XMPP Council - 2013-11-06


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  41. Kev

    And five minutes to spare. Excellent.

  42. stpeter has joined

  43. stpeter

    hi!

  44. stpeter waves from IETF 88 in Vancouver

  45. Kev

    Howdy.

  46. Kev

    'Tis time, tis time.

  47. Kev

    1) Roll call.

  48. stpeter

    yepper!

  49. Lance

    here

  50. Kev

    I am here.

  51. ralphm

    here

  52. fippo

    here

  53. Tobias

    here

  54. MattJ

    Here

  55. Kev

    Fabulous.

  56. Kev

    2) Welcome

  57. Kev

    Hi all, welcome to class of 2013. Or 2014. Or something.

  58. m&m has joined

  59. Kev

    3) New Chair.

  60. stpeter

    the lucky 13th council :-)

  61. Kev

    We should choose a chair. I'm happy to do it again, or does anyone else fancy it?

  62. MattJ

    stpeter, uh-oh :)

  63. m&m

    heh

  64. Tobias

    Kev, what does it involve, other than running the meeting and posting minutes?

  65. stpeter

    triskaidekaphobics beware!

  66. m&m

    Tobias: running the meeting and posting minutes

  67. Kev

    That, keeping track of what needs to go on the agenda, pretty much.

  68. MattJ

    Kev, you were getting rather busy towards the end of the term - sure you can manage it? If yes, I'm happy with you as chair

  69. Kev

    Trying to keep to time, etc.

  70. Kev

    MattJ: Yeah. I need to get less busy than I was for my sanity as much as anything else. But I think things are better now.

  71. Tobias

    ah..ok

  72. Kev

    And will be better soon once I get a Swift hire :D

  73. Lance

    I'm happy with Kev as chair if he's up to it

  74. fippo

    '+1 for ke as chair

  75. stpeter

    Kev: indeed

  76. Tobias

    i'm happy with Kev, if he has the time for it

  77. Kev

    Fab, ta.

  78. Kev

    4) 156. Peter wanted to talk about this.

  79. stpeter

    and Kevin Smith survives the no-confidence vote! ;-)

  80. stpeter

    oh yes

  81. stpeter

    156

  82. stpeter

    so

  83. Tobias

    that was the alternative connection one, right?

  84. stpeter

    the XMPP Over Websocket references 156

  85. stpeter

    yes

  86. Kev

    XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html

  87. stpeter

    Lance and I have provisionally updated it to also have a web method

  88. Kanchil

    Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  89. stpeter

    instead of the DNS TXT method (ick)

  90. stpeter

    http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html

  91. Kanchil

    stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  92. Lance

    Primarily because in a browser, we can't do DNS lookups

  93. stpeter

    http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http

  94. Kanchil

    stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  95. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  96. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  97. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  98. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  99. stpeter

    heh

  100. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  101. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  102. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  103. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  104. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  105. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  106. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  107. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  108. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  109. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  110. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  111. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  112. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  113. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  114. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  115. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  116. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  117. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  118. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  119. stpeter

    kick the bot!

  120. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  121. Kev

    I don't have rights to kick.

  122. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  123. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  124. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  125. Kev

    BRB.

  126. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  127. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  128. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  129. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  130. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  131. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  132. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  133. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  134. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  135. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  136. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  137. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  138. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  139. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  140. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  141. Tobias facepalms

  142. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  143. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  144. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  145. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  146. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  147. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  148. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  149. Kanchil

    Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods

  150. Kanchil has left

  151. Kev

    Destroyed the process.

  152. stpeter

    yay

  153. m&m

    whew

  154. stpeter

    ok

  155. ralphm

    (as a side remark, it would be pretty helpful if people would include titles along with XEP numeric references in e-mail (subjects))

  156. stpeter

    as I was saying

  157. m&m

    our long nightmare is over

  158. stpeter

    so

  159. m&m

    ralphm: +1

  160. ralphm

    revenge of the colon

  161. fippo

    ralphm: or the shortname at least

  162. Kev

    So, I'm not able to demote, which seems like it might be a Prosody bug and we should upgrade. And I should fix Kanchil.

  163. stpeter

    Ben Campbell (XMPP WG chair) mentioned that the 156 reference only talks about DNS TXT now

  164. stpeter

    which we'll fix

  165. ralphm

    right

  166. stpeter

    the question is how to handle the WebSocket-related registrations

  167. stpeter

    I'm inclined to leave 156 as it will be, but register the WebSocket entries from the RFC instead of putting them directly into 156

  168. bear has joined

  169. stpeter

    because all 156 1.1 does is say "here's a format for the URIs"

  170. Kev

    So leave 156 with the 1.1 .well-known stuff.

