the one that said we have to find technical arguments to decline it :P
Dave Cridland
Yes, Fippo's even more unhappy about how it turned out than he thought.
stpeter
it = ?
Tobias
is "SDP has cooties" technical enough?
m&m
I only glanced at it, but it is a little smelly
stpeter
Tobias: :-)
m&m
SDP has enough cooties, this really multiplies them
m&m
it looks like the pairing of the worst parts of two things
m&mpings one of the MattJ's
MattJhas joined
Tobias
i don't see ralph online
m&m
he's away
Tobias
ahh
m&m
well, tis time
m&mbangs gavel
m&m
0) Roll Call
MattJ
Here
Tobias
present
m&m
presente
m&m
we at least have quorum
m&m
1) <http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html> Accept as Experimental?
m&m
I'm disinclined to accept this if the author doesn't want it
stpeter
the author doesn't want it? I missed that
Tobias
that was the tone of his last message
m&m
From Philipp Hancke:
council: please reject this (with a technical argument, not just because it's ugly)
MattJ
We're supposed to reject it for technical reasons though :)
Dave Cridland
I think you should accept it.
MattJ
I was waiting for someone to say that
Dave Cridland
Think how annoyed he'd be.
m&m
then he can retract it
m&m
or not
stpeter
isn't the Jingle / RTC SIG supposed to be deciding what to do here?
Dave Cridland
Forgot this'd be in the logs, though. :-)
MattJ
I believed so
m&m
that was my understanding
MattJ
I'm not sure what the consensus is yet (author's opinion aside)
Dave Cridland
We've had virtually no list activity in a few weeks; I was hoping that people would have come back with the work they offered to do by now.
m&m
you have to prod
Dave Cridland
Yes, I know. But a combination of summer and IETF has meant I haven't.
stpeter
everyone is rivited by ongoing security scandals and has no energy for trivialities like RTC :P
MattJ
:D
m&m
best with something electrified
Dave Cridland
This submission is going to be my key to reinvigorating things, I hope.
m&m
then "no objections" from me
m&m
I don't have a good technical argument against it at this time
m&m
Tobias? MattJ?
MattJ
I...
stpeter
if we're going to publish Jingle-SDP, then IMHO we also need to publish SoX -- I'm not fond of either, but they're just about equally hideous
MattJ
don't object
Dave Cridland
I think the principle problem with the proposal is that the only thing it really adds is SDP syntax - it gains nothing in terms of interop.
m&m
stpeter: agreed
MattJ
Can we change the text for "experimental" back again? :)
Dave Cridland
SoX clearly does have some merit - in as much as it can be used to tunnel SIP though an XMPP network.
m&m
well, I've no problems publishing both
Tobias
m&m, if it doesn't provide any value why accept it? like dave says...it adds nothing in terms of interop
MattJ
Interop with whom?
stpeter
I didn't say Jingle-SDP has no merit, I just say it's ugly :-)
MattJ
Dave Cridland, will it help or hinder the Jingle SIG to have this accepted?
Dave Cridland
MattJ, Anyone. You can't use jingle-sdp except to talk to other jingle-sdp speakers, of course, but in order to use it you need to parse and understand SDP; you can't just blindly take an SDP (or SIP) blob and throw it across the network.
Dave Cridland
MattJ, I don't think it'll make any difference.
Dave Cridland
MattJ, The only complication would be if people treated it as anything more than a discussion point.
MattJ
So it won't make any difference, and we're not convinced it's a good approach to the problem, there are no existing implementations (right?)...
MattJ
and there is a risk of someone implementing it while experimental
Dave Cridland
MattJ, Right.
m&m
Dave Cridland: as the not-a-chair for the Jingle-SDP, is your opinion to publish or not?
MattJ
Especially since we just changed our text to encourage them to :)
MattJ
In which case I think I'd rather not publish
Dave Cridland
m&m, If we had a true equivalent of a published draft, I'd stick with that. As it is, having it in the protoxep record is sufficient for the SIG's need, and a real XEP may confuse the issue.
m&m
so, on the advice of the SIG, we can reject this proposal at this time
Tobias
+1 on that
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m&m
ok. I suppose Kev and Ralph have a fortnight to respond, but that might be moot
m&m
who wants to send the notice of non-acceptance to the list?
