersee for instance http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-07#section-3.3
Kanchilstpeter: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-07#section-3.3:
draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-07 - CUSAX: Combined Use of the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) and the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP)
m&mKev: +1 on 9)
stpeterralphm: hehe, I was just talking about jbox the other day with temas ;-)
Kevstpeter: I wonder if you could get any CUSAX people to express an opinion, then?
TobiasKev, wfm
Kevand item 10) Any other business?
ralphmstpeter: how many implementations are there?
stpeterKev: I've also poked the Jitsi folks about it, but will do so again
KevOther than kicking us all out and replacing us with newer, younger versions.
Peter WaherI have one question
KevAlthough I think that's probably not really Council business as much as Alex's.
KevPeter Waher: shoot.
ralphmKev: us roolz
Peter WaherI received a mail from UPnP members forum, stating a cooperation between UPnP+cloud and XMPP was underfoot
Peter Waherany information you can share?
fippostpeter: i might implement it if your @cisco account announces it ;-)
Peter WaherI would be interested to participate in any such work
KevPeter Waher: stpeter's your man, I think.
ralphmPeter Waher: that's nice
fippokev: no, he's his (maine)boy
Peter Waherit relates to the IoT-effort we're working on
Kevfippo: Ho ho ho.
Kevstpeter: Weren't you involved in this?
Peter Waherany information you could share would be appreciated
stpeterPeter Waher: as far as I know that is not public information yet, so I haven't said anything
KevOK.
KevI guess that means we're done, then?
stpeterPeter Waher: is there something published on their website about it?
Peter Waherfor UPnP members
stpeterhttp://upnp.org/news/press_releases/ hasn't been updated yet
Kanchilstpeter: http://upnp.org/news/press_releases/:
UPnP Forum
stpetersure, but we're not UPnP members here
stpeteras soon as they go public with it, I'd be happy to talk
KevRight, I'll take that as done for the meeting.
KevThanks all!
MattJThanks Kev :)
Kevbangeth the gavel
Tobiasthnaks Kev
Tobiasthanks Kev
Peter Waherok
Peter WaherI'll be waiting for any comments on the dynamic forms also
Peter Waherwaiting to respond
KevPeter Waher: Thanks.
stpeterCouncil calendar updated with meetings for September
stpeterhttp://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0297.html updated too
m&mawaits minutes, so he can add a smorgasbord of TODOs
m&m(-:
Tobiasstpeter, do all initials in the change history need to be listed in the authors section?
m&m/-:
stpeterTobias: are you asking as a general policy matter and do you have an example?
Tobiasstpeter, xep-0082 http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0082/diff/1.0/vs/1.1 i barely added what other people suggested ;)
stpeterah
stpeterhmm yes
Tobiasok
stpeterBTW I don't know why I'm listed as an author on XEP-0297 either ;-)
Tobiassame goes for quite a lot papers in the scientific community it seems :/
stpeterTobias: that's a good question — especially for XEPs that are in maintenance mode
stpeterI've certainly fixed things in older XEPs and didn't add myself as a co-author, although usually I'm already an author on all that stuff ;-)
Tobiasright
stpeterand sometimes we take over specifications from people who have disappeared, and the new maintainer is added as a co-author if they make some significant changes
stpeterwe might want to be clearer about our policies in such cases
stpeterand also figure out how to do more "collective authorship" (e.g., Council members or XSF members or other help out with fixing bugs like the one in XEP-0082)
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maineboy:P
Kevmaineboy: Are your other accounts still having issues on the server?
maineboyalthough Adium (which I'm using here) always shows me as "Peter Saint-Andre"
maineboyKev: AFAICT yes
KevCurious. As we had an 'automatic restart' earlier.
maineboybut that's off-topic for this chatroom
MattJmaineboy, you provided the schema for 297 :)
maineboyBTW, I'll note that draft-ietf-precis-framework is now in Working Group Last Call, which means that draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis (the addressing / i18n stuff) will go to WGLC before too long, too
ralphmmaineboy: how did those tests against our stringpreps go?
maineboyMattJ: ah, schemas are purely a mechanical exercise IMHO, just add me to the acknowledgements
Kevmaineboy: It is, but you're not my friend on that account :)
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maineboyralphm: I have some Python code to help me check codepoint handling, but I haven't applied them directly to the XMPP cases yet
ralphmoh
maineboyso I need to dig into the Python again and finish that up
maineboyalso need to do some planning for the XMPP Summit
ralphmight
ralphmright
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MattJralphm, how's FOSDEM looking?
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maineboysigh, I have a lot of Internet-Drafts to finish up by the end of the year … http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/petersaint-andre.html
Kanchilmaineboy: http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/petersaint-andre.html:
Peter Saint-Andre Data (all documents)