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-
Kev
And five minutes to spare. Excellent.
- stpeter has joined
-
stpeter
hi!
- stpeter waves from IETF 88 in Vancouver
-
Kev
Howdy.
-
Kev
'Tis time, tis time.
-
Kev
1) Roll call.
-
stpeter
yepper!
-
Lance
here
-
Kev
I am here.
-
ralphm
here
-
fippo
here
-
Tobias
here
-
MattJ
Here
-
Kev
Fabulous.
-
Kev
2) Welcome
-
Kev
Hi all, welcome to class of 2013. Or 2014. Or something.
- m&m has joined
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Kev
3) New Chair.
-
stpeter
the lucky 13th council :-)
-
Kev
We should choose a chair. I'm happy to do it again, or does anyone else fancy it?
-
MattJ
stpeter, uh-oh :)
-
m&m
heh
-
Tobias
Kev, what does it involve, other than running the meeting and posting minutes?
-
stpeter
triskaidekaphobics beware!
-
m&m
Tobias: running the meeting and posting minutes
-
Kev
That, keeping track of what needs to go on the agenda, pretty much.
-
MattJ
Kev, you were getting rather busy towards the end of the term - sure you can manage it? If yes, I'm happy with you as chair
-
Kev
Trying to keep to time, etc.
-
Kev
MattJ: Yeah. I need to get less busy than I was for my sanity as much as anything else. But I think things are better now.
-
Tobias
ah..ok
-
Kev
And will be better soon once I get a Swift hire :D
-
Lance
I'm happy with Kev as chair if he's up to it
-
fippo
'+1 for ke as chair
-
stpeter
Kev: indeed
-
Tobias
i'm happy with Kev, if he has the time for it
-
Kev
Fab, ta.
-
Kev
4) 156. Peter wanted to talk about this.
-
stpeter
and Kevin Smith survives the no-confidence vote! ;-)
-
stpeter
oh yes
-
stpeter
156
-
stpeter
so
-
Tobias
that was the alternative connection one, right?
-
stpeter
the XMPP Over Websocket references 156
-
stpeter
yes
-
Kev
XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html
-
stpeter
Lance and I have provisionally updated it to also have a web method
-
Kanchil
Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
stpeter
instead of the DNS TXT method (ick)
-
stpeter
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html
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Kanchil
stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Lance
Primarily because in a browser, we can't do DNS lookups
-
stpeter
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http
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Kanchil
stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
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Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
stpeter
kick the bot!
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kev
I don't have rights to kick.
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kev
BRB.
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
- Tobias facepalms
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
-
Kanchil
Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
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Kev
Destroyed the process.
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stpeter
yay
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m&m
whew
-
stpeter
ok
-
ralphm
(as a side remark, it would be pretty helpful if people would include titles along with XEP numeric references in e-mail (subjects))
-
stpeter
as I was saying
-
m&m
our long nightmare is over
-
stpeter
so
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m&m
ralphm: +1
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ralphm
revenge of the colon
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fippo
ralphm: or the shortname at least
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Kev
So, I'm not able to demote, which seems like it might be a Prosody bug and we should upgrade. And I should fix Kanchil.
-
stpeter
Ben Campbell (XMPP WG chair) mentioned that the 156 reference only talks about DNS TXT now
-
stpeter
which we'll fix
-
ralphm
right
-
stpeter
the question is how to handle the WebSocket-related registrations
-
stpeter
I'm inclined to leave 156 as it will be, but register the WebSocket entries from the RFC instead of putting them directly into 156
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stpeter
because all 156 1.1 does is say "here's a format for the URIs"
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Kev
So leave 156 with the 1.1 .well-known stuff.
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stpeter
in fact, I think the XMPP Over WebSocket RFC can register its desired .well-known URI directly with IANA, now that I think about it
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stpeter
yes
-
Kev
stpeter: And by 'registrations' you mean the protocol registrations, not user registration.
