XMPP Council - 2013-11-06

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16:09:17 Kev And five minutes to spare. Excellent.
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16:13:05 stpeter hi!
16:13:13 stpeter waves from IETF 88 in Vancouver
16:13:16 Kev Howdy.
16:13:27 Kev 'Tis time, tis time.
16:13:30 Kev 1) Roll call.
16:13:31 stpeter yepper!
16:13:37 Lance here
16:13:38 Kev I am here.
16:13:39 ralphm here
16:13:47 fippo here
16:13:59 Tobias here
16:14:00 MattJ Here
16:14:04 Kev Fabulous.
16:14:15 Kev 2) Welcome
16:14:25 Kev Hi all, welcome to class of 2013. Or 2014. Or something.
16:14:27 m&m has joined
16:14:37 Kev 3) New Chair.
16:14:48 stpeter the lucky 13th council :-)
16:14:48 Kev We should choose a chair. I'm happy to do it again, or does anyone else fancy it?
16:14:58 MattJ stpeter, uh-oh :)
16:15:03 m&m heh
16:15:15 Tobias Kev, what does it involve, other than running the meeting and posting minutes?
16:15:22 stpeter triskaidekaphobics beware!
16:15:33 m&m Tobias: running the meeting and posting minutes
16:15:35 Kev That, keeping track of what needs to go on the agenda, pretty much.
16:15:38 MattJ Kev, you were getting rather busy towards the end of the term - sure you can manage it? If yes, I'm happy with you as chair
16:15:45 Kev Trying to keep to time, etc.
16:16:08 Kev MattJ: Yeah. I need to get less busy than I was for my sanity as much as anything else. But I think things are better now.
16:16:21 Tobias ah..ok
16:16:32 Kev And will be better soon once I get a Swift hire :D
16:16:36 Lance I'm happy with Kev as chair if he's up to it
16:16:50 fippo '+1 for ke as chair
16:16:54 stpeter Kev: indeed
16:17:06 Tobias i'm happy with Kev, if he has the time for it
16:17:11 Kev Fab, ta.
16:17:30 Kev 4) 156. Peter wanted to talk about this.
16:17:43 stpeter and Kevin Smith survives the no-confidence vote! ;-)
16:18:05 stpeter oh yes
16:18:07 stpeter 156
16:18:08 stpeter so
16:18:16 Tobias that was the alternative connection one, right?
16:18:17 stpeter the XMPP Over Websocket references 156
16:18:19 stpeter yes
16:18:30 Kev XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html
16:18:32 stpeter Lance and I have provisionally updated it to also have a web method
16:18:32 Kanchil Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:18:47 stpeter instead of the DNS TXT method (ick)
16:18:59 stpeter http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html
16:19:00 Kanchil stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:05 Lance Primarily because in a browser, we can't do DNS lookups
16:19:12 stpeter http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http
16:19:13 Kanchil stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:14 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:15 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:16 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:17 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:17 stpeter heh
16:19:17 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:18 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:19 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:20 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:21 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:22 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:22 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:23 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:24 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:25 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:26 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:27 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:27 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:28 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:29 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:30 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:31 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:32 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:32 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:33 stpeter kick the bot!
16:19:33 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:34 Kev I don't have rights to kick.
16:19:34 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:35 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:36 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:36 Kev BRB.
16:19:36 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:37 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:38 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:39 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:40 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:41 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:41 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:42 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:43 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:44 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:45 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:46 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:46 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:47 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:48 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:49 Tobias facepalms
16:19:49 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:50 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:51 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:51 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:52 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:53 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:54 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:55 Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
16:19:56 Kanchil has left
16:20:02 Kev Destroyed the process.
16:20:03 stpeter yay
16:20:13 m&m whew
16:20:17 stpeter ok
16:20:17 ralphm (as a side remark, it would be pretty helpful if people would include titles along with XEP numeric references in e-mail (subjects))
16:20:19 stpeter as I was saying
16:20:22 m&m our long nightmare is over
16:20:34 stpeter so
16:20:35 m&m ralphm: +1
16:20:35 ralphm revenge of the colon
16:20:35 fippo ralphm: or the shortname at least
16:20:47 Kev So, I'm not able to demote, which seems like it might be a Prosody bug and we should upgrade. And I should fix Kanchil.
16:20:59 stpeter Ben Campbell (XMPP WG chair) mentioned that the 156 reference only talks about DNS TXT now
16:21:01 stpeter which we'll fix
16:21:08 ralphm right
16:21:15 stpeter the question is how to handle the WebSocket-related registrations
16:21:49 stpeter I'm inclined to leave 156 as it will be, but register the WebSocket entries from the RFC instead of putting them directly into 156
16:21:50 bear has joined
16:22:15 stpeter because all 156 1.1 does is say "here's a format for the URIs"
16:22:21 Kev So leave 156 with the 1.1 .well-known stuff.