MattJ
I can
m&m
gracias
m&m
2) Next Meeting
stpeter
SBTSBC?
Tobias
+1
m&m
SBTSBC is assumed, unless anyone has apologies to note now
MattJ
None
m&m
3) Any Other Business
Tobias
none here
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MattJ
Uh-oh
MattJ
:)
m&m
going once
m&m
going twice
stpeter
oh
Dave Cridland
I'd note as a general item we need to hunt candidates for council and board.
stpeter
any input on LC items?
m&m
I'm working through −301
stpeter
Dave Cridland: agreed
m&m
I have a lot of nits
Tobias
stpeter, i'll look at the none RTT ones the next days
m&m
Dave Cridland: noted!
stpeter
recruiting for the Board is always a challenge
m&m
maybe if you offered actual cookies
Dave Cridland
Oh, and Summit...
stpeter
oh yes
m&m
status?
Dave Cridland
Apparently there'll be four people there.
Dave Cridland
I'm wondering whether to make it 5.
Dave Cridland
But that may mean finding a bigger table.
stpeter
Inky does XMPP? or you just want to visit Portland again? ;-)
Dave Cridland
Mostly just like Portland.
Dave Cridland
That is, Portland³.
stpeter
but yes some marketing is needed
stpeter
I'll do some more pokage by end of week
m&m
I doubt I'd be able to make it
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m&m
anything else
m&mnotes we're 5 minutes over
stpeter
nothing else here
fippo
thanks for not accepting jingle-sdp ;-)
m&mbangs gavel
stpeter
heh
m&m
fippo: it was close, though
m&m
we almost accepted because of your insistence we not
m&m
stpeter: will you be in the office later today?
fippo
mh... I need to make a note on trying reverse psychology against the current council
stpeter
fippo: :)
m&m
of course, now that you've noted that, we'll note it ourselves
stpeter
m&m: I'm in the office now, but not later :P
m&m
stpeter: hrm
stpeter
reminds me of the old Mad magazine stuff about spy vs. anti-spy vs. anti-anti-spy...
m&m
heh
stpeter
m&m: we can chat IRL :P
m&m
stpeter: but I like using non-obvious channels! Gives the the various TLAs more places to look!
Dave Cridland
m&m, There are four-letter acronyms at play in this space too.
stpeter
OK, I'll text you about the smoke signals I would send except it's so rainy today
m&m
and I'll start a hangout about the drumbeats in response to your text on the smoke signals
stpeterlaughs
stpeter
brb
m&m
then we can tweet it and maybe even like it
Dave Cridland
"I'll post on Facebook and you'll like it." - always sounds like a parent telling off, to me.
MattJ
Oh! Forgot AOB - I'm owing a vote on 301
MattJ
I'll post to the ist
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m&m
all of the votes were pushed off by 1 week
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stpeter
BTW, Ralph sent regrets to me on an IM account I hadn't logged into before the Council meeting
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Tobias
so..what do you guys think about a xep for pinning certs? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 isn't going to be adapted soon by TLS implementations and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-08 is http specific
Kanchil
Tobias: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02:
draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 - Trust Assertions for Certificate Keys
Lance
Tobias: would this be for s2s or c2s?
Tobias
why not both
Tobias
:)
Lance
sure :) i just dont always have access to the needed info for c2s implementations
Lanceglares at python's incomplete stdlib openssl bindings
Tobias
PyTLS (or what's it called) allows access to cert fingerprints
Tobias
not?
Tobias
or i've been looking at the wrong lib some days ago
Lance
oh, ok. i can do fingerprints in python
Lancenow glares at browsers for not exposing cert information to JS
Lance
so, yeah. +1 go for it
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stpeter
heh
stpeter
Tobias: yes, does sound interesting
stpeter
I need to log off now, will think about it and provide feedback on whatever you propose