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ralphm
stpeter: so the XMPP Registrar doesn't need to be involved
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stpeter
I mean urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket
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stpeter
sorry, I mis-spoke
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Kev
Right. And that just goes into the links in 156, right?
-
stpeter
yes
-
stpeter
as 156 1.1 says: Because the link relations specified here are extension relation types rather than registered relation types (see Section 4 of RFC 5988), this document requires no interaction with the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [9].
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Kev
So I think this is orthogonal to 156.
-
Kev
Ah, well, that's slightly inconvenient, but not a problem, I think. Websockets-xmpp can just give the right URI.
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stpeter
so I think the X.O.W. RFC can register urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket with the XMPP Registrar, which is novel at least
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ralphm
well, we can just add a back reference in the registry
-
m&m
given some of the discussion in past XMPP WG sessions (notably the lack of SRV in a number of registrars), would it be worth adding the equivalents for the existing SRV-based one?
-
ralphm
that seems fine to me
-
Kev
stpeter: Or we just allow free use of URIs in 156.
-
ralphm
yay for distributed standardization
-
stpeter
or of course the IETF could define its own URIs
-
stpeter
Kev: "free use"?
-
Kev
Not say these are special extension relation types, and allow more than urn:xmpp:alt-connections:httppoll urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket urn:xmpp:alt-connections:xbosh
-
stpeter
ah
-
stpeter
sure
-
Kev
But I'm fine with XOW registering too, I think it's a non-issue.
-
stpeter
agreed
-
stpeter
moving on, then?
-
Lance
which is already the case. 156 is using the host-meta file, which would potentially include other services
-
Kev
And we don't have so many of these that we seem to have scalability problems.
-
stpeter
Kev: right
-
ralphm
I'm sure our Registrar doesn't mind adding one or two things later
-
stpeter
Lance and I can communicate this to the XMPP WG on Friday
-
Kev
Fab, ta.
-
Kev
Moving along, then.
-
Kev
5) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ Can people send their new bios along to someone with write access to that page, please?
-
Kev
I have a bad feeling that I have write access, and so that could be me.
-
Kev
I'm looking for an ack :)
-
Lance
will do
-
fippo
ack.
-
Kev
Good enough.
-
stpeter
if your don't write your own, I write 'em for you
-
stpeter
beware
-
ralphm
heh
-
Kev
6) 300 (hashes) Fippo?
-
ralphm
I just noticed that I actually served 9 terms.
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m&m
ralphm: longest running!
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fippo
right... i would like to get 0300 to draft
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m&m
fippo: +1
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Kev
As-is, or do we need changes?
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fippo
it seems well written and it would solve a problem i in 0320
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stpeter
I haven't looked at it in a while
-
fippo
as-is. there has been little (or rather no) feedback on standards@
-
Kev
OK. Shall we shove LC onto the agenda for next meeting, then?
-
fippo
but matt miller has something in the works which will use it, too
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m&m
I agree with fippo
-
Kev
stpeter: You happy with reinstating it without changes, or do we need to make a dummy change to move back to Experimental?
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stpeter
as I recall, it didn't solve the problem for all XMPP extensions, but it would be useful for new ones
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Lance
I seem to recall some issue with 300, I'll double check and post if that's true
-
Kev
Lance: OK, ta.
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stpeter
thanks
-
stpeter
I shall review it again as well
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Kev
Right.I think that was it for this meeting.
-
Kev
7) Date of next.
-
stpeter
during the Pervasive Surveillance discussion this morning at the IETF meeting
-
m&m
at one point I wanted some way of having a convention for within data forms, but that's not very important to me anymore
-
stpeter
which should be quite entertaining :-)
-
Kev
Next week is one of my 'not good for me' weeks.
-
stpeter
live streaming will be available :-)
-
stpeter
I'll be on a plane next week
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Kev
Would anyone like a meeting without me, or skip a week?
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Kev
I'm proposing 16:10Z 20th November.