16:22:42 stpeter in fact, I think the XMPP Over WebSocket RFC can register its desired .well-known URI directly with IANA, now that I think about it
16:22:42 stpeter yes
16:22:52 Kev stpeter: And by 'registrations' you mean the protocol registrations, not user registration.
16:23:07 ralphm stpeter: so the XMPP Registrar doesn't need to be involved
16:23:10 stpeter I mean urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket
16:23:28 stpeter sorry, I mis-spoke
16:23:31 Kev Right. And that just goes into the links in 156, right?
16:23:39 stpeter yes
16:23:47 stpeter as 156 1.1 says: Because the link relations specified here are extension relation types rather than registered relation types (see Section 4 of RFC 5988), this document requires no interaction with the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [9].
16:23:47 Kev So I think this is orthogonal to 156.
16:24:31 Kev Ah, well, that's slightly inconvenient, but not a problem, I think. Websockets-xmpp can just give the right URI.
16:24:43 stpeter so I think the X.O.W. RFC can register urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket with the XMPP Registrar, which is novel at least
16:25:04 ralphm well, we can just add a back reference in the registry
16:25:10 m&m given some of the discussion in past XMPP WG sessions (notably the lack of SRV in a number of registrars), would it be worth adding the equivalents for the existing SRV-based one?
16:25:11 ralphm that seems fine to me
16:25:19 Kev stpeter: Or we just allow free use of URIs in 156.
16:25:20 ralphm yay for distributed standardization
16:25:26 stpeter or of course the IETF could define its own URIs
16:25:31 stpeter Kev: "free use"?
16:25:52 Kev Not say these are special extension relation types, and allow more than urn:xmpp:alt-connections:httppoll urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket urn:xmpp:alt-connections:xbosh
16:25:58 stpeter ah
16:26:02 stpeter sure
16:26:14 Kev But I'm fine with XOW registering too, I think it's a non-issue.
16:26:20 stpeter agreed
16:26:23 stpeter moving on, then?
16:26:25 Lance which is already the case. 156 is using the host-meta file, which would potentially include other services
16:26:25 Kev And we don't have so many of these that we seem to have scalability problems.
16:26:32 stpeter Kev: right
16:26:36 ralphm I'm sure our Registrar doesn't mind adding one or two things later
16:26:46 stpeter Lance and I can communicate this to the XMPP WG on Friday
16:26:50 Kev Fab, ta.
16:26:58 Kev Moving along, then.
16:27:17 Kev 5) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ Can people send their new bios along to someone with write access to that page, please?
16:27:25 Kev I have a bad feeling that I have write access, and so that could be me.
16:27:53 Kev I'm looking for an ack :)
16:27:57 Lance will do
16:28:01 fippo ack.
16:28:13 Kev Good enough.
16:28:19 stpeter if your don't write your own, I write 'em for you
16:28:23 stpeter beware
16:28:24 ralphm heh
16:28:33 Kev 6) 300 (hashes) Fippo?
16:28:37 ralphm I just noticed that I actually served 9 terms.
16:28:53 m&m ralphm: longest running!
16:29:00 fippo right... i would like to get 0300 to draft
16:29:07 m&m fippo: +1
16:29:12 Kev As-is, or do we need changes?
16:29:19 fippo it seems well written and it would solve a problem i in 0320
16:29:33 stpeter I haven't looked at it in a while
16:29:51 fippo as-is. there has been little (or rather no) feedback on standards@
16:29:54 Kev OK. Shall we shove LC onto the agenda for next meeting, then?
16:30:08 fippo but matt miller has something in the works which will use it, too
16:30:09 m&m I agree with fippo
16:30:09 Kev stpeter: You happy with reinstating it without changes, or do we need to make a dummy change to move back to Experimental?
16:30:09 stpeter as I recall, it didn't solve the problem for all XMPP extensions, but it would be useful for new ones
16:30:30 Lance I seem to recall some issue with 300, I'll double check and post if that's true
16:30:38 Kev Lance: OK, ta.
16:30:40 stpeter thanks
16:30:46 stpeter I shall review it again as well
16:30:55 Kev Right.I think that was it for this meeting.
16:30:57 Kev 7) Date of next.
16:31:01 stpeter during the Pervasive Surveillance discussion this morning at the IETF meeting
16:31:02 m&m at one point I wanted some way of having a convention for within data forms, but that's not very important to me anymore
16:31:06 stpeter which should be quite entertaining :-)
16:31:06 Kev Next week is one of my 'not good for me' weeks.
