Tobiasthe one that said we have to find technical arguments to decline it :P
Dave CridlandYes, Fippo's even more unhappy about how it turned out than he thought.
stpeterit = ?
Tobiasis "SDP has cooties" technical enough?
m&mI only glanced at it, but it is a little smelly
m&mSDP has enough cooties, this really multiplies them
m&mit looks like the pairing of the worst parts of two things
m&mpings one of the MattJ's
Tobiasi don't see ralph online
m&mwell, tis time
m&m0) Roll Call
m&mwe at least have quorum
m&m1) <http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jingle-sdp.html> Accept as Experimental?
m&mI'm disinclined to accept this if the author doesn't want it
stpeterthe author doesn't want it? I missed that
Tobiasthat was the tone of his last message
m&mFrom Philipp Hancke:
council: please reject this (with a technical argument, not just because it's ugly)
MattJWe're supposed to reject it for technical reasons though :)
Dave CridlandI think you should accept it.
MattJI was waiting for someone to say that
Dave CridlandThink how annoyed he'd be.
m&mthen he can retract it
stpeterisn't the Jingle / RTC SIG supposed to be deciding what to do here?
Dave CridlandForgot this'd be in the logs, though. :-)
MattJI believed so
m&mthat was my understanding
MattJI'm not sure what the consensus is yet (author's opinion aside)
Dave CridlandWe've had virtually no list activity in a few weeks; I was hoping that people would have come back with the work they offered to do by now.
m&myou have to prod
Dave CridlandYes, I know. But a combination of summer and IETF has meant I haven't.
stpetereveryone is rivited by ongoing security scandals and has no energy for trivialities like RTC :P
m&mbest with something electrified
Dave CridlandThis submission is going to be my key to reinvigorating things, I hope.
m&mthen "no objections" from me
m&mI don't have a good technical argument against it at this time
stpeterif we're going to publish Jingle-SDP, then IMHO we also need to publish SoX -- I'm not fond of either, but they're just about equally hideous
Dave CridlandI think the principle problem with the proposal is that the only thing it really adds is SDP syntax - it gains nothing in terms of interop.
MattJCan we change the text for "experimental" back again? :)
Dave CridlandSoX clearly does have some merit - in as much as it can be used to tunnel SIP though an XMPP network.
m&mwell, I've no problems publishing both
Tobiasm&m, if it doesn't provide any value why accept it? like dave says...it adds nothing in terms of interop
MattJInterop with whom?
stpeterI didn't say Jingle-SDP has no merit, I just say it's ugly :-)
MattJDave Cridland, will it help or hinder the Jingle SIG to have this accepted?
Dave CridlandMattJ, Anyone. You can't use jingle-sdp except to talk to other jingle-sdp speakers, of course, but in order to use it you need to parse and understand SDP; you can't just blindly take an SDP (or SIP) blob and throw it across the network.
Dave CridlandMattJ, I don't think it'll make any difference.
Dave CridlandMattJ, The only complication would be if people treated it as anything more than a discussion point.
MattJSo it won't make any difference, and we're not convinced it's a good approach to the problem, there are no existing implementations (right?)...
MattJand there is a risk of someone implementing it while experimental
Dave CridlandMattJ, Right.
m&mDave Cridland: as the not-a-chair for the Jingle-SDP, is your opinion to publish or not?
MattJEspecially since we just changed our text to encourage them to :)
MattJIn which case I think I'd rather not publish
Dave Cridlandm&m, If we had a true equivalent of a published draft, I'd stick with that. As it is, having it in the protoxep record is sufficient for the SIG's need, and a real XEP may confuse the issue.
m&mso, on the advice of the SIG, we can reject this proposal at this time
Tobias+1 on that
m&mok. I suppose Kev and Ralph have a fortnight to respond, but that might be moot
m&mwho wants to send the notice of non-acceptance to the list?
m&m2) Next Meeting
m&mSBTSBC is assumed, unless anyone has apologies to note now
m&m3) Any Other Business
Dave CridlandI'd note as a general item we need to hunt candidates for council and board.
stpeterany input on LC items?
m&mI'm working through −301
stpeterDave Cridland: agreed
m&mI have a lot of nits
Tobiasstpeter, i'll look at the none RTT ones the next days
m&mDave Cridland: noted!
stpeterrecruiting for the Board is always a challenge
m&mmaybe if you offered actual cookies
Dave CridlandOh, and Summit...
Dave CridlandApparently there'll be four people there.
Dave CridlandI'm wondering whether to make it 5.
Dave CridlandBut that may mean finding a bigger table.
stpeterInky does XMPP? or you just want to visit Portland again? ;-)
Dave CridlandMostly just like Portland.
Dave CridlandThat is, Portland³.
stpeterbut yes some marketing is needed
stpeterI'll do some more pokage by end of week
m&mI doubt I'd be able to make it
m&mnotes we're 5 minutes over
stpeternothing else here
fippothanks for not accepting jingle-sdp ;-)
m&mfippo: it was close, though
m&mwe almost accepted because of your insistence we not
m&mstpeter: will you be in the office later today?
fippomh... I need to make a note on trying reverse psychology against the current council
m&mof course, now that you've noted that, we'll note it ourselves
stpeterm&m: I'm in the office now, but not later :P
stpeterreminds me of the old Mad magazine stuff about spy vs. anti-spy vs. anti-anti-spy...
stpeterm&m: we can chat IRL :P
m&mstpeter: but I like using non-obvious channels! Gives the the various TLAs more places to look!
Dave Cridlandm&m, There are four-letter acronyms at play in this space too.
stpeterOK, I'll text you about the smoke signals I would send except it's so rainy today
m&mand I'll start a hangout about the drumbeats in response to your text on the smoke signals
m&mthen we can tweet it and maybe even like it
Dave Cridland"I'll post on Facebook and you'll like it." - always sounds like a parent telling off, to me.
MattJOh! Forgot AOB - I'm owing a vote on 301
MattJI'll post to the ist
m&mall of the votes were pushed off by 1 week
stpeterBTW, Ralph sent regrets to me on an IM account I hadn't logged into before the Council meeting
Tobiasso..what do you guys think about a xep for pinning certs? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 isn't going to be adapted soon by TLS implementations and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-08 is http specific
draft-perrin-tls-tack-02 - Trust Assertions for Certificate Keys
LanceTobias: would this be for s2s or c2s?
Tobiaswhy not both
Lancesure :) i just dont always have access to the needed info for c2s implementations
Lanceglares at python's incomplete stdlib openssl bindings
TobiasPyTLS (or what's it called) allows access to cert fingerprints
Tobiasor i've been looking at the wrong lib some days ago
Lanceoh, ok. i can do fingerprints in python
Lancenow glares at browsers for not exposing cert information to JS
Lanceso, yeah. +1 go for it
stpeterTobias: yes, does sound interesting
stpeterI need to log off now, will think about it and provide feedback on whatever you propose
Tobiasokay..i'll write something up tomorrow
ralphmstpeter: oh. it showed online for me
ralphmsorry for not making it
Dave CridlandFWIW, I think cert pinning is daft.
MattJDave Cridland, why?
m&mDave Cridland has left the library. Dave Cridland has been saved.