-
stpeter
WFM
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fippo
WFM -- no urgent issues
-
Lance
wfm
-
Kev
MattJ/Tobias?
-
Tobias
wfm
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Kev
Dangerously close to time here :)
-
Kev
OK, let's assume MattJ is OK too.
-
Kev
8) AOB?
-
stpeter
AOB ... Lance was good enough to gather all the BOSH changes into a single patch, so I will apply that for review by the Council (124 + 206)
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Kev
I saw that note, I just didn't think it needed discussion until the patch was out :)
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stpeter
yep
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Kev
Anything else?
-
stpeter
nothing here, I think
-
Kev
Good enough!
-
Kev
A minute over, don't want to make a habit of this :)
-
Kev
Thanks all.
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ralphm
:-D
- Kev bangs the gavel.
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m&m
hehe
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Tobias
thank you
-
stpeter
good first meeting
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ralphm
I blame it on Kanchil
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m&m
ralph and me are Waldorf and Statler
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fippo
ralphm: it looked like a silo...
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MattJ
Sorry folks, power (and my router) went off
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ralphm
m&m: They aren’t half bad.
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m&m
they aren't half good either!
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Kev
Everyone loves those guys.
-
m&m
HAR HAR HAR HAR
- stpeter looks at XEP-0300
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fippo
stpeter: arguably base64 is better than something like 02:1A:CC:54:27:AB:EB:9C:53:3F:3E:4B:65:2E:7D:46:3F:54:42:CD:54:F1:7A:03:A2:7D:F9:B0:7F:46:19:B2
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Lance
ah, found the issue, and looks like it was resolved. it was use of urn:xmpp:hash-function-textual-names vs urn:xmpp:hash-function-text-names
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Tobias
but what form of base64 ^^
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Lance
previous version was using both, but latest uses the '-text-' version only
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fippo
i think it needs a sentence which describes that this is the base64 of the raw output something (i need to look it up) of the hash
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MattJ
XEP-0115 has some text for that
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fippo
right, in 5.1 bullet 9. perfect
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stpeter
I wonder if "These recommendations ought to be reviewed yearly by the XMPP Council" is a bit optimistic
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ralphm
looks nice and vague to me :-D
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stpeter
it is possible that URNs like "urn:iana:hash-function-text-names:md5" (not urn:xmpp) might be minted at some point
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Kev
I don't know. Council seem able to turn up to their meetings, which is beating 60% of the new Board :)
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stpeter
I was working with IANA on that for a while
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stpeter
heh
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stpeter
oh is there a Board meeting now? yikes
-
ralphm
stpeter: well, not yet, I suppose :-(
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stpeter
hmm
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stpeter
BTW the IETF plenary is live streamed at http://www.ietf.org/live/ if you're interested (the fun technical content hasn't started yet)
-
bear
when does it start?
-
stpeter
the plenary has started, but preliminaries are happening right now
-
stpeter
I can tell you when Bruce's talk starts
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bear
I have the youtube channel up but it says "Please Stand By"
-
bear
the text stream is going strong tho
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stpeter
http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u is the audio
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Tobias
is the video steam working for any one?
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bear
yes but i had to refresh many times
-
stpeter
fippo says "http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work"
-
Tobias
that works
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fippo
tobias: your'e living in a developing country too, eh?
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Tobias
fippo, apparently
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Tobias
for me it just showed "This video is not available.", "Sorry about that" also known as ..."We're sooooo sorryyyy"
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Tobias
fippo, did they geolock the youtube stream? ^^
-
stpeter
the audio stream might be good enough
-
Tobias
stpeter, the meetecho link worked :)
-
stpeter
great
-
stpeter
the meetecho guys are cool
-
stpeter
plus they like xmpp ;-)
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ralphm
Is GEMA blocking even the IETF now?
- bear laughs at how quickly the "so sometimes it is possible to have consensus" comment was responded to
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