XMPP Council - 2013-09-11

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15:04:06 stpeter la la la
15:07:43 m&m ho ho ho
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15:08:50 stpeter T-3 minutes?
15:08:53 Tobias meeting today?
15:08:54 m&m ayup
15:09:01 stpeter I know Kev sent his regrets
15:09:06 m&m there is one agenda item, I think
15:09:11 Tobias the protoxep?
15:09:17 m&m http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html
15:09:19 Kanchil m&m: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html: XEP-xxxx: Jingle SDP Content
15:09:24 Tobias the one that said we have to find technical arguments to decline it :P
15:09:46 Dave Cridland Yes, Fippo's even more unhappy about how it turned out than he thought.
15:10:27 stpeter it = ?
15:10:33 Tobias is "SDP has cooties" technical enough?
15:10:37 m&m I only glanced at it, but it is a little smelly
15:10:44 stpeter Tobias: :-)
15:10:59 m&m SDP has enough cooties, this really multiplies them
15:11:40 m&m it looks like the pairing of the worst parts of two things
15:12:15 m&m pings one of the MattJ's
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15:12:37 Tobias i don't see ralph online
15:12:48 m&m he's away
15:12:50 Tobias ahh
15:13:10 m&m well, tis time
15:13:18 m&m bangs gavel
15:13:23 m&m 0) Roll Call
15:13:35 MattJ Here
15:13:40 Tobias present
15:13:43 m&m presente
15:13:46 m&m we at least have quorum
15:14:01 m&m 1) <http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html> Accept as Experimental?
15:14:37 m&m I'm disinclined to accept this if the author doesn't want it
15:15:06 stpeter the author doesn't want it? I missed that
15:15:15 Tobias that was the tone of his last message
15:15:34 m&m From Philipp Hancke: council: please reject this (with a technical argument, not just because it's ugly)
15:15:38 MattJ We're supposed to reject it for technical reasons though :)
15:16:01 Dave Cridland I think you should accept it.
15:16:10 MattJ I was waiting for someone to say that
15:16:11 Dave Cridland Think how annoyed he'd be.
15:16:23 m&m then he can retract it
15:16:26 m&m or not
15:16:34 stpeter isn't the Jingle / RTC SIG supposed to be deciding what to do here?
15:16:39 Dave Cridland Forgot this'd be in the logs, though. :-)
15:16:43 MattJ I believed so
15:16:52 m&m that was my understanding
15:17:14 MattJ I'm not sure what the consensus is yet (author's opinion aside)
15:17:16 Dave Cridland We've had virtually no list activity in a few weeks; I was hoping that people would have come back with the work they offered to do by now.
15:17:29 m&m you have to prod
15:17:48 Dave Cridland Yes, I know. But a combination of summer and IETF has meant I haven't.
15:17:53 stpeter everyone is rivited by ongoing security scandals and has no energy for trivialities like RTC :P
15:18:02 MattJ :D
15:18:04 m&m best with something electrified
15:18:25 Dave Cridland This submission is going to be my key to reinvigorating things, I hope.
15:18:41 m&m then "no objections" from me
15:18:52 m&m I don't have a good technical argument against it at this time
15:19:13 m&m Tobias? MattJ?
15:19:44 MattJ I...
15:19:55 stpeter if we're going to publish Jingle-SDP, then IMHO we also need to publish SoX -- I'm not fond of either, but they're just about equally hideous
15:19:55 MattJ don't object
15:20:05 Dave Cridland I think the principle problem with the proposal is that the only thing it really adds is SDP syntax - it gains nothing in terms of interop.
15:20:08 m&m stpeter: agreed
15:20:16 MattJ Can we change the text for "experimental" back again? :)
15:20:33 Dave Cridland SoX clearly does have some merit - in as much as it can be used to tunnel SIP though an XMPP network.
15:21:48 m&m well, I've no problems publishing both
15:21:49 Tobias m&m, if it doesn't provide any value why accept it? like dave says...it adds nothing in terms of interop
15:22:03 MattJ Interop with whom?
15:22:26 stpeter I didn't say Jingle-SDP has no merit, I just say it's ugly :-)
15:22:59 MattJ Dave Cridland, will it help or hinder the Jingle SIG to have this accepted?
15:23:04 Dave Cridland MattJ, Anyone. You can't use jingle-sdp except to talk to other jingle-sdp speakers, of course, but in order to use it you need to parse and understand SDP; you can't just blindly take an SDP (or SIP) blob and throw it across the network.
15:23:24 Dave Cridland MattJ, I don't think it'll make any difference.
15:23:58 Dave Cridland MattJ, The only complication would be if people treated it as anything more than a discussion point.
15:23:58 MattJ So it won't make any difference, and we're not convinced it's a good approach to the problem, there are no existing implementations (right?)...
15:24:17 MattJ and there is a risk of someone implementing it while experimental
15:24:32 Dave Cridland MattJ, Right.
15:24:33 m&m Dave Cridland: as the not-a-chair for the Jingle-SDP, is your opinion to publish or not?
15:24:41 MattJ Especially since we just changed our text to encourage them to :)
15:25:01 MattJ In which case I think I'd rather not publish
15:25:43 Dave Cridland m&m, If we had a true equivalent of a published draft, I'd stick with that. As it is, having it in the protoxep record is sufficient for the SIG's need, and a real XEP may confuse the issue.
