XMPP Council - 2013-09-11

  1. stpeter

    la la la

  2. m&m

    ho ho ho

  3. stpeter

    T-3 minutes?

  4. Tobias

    meeting today?

  5. m&m


  6. stpeter

    I know Kev sent his regrets

  7. m&m

    there is one agenda item, I think

  8. Tobias

    the protoxep?

  9. m&m


  10. Kanchil

    m&m: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html: XEP-xxxx: Jingle SDP Content

  11. Tobias

    the one that said we have to find technical arguments to decline it :P

  12. Dave Cridland

    Yes, Fippo's even more unhappy about how it turned out than he thought.

  13. stpeter

    it = ?

  14. Tobias

    is "SDP has cooties" technical enough?

  15. m&m

    I only glanced at it, but it is a little smelly

  16. stpeter

    Tobias: :-)

  17. m&m

    SDP has enough cooties, this really multiplies them

  18. m&m

    it looks like the pairing of the worst parts of two things

  19. m&m pings one of the MattJ's

  20. Tobias

    i don't see ralph online

  21. m&m

    he's away

  22. Tobias


  23. m&m

    well, tis time

  24. m&m bangs gavel

  25. m&m

    0) Roll Call

  26. MattJ


  27. Tobias


  28. m&m


  29. m&m

    we at least have quorum

  30. m&m

    1) <http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html> Accept as Experimental?

  31. m&m

    I'm disinclined to accept this if the author doesn't want it

  32. stpeter

    the author doesn't want it? I missed that

  33. Tobias

    that was the tone of his last message

  34. m&m

    From Philipp Hancke: council: please reject this (with a technical argument, not just because it's ugly)

  35. MattJ

    We're supposed to reject it for technical reasons though :)

  36. Dave Cridland

    I think you should accept it.

  37. MattJ

    I was waiting for someone to say that

  38. Dave Cridland

    Think how annoyed he'd be.

  39. m&m

    then he can retract it

  40. m&m

    or not

  41. stpeter

    isn't the Jingle / RTC SIG supposed to be deciding what to do here?

  42. Dave Cridland

    Forgot this'd be in the logs, though. :-)

  43. MattJ

    I believed so

  44. m&m

    that was my understanding

  45. MattJ

    I'm not sure what the consensus is yet (author's opinion aside)

  46. Dave Cridland

    We've had virtually no list activity in a few weeks; I was hoping that people would have come back with the work they offered to do by now.

  47. m&m

    you have to prod

  48. Dave Cridland

    Yes, I know. But a combination of summer and IETF has meant I haven't.

  49. stpeter

    everyone is rivited by ongoing security scandals and has no energy for trivialities like RTC :P

  50. MattJ


  51. m&m

    best with something electrified

  52. Dave Cridland

    This submission is going to be my key to reinvigorating things, I hope.

  53. m&m

    then "no objections" from me

  54. m&m

    I don't have a good technical argument against it at this time

  55. m&m

    Tobias? MattJ?

  56. MattJ


  57. stpeter

    if we're going to publish Jingle-SDP, then IMHO we also need to publish SoX -- I'm not fond of either, but they're just about equally hideous

  58. MattJ

    don't object

  59. Dave Cridland

    I think the principle problem with the proposal is that the only thing it really adds is SDP syntax - it gains nothing in terms of interop.

  60. m&m

    stpeter: agreed

  61. MattJ

    Can we change the text for "experimental" back again? :)

  62. Dave Cridland

    SoX clearly does have some merit - in as much as it can be used to tunnel SIP though an XMPP network.

  63. m&m

    well, I've no problems publishing both

  64. Tobias

    m&m, if it doesn't provide any value why accept it? like dave says...it adds nothing in terms of interop

  65. MattJ

    Interop with whom?

  66. stpeter

    I didn't say Jingle-SDP has no merit, I just say it's ugly :-)

  67. MattJ

    Dave Cridland, will it help or hinder the Jingle SIG to have this accepted?

  68. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, Anyone. You can't use jingle-sdp except to talk to other jingle-sdp speakers, of course, but in order to use it you need to parse and understand SDP; you can't just blindly take an SDP (or SIP) blob and throw it across the network.

  69. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, I don't think it'll make any difference.

  70. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, The only complication would be if people treated it as anything more than a discussion point.

  71. MattJ

    So it won't make any difference, and we're not convinced it's a good approach to the problem, there are no existing implementations (right?)...

  72. MattJ

    and there is a risk of someone implementing it while experimental

  73. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, Right.

  74. m&m

    Dave Cridland: as the not-a-chair for the Jingle-SDP, is your opinion to publish or not?

  75. MattJ

    Especially since we just changed our text to encourage them to :)

  76. MattJ

    In which case I think I'd rather not publish

  77. Dave Cridland

    m&m, If we had a true equivalent of a published draft, I'd stick with that. As it is, having it in the protoxep record is sufficient for the SIG's need, and a real XEP may confuse the issue.