  171. stpeter

    in fact, I think the XMPP Over WebSocket RFC can register its desired .well-known URI directly with IANA, now that I think about it

  172. stpeter

    yes

  173. Kev

    stpeter: And by 'registrations' you mean the protocol registrations, not user registration.

  174. ralphm

    stpeter: so the XMPP Registrar doesn't need to be involved

  175. stpeter

    I mean urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket

  176. stpeter

    sorry, I mis-spoke

  177. Kev

    Right. And that just goes into the links in 156, right?

  178. stpeter

    yes

  179. stpeter

    as 156 1.1 says: Because the link relations specified here are extension relation types rather than registered relation types (see Section 4 of RFC 5988), this document requires no interaction with the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [9].

  180. Kev

    So I think this is orthogonal to 156.

  181. Kev

    Ah, well, that's slightly inconvenient, but not a problem, I think. Websockets-xmpp can just give the right URI.

  182. stpeter

    so I think the X.O.W. RFC can register urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket with the XMPP Registrar, which is novel at least

  183. ralphm

    well, we can just add a back reference in the registry

  184. m&m

    given some of the discussion in past XMPP WG sessions (notably the lack of SRV in a number of registrars), would it be worth adding the equivalents for the existing SRV-based one?

  185. ralphm

    that seems fine to me

  186. Kev

    stpeter: Or we just allow free use of URIs in 156.

  187. ralphm

    yay for distributed standardization

  188. stpeter

    or of course the IETF could define its own URIs

  189. stpeter

    Kev: "free use"?

  190. Kev

    Not say these are special extension relation types, and allow more than urn:xmpp:alt-connections:httppoll urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket urn:xmpp:alt-connections:xbosh

  191. stpeter

    ah

  192. stpeter

    sure

  193. Kev

    But I'm fine with XOW registering too, I think it's a non-issue.

  194. stpeter

    agreed

  195. stpeter

    moving on, then?

  196. Lance

    which is already the case. 156 is using the host-meta file, which would potentially include other services

  197. Kev

    And we don't have so many of these that we seem to have scalability problems.

  198. stpeter

    Kev: right

  199. ralphm

    I'm sure our Registrar doesn't mind adding one or two things later

  200. stpeter

    Lance and I can communicate this to the XMPP WG on Friday

  201. Kev

    Fab, ta.

  202. Kev

    Moving along, then.

  203. Kev

    5) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ Can people send their new bios along to someone with write access to that page, please?

  204. Kev

    I have a bad feeling that I have write access, and so that could be me.

  205. Kev

    I'm looking for an ack :)

  206. Lance

    will do

  207. fippo

    ack.

  208. Kev

    Good enough.

  209. stpeter

    if your don't write your own, I write 'em for you

  210. stpeter

    beware

  211. ralphm

    heh

  212. Kev

    6) 300 (hashes) Fippo?

  213. ralphm

    I just noticed that I actually served 9 terms.

  214. m&m

    ralphm: longest running!

  215. fippo

    right... i would like to get 0300 to draft

  216. m&m

    fippo: +1

  217. Kev

    As-is, or do we need changes?

  218. fippo

    it seems well written and it would solve a problem i in 0320

  219. stpeter

    I haven't looked at it in a while

  220. fippo

    as-is. there has been little (or rather no) feedback on standards@

  221. Kev

    OK. Shall we shove LC onto the agenda for next meeting, then?

  222. fippo

    but matt miller has something in the works which will use it, too

  223. m&m

    I agree with fippo

  224. Kev

    stpeter: You happy with reinstating it without changes, or do we need to make a dummy change to move back to Experimental?

  225. stpeter

    as I recall, it didn't solve the problem for all XMPP extensions, but it would be useful for new ones

  226. Lance

    I seem to recall some issue with 300, I'll double check and post if that's true

  227. Kev

    Lance: OK, ta.

  228. stpeter

    thanks

  229. stpeter

    I shall review it again as well

  230. Kev

    Right.I think that was it for this meeting.

  231. Kev

    7) Date of next.

  232. stpeter

    during the Pervasive Surveillance discussion this morning at the IETF meeting

  233. m&m

    at one point I wanted some way of having a convention for within data forms, but that's not very important to me anymore

  234. stpeter

    which should be quite entertaining :-)

  235. Kev

    Next week is one of my 'not good for me' weeks.

  236. stpeter

    live streaming will be available :-)

  237. stpeter

    I'll be on a plane next week

  238. Kev

    Would anyone like a meeting without me, or skip a week?