16:31:19 stpeter live streaming will be available :-)
16:31:39 stpeter I'll be on a plane next week
16:31:48 Kev Would anyone like a meeting without me, or skip a week?
16:32:13 Kev I'm proposing 16:10Z 20th November.
16:32:16 stpeter WFM
16:32:31 fippo WFM -- no urgent issues
16:32:34 Lance wfm
16:32:42 Kev MattJ/Tobias?
16:32:55 Tobias wfm
16:33:05 Kev Dangerously close to time here :)
16:33:13 Kev OK, let's assume MattJ is OK too.
16:33:17 Kev 8) AOB?
16:33:21 stpeter AOB ... Lance was good enough to gather all the BOSH changes into a single patch, so I will apply that for review by the Council (124 + 206)
16:33:44 Kev I saw that note, I just didn't think it needed discussion until the patch was out :)
16:33:51 stpeter yep
16:33:59 Kev Anything else?
16:34:17 stpeter nothing here, I think
16:34:22 Kev Good enough!
16:34:28 Kev A minute over, don't want to make a habit of this :)
16:34:30 Kev Thanks all.
16:34:31 ralphm :-D
16:34:33 Kev bangs the gavel.
16:34:33 m&m hehe
16:34:37 Tobias thank you
16:34:48 stpeter good first meeting
16:35:04 ralphm I blame it on Kanchil
16:35:07 m&m ralph and me are Waldorf and Statler
16:35:15 fippo ralphm: it looked like a silo...
16:35:20 MattJ Sorry folks, power (and my router) went off
16:35:45 ralphm m&m: They aren’t half bad.
16:35:59 m&m they aren't half good either!
16:36:00 Kev Everyone loves those guys.
16:36:01 m&m HAR HAR HAR HAR
16:37:48 stpeter looks at XEP-0300
16:38:28 fippo stpeter: arguably base64 is better than something like 02:1A:CC:54:27:AB:EB:9C:53:3F:3E:4B:65:2E:7D:46:3F:54:42:CD:54:F1:7A:03:A2:7D:F9:B0:7F:46:19:B2
16:38:56 Lance ah, found the issue, and looks like it was resolved. it was use of urn:xmpp:hash-function-textual-names vs urn:xmpp:hash-function-text-names
16:39:08 Tobias but what form of base64 ^^
16:39:20 Lance previous version was using both, but latest uses the '-text-' version only
16:39:29 fippo i think it needs a sentence which describes that this is the base64 of the raw output something (i need to look it up) of the hash
16:39:46 MattJ XEP-0115 has some text for that
16:40:33 fippo right, in 5.1 bullet 9. perfect
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16:42:29 stpeter I wonder if "These recommendations ought to be reviewed yearly by the XMPP Council" is a bit optimistic
16:43:14 ralphm looks nice and vague to me :-D
16:43:49 stpeter it is possible that URNs like "urn:iana:hash-function-text-names:md5" (not urn:xmpp) might be minted at some point
16:43:56 Kev I don't know. Council seem able to turn up to their meetings, which is beating 60% of the new Board :)
16:43:56 stpeter I was working with IANA on that for a while
16:44:02 stpeter heh
16:44:09 stpeter oh is there a Board meeting now? yikes
16:44:20 ralphm stpeter: well, not yet, I suppose :-(
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16:50:07 stpeter hmm
17:04:34 m&m has left
17:07:34 stpeter BTW the IETF plenary is live streamed at http://www.ietf.org/live/ if you're interested (the fun technical content hasn't started yet)
17:09:02 bear when does it start?
17:12:57 stpeter the plenary has started, but preliminaries are happening right now
17:13:06 stpeter I can tell you when Bruce's talk starts
17:16:16 bear I have the youtube channel up but it says "Please Stand By"
17:16:22 bear the text stream is going strong tho
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17:17:05 stpeter http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u is the audio
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17:19:09 bear opens m3u
17:23:31 Tobias is the video steam working for any one?
17:24:01 bear yes but i had to refresh many times
17:24:03 stpeter fippo says "http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work"
17:24:54 Tobias that works
17:25:58 fippo tobias: your'e living in a developing country too, eh?
17:26:09 Tobias fippo, apparently
17:26:53 Tobias for me it just showed "This video is not available.", "Sorry about that" also known as ..."We're sooooo sorryyyy"
17:27:27 Tobias fippo, did they geolock the youtube stream? ^^
17:27:45 stpeter the audio stream might be good enough
17:28:09 Tobias stpeter, the meetecho link worked :)
17:30:40 stpeter great
17:30:49 stpeter the meetecho guys are cool
17:30:59 stpeter plus they like xmpp ;-)
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17:51:08 ralphm Is GEMA blocking even the IETF now?
18:10:57 bear laughs at how quickly the "so sometimes it is possible to have consensus" comment was responded to
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