  78. m&m

    so, on the advice of the SIG, we can reject this proposal at this time

  79. Tobias

    +1 on that

  80. m&m

    ok. I suppose Kev and Ralph have a fortnight to respond, but that might be moot

  81. m&m

    who wants to send the notice of non-acceptance to the list?

  82. MattJ

    I can

  83. m&m


  84. m&m

    2) Next Meeting

  85. stpeter


  86. Tobias


  87. m&m

    SBTSBC is assumed, unless anyone has apologies to note now

  88. MattJ


  89. m&m

    3) Any Other Business

  90. Tobias

    none here

  91. MattJ


  92. MattJ


  93. m&m

    going once

  94. m&m

    going twice

  95. stpeter


  96. Dave Cridland

    I'd note as a general item we need to hunt candidates for council and board.

  97. stpeter

    any input on LC items?

  98. m&m

    I'm working through −301

  99. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: agreed

  100. m&m

    I have a lot of nits

  101. Tobias

    stpeter, i'll look at the none RTT ones the next days

  102. m&m

    Dave Cridland: noted!

  103. stpeter

    recruiting for the Board is always a challenge

  104. m&m

    maybe if you offered actual cookies

  105. Dave Cridland

    Oh, and Summit...

  106. stpeter

    oh yes

  107. m&m


  108. Dave Cridland

    Apparently there'll be four people there.

  109. Dave Cridland

    I'm wondering whether to make it 5.

  110. Dave Cridland

    But that may mean finding a bigger table.

  111. stpeter

    Inky does XMPP? or you just want to visit Portland again? ;-)

  112. Dave Cridland

    Mostly just like Portland.

  113. Dave Cridland

    That is, Portland³.

  114. stpeter

    but yes some marketing is needed

  115. stpeter

    I'll do some more pokage by end of week

  116. m&m

    I doubt I'd be able to make it

  117. m&m

    anything else

  118. m&m notes we're 5 minutes over

  119. stpeter

    nothing else here

  120. fippo

    thanks for not accepting jingle-sdp ;-)

  121. m&m bangs gavel

  122. stpeter


  123. m&m

    fippo: it was close, though

  124. m&m

    we almost accepted because of your insistence we not

  125. m&m

    stpeter: will you be in the office later today?

  126. fippo

    mh... I need to make a note on trying reverse psychology against the current council

  127. stpeter

    fippo: :)

  128. m&m

    of course, now that you've noted that, we'll note it ourselves

  129. stpeter

    m&m: I'm in the office now, but not later :P

  130. m&m

    stpeter: hrm

  131. stpeter

    reminds me of the old Mad magazine stuff about spy vs. anti-spy vs. anti-anti-spy...

  132. m&m


  133. stpeter

    m&m: we can chat IRL :P

  134. m&m

    stpeter: but I like using non-obvious channels! Gives the the various TLAs more places to look!

  135. Dave Cridland

    m&m, There are four-letter acronyms at play in this space too.

  136. stpeter

    OK, I'll text you about the smoke signals I would send except it's so rainy today

  137. m&m

    and I'll start a hangout about the drumbeats in response to your text on the smoke signals

  138. stpeter laughs

  139. stpeter


  140. m&m

    then we can tweet it and maybe even like it

  141. Dave Cridland

    "I'll post on Facebook and you'll like it." - always sounds like a parent telling off, to me.

  142. MattJ

    Oh! Forgot AOB - I'm owing a vote on 301

  143. MattJ

    I'll post to the ist

  144. m&m

    all of the votes were pushed off by 1 week

  145. stpeter

    BTW, Ralph sent regrets to me on an IM account I hadn't logged into before the Council meeting

  146. Tobias

    so..what do you guys think about a xep for pinning certs? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 isn't going to be adapted soon by TLS implementations and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-08 is http specific

  147. Kanchil

    Tobias: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02: draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 - Trust Assertions for Certificate Keys

  148. Lance

    Tobias: would this be for s2s or c2s?

  149. Tobias

    why not both

  150. Tobias


  151. Lance

    sure :) i just dont always have access to the needed info for c2s implementations

  152. Lance glares at python's incomplete stdlib openssl bindings

  153. Tobias

    PyTLS (or what's it called) allows access to cert fingerprints

  154. Tobias


  155. Tobias

    or i've been looking at the wrong lib some days ago

  156. Lance

    oh, ok. i can do fingerprints in python

  157. Lance now glares at browsers for not exposing cert information to JS

  158. Lance

    so, yeah. +1 go for it

  159. stpeter


  160. stpeter

    Tobias: yes, does sound interesting

  161. stpeter

    I need to log off now, will think about it and provide feedback on whatever you propose

  162. Tobias

    okay..i'll write something up tomorrow

  163. ralphm

    stpeter: oh. it showed online for me

  164. ralphm

    sorry for not making it

  165. Dave Cridland

    FWIW, I think cert pinning is daft.

  166. MattJ


  167. MattJ

    Dave Cridland, why?

  168. m&m

    Dave Cridland has left the library. Dave Cridland has been saved.