  239. Kev

    I'm proposing 16:10Z 20th November.

  240. stpeter

    WFM

  241. fippo

    WFM -- no urgent issues

  242. Lance

    wfm

  243. Kev

    MattJ/Tobias?

  244. Tobias

    wfm

  245. Kev

    Dangerously close to time here :)

  246. Kev

    OK, let's assume MattJ is OK too.

  247. Kev

    8) AOB?

  248. stpeter

    AOB ... Lance was good enough to gather all the BOSH changes into a single patch, so I will apply that for review by the Council (124 + 206)

  249. Kev

    I saw that note, I just didn't think it needed discussion until the patch was out :)

  250. stpeter

    yep

  251. Kev

    Anything else?

  252. stpeter

    nothing here, I think

  253. Kev

    Good enough!

  254. Kev

    A minute over, don't want to make a habit of this :)

  255. Kev

    Thanks all.

  256. ralphm

    :-D

  257. Kev bangs the gavel.

  258. m&m

    hehe

  259. Tobias

    thank you

  260. stpeter

    good first meeting

  261. ralphm

    I blame it on Kanchil

  262. m&m

    ralph and me are Waldorf and Statler

  263. fippo

    ralphm: it looked like a silo...

  264. MattJ

    Sorry folks, power (and my router) went off

  265. ralphm

    m&m: They aren’t half bad.

  266. m&m

    they aren't half good either!

  267. Kev

    Everyone loves those guys.

  268. m&m

    HAR HAR HAR HAR

  269. stpeter looks at XEP-0300

  270. fippo

    stpeter: arguably base64 is better than something like 02:1A:CC:54:27:AB:EB:9C:53:3F:3E:4B:65:2E:7D:46:3F:54:42:CD:54:F1:7A:03:A2:7D:F9:B0:7F:46:19:B2

  271. Lance

    ah, found the issue, and looks like it was resolved. it was use of urn:xmpp:hash-function-textual-names vs urn:xmpp:hash-function-text-names

  272. Tobias

    but what form of base64 ^^

  273. Lance

    previous version was using both, but latest uses the '-text-' version only

  274. fippo

    i think it needs a sentence which describes that this is the base64 of the raw output something (i need to look it up) of the hash

  275. MattJ

    XEP-0115 has some text for that

  276. fippo

    right, in 5.1 bullet 9. perfect

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  279. stpeter

    I wonder if "These recommendations ought to be reviewed yearly by the XMPP Council" is a bit optimistic

  280. ralphm

    looks nice and vague to me :-D

  281. stpeter

    it is possible that URNs like "urn:iana:hash-function-text-names:md5" (not urn:xmpp) might be minted at some point

  282. Kev

    I don't know. Council seem able to turn up to their meetings, which is beating 60% of the new Board :)

  283. stpeter

    I was working with IANA on that for a while

  284. stpeter

    heh

  285. stpeter

    oh is there a Board meeting now? yikes

  286. ralphm

    stpeter: well, not yet, I suppose :-(

  287. Tobias has joined

  288. stpeter

    hmm

  289. m&m has left

  290. stpeter

    BTW the IETF plenary is live streamed at http://www.ietf.org/live/ if you're interested (the fun technical content hasn't started yet)

  291. bear

    when does it start?

  292. stpeter

    the plenary has started, but preliminaries are happening right now

  293. stpeter

    I can tell you when Bruce's talk starts

  294. bear

    I have the youtube channel up but it says "Please Stand By"

  295. bear

    the text stream is going strong tho

  296. m&m has joined

  297. stpeter

    http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u is the audio

  298. m&m has left

  299. Tobias has joined

  300. bear opens m3u

  301. Tobias

    is the video steam working for any one?

  302. bear

    yes but i had to refresh many times

  303. stpeter

    fippo says "http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work"

  304. Tobias

    that works

  305. fippo

    tobias: your'e living in a developing country too, eh?

  306. Tobias

    fippo, apparently

  307. Tobias

    for me it just showed "This video is not available.", "Sorry about that" also known as ..."We're sooooo sorryyyy"

  308. Tobias

    fippo, did they geolock the youtube stream? ^^

  309. stpeter

    the audio stream might be good enough

  310. Tobias

    stpeter, the meetecho link worked :)

  311. stpeter

    great

  312. stpeter

    the meetecho guys are cool

  313. stpeter

    plus they like xmpp ;-)

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  316. ralphm

    Is GEMA blocking even the IETF now?

  317. bear laughs at how quickly the "so sometimes it is possible to have consensus" comment was responded to

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