15:26:37 m&m so, on the advice of the SIG, we can reject this proposal at this time
15:26:54 Tobias +1 on that
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15:27:23 m&m ok. I suppose Kev and Ralph have a fortnight to respond, but that might be moot
15:27:48 m&m who wants to send the notice of non-acceptance to the list?
15:28:21 MattJ I can
15:28:34 m&m gracias
15:28:41 m&m 2) Next Meeting
15:29:18 stpeter SBTSBC?
15:29:21 Tobias +1
15:29:39 m&m SBTSBC is assumed, unless anyone has apologies to note now
15:29:51 MattJ None
15:30:00 m&m 3) Any Other Business
15:30:25 Tobias none here
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15:30:46 MattJ Uh-oh
15:31:06 MattJ :)
15:31:11 m&m going once
15:31:28 m&m going twice
15:31:36 stpeter oh
15:31:39 Dave Cridland I'd note as a general item we need to hunt candidates for council and board.
15:31:43 stpeter any input on LC items?
15:32:00 m&m I'm working through −301
15:32:02 stpeter Dave Cridland: agreed
15:32:06 m&m I have a lot of nits
15:32:07 Tobias stpeter, i'll look at the none RTT ones the next days
15:32:14 m&m Dave Cridland: noted!
15:32:20 stpeter recruiting for the Board is always a challenge
15:32:39 m&m maybe if you offered actual cookies
15:33:23 Dave Cridland Oh, and Summit...
15:33:33 stpeter oh yes
15:33:36 m&m status?
15:33:41 Dave Cridland Apparently there'll be four people there.
15:33:50 Dave Cridland I'm wondering whether to make it 5.
15:34:02 Dave Cridland But that may mean finding a bigger table.
15:34:11 stpeter Inky does XMPP? or you just want to visit Portland again? ;-)
15:34:21 Dave Cridland Mostly just like Portland.
15:34:29 Dave Cridland That is, Portland³.
15:35:26 stpeter but yes some marketing is needed
15:35:41 stpeter I'll do some more pokage by end of week
15:36:21 m&m I doubt I'd be able to make it
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15:36:47 m&m anything else
15:36:52 m&m notes we're 5 minutes over
15:37:20 stpeter nothing else here
15:37:36 fippo thanks for not accepting jingle-sdp ;-)
15:37:37 m&m bangs gavel
15:37:44 stpeter heh
15:37:45 m&m fippo: it was close, though
15:37:58 m&m we almost accepted because of your insistence we not
15:38:34 m&m stpeter: will you be in the office later today?
15:38:38 fippo mh... I need to make a note on trying reverse psychology against the current council
15:38:59 stpeter fippo: :)
15:39:14 m&m of course, now that you've noted that, we'll note it ourselves
15:39:14 stpeter m&m: I'm in the office now, but not later :P
15:39:26 m&m stpeter: hrm
15:39:41 stpeter reminds me of the old Mad magazine stuff about spy vs. anti-spy vs. anti-anti-spy...
15:39:46 m&m heh
15:39:47 stpeter m&m: we can chat IRL :P
15:40:30 m&m stpeter: but I like using non-obvious channels! Gives the the various TLAs more places to look!
15:40:48 Dave Cridland m&m, There are four-letter acronyms at play in this space too.
15:41:00 stpeter OK, I'll text you about the smoke signals I would send except it's so rainy today
15:41:27 m&m and I'll start a hangout about the drumbeats in response to your text on the smoke signals
15:41:41 stpeter laughs
15:41:54 stpeter brb
15:41:56 m&m then we can tweet it and maybe even like it
15:42:27 Dave Cridland "I'll post on Facebook and you'll like it." - always sounds like a parent telling off, to me.
15:46:48 MattJ Oh! Forgot AOB - I'm owing a vote on 301
15:47:02 MattJ I'll post to the ist
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16:20:26 m&m all of the votes were pushed off by 1 week
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16:53:43 stpeter BTW, Ralph sent regrets to me on an IM account I hadn't logged into before the Council meeting
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17:25:48 Tobias so..what do you guys think about a xep for pinning certs? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 isn't going to be adapted soon by TLS implementations and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-08 is http specific
17:25:50 Kanchil Tobias: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02: draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 - Trust Assertions for Certificate Keys
17:27:52 Lance Tobias: would this be for s2s or c2s?
17:28:15 Tobias why not both
17:28:20 Tobias :)
17:28:40 Lance sure :) i just dont always have access to the needed info for c2s implementations
17:29:09 Lance glares at python's incomplete stdlib openssl bindings
17:29:12 Tobias PyTLS (or what's it called) allows access to cert fingerprints
17:29:15 Tobias not?
17:29:24 Tobias or i've been looking at the wrong lib some days ago
17:29:35 Lance oh, ok. i can do fingerprints in python
17:30:04 Lance now glares at browsers for not exposing cert information to JS
17:30:24 Lance so, yeah. +1 go for it
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18:10:08 stpeter heh
18:10:15 stpeter Tobias: yes, does sound interesting
18:10:32 stpeter I need to log off now, will think about it and provide feedback on whatever you propose
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18:14:13 Tobias okay..i'll write something up tomorrow
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18:22:53 ralphm stpeter: oh. it showed online for me
18:22:59 ralphm sorry for not making it
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19:47:26 Dave Cridland FWIW, I think cert pinning is daft.
20:27:02 MattJ Why?
21:06:04 MattJ Dave Cridland, why?
21:10:11 m&m Dave Cridland has left the library. Dave Cridland has been saved.
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