XMPP Council - 2014-03-12

00:57:28 stpeter has left
02:24:16 jabberjocke has joined
03:19:28 Tobias has left
06:29:44 jabberjocke has left
07:29:00 Tobias has left
08:18:25 Tobias has joined
08:56:34 Tobias do we have a meeting todayß
08:56:36 Tobias do we have a meeting today?
08:56:52 Kev We do.
08:57:03 Kev I just have to survive until then (not feel great yesterday/today)
08:57:27 Kev We've got the TLS/DNSSEC/Dialback ProtoXEP and killing 27 with fire on the agenda.
08:57:40 Tobias ahh..ok
11:04:19 Tobias has left
12:25:21 Tobias has joined
13:33:34 m&m has joined
14:30:40 stpeter has joined
14:59:13 Lance has joined
15:05:02 bear has joined
15:27:01 Zash has joined
15:52:54 m&m meeting in 10?
15:53:02 stpeter yep
15:53:04 stpeter AFAIK
15:53:17 m&m stpeter: I have a question for you
15:53:25 stpeter m&m: I have an answer for you!
15:53:38 m&m how do you deal with the RC versions of Draft XEPs?
15:53:47 stpeter ah
15:53:50 stpeter undocumented :-)
15:53:56 m&m that is not covered in the README (-:
15:53:59 stpeter yeah
15:54:33 stpeter first we make sure that they have <interim/> element the header
15:54:35 m&m we can have this discuss on the editor@ list
15:54:37 stpeter in the header
15:54:39 stpeter sure
16:03:40 fippo oh kev?
16:04:57 Kev Tada
16:05:19 Kev 1) Rolls
16:05:27 Lance here
16:05:53 fippo here, now officially being an &yeti
16:06:49 Kev Congrats :)
16:06:50 Dave Cridland has joined
16:06:54 Kev Tobias?
16:07:39 Kev Have poked Matt.
16:07:49 Tobias there
16:08:05 Kev OK.
16:08:19 Kev 2) Do we want to burn 27 with fire?
16:08:29 m&m vaguely recalls MattJ sending apologies?
16:08:54 Kev m&m: Thanks. Not sure why I missed that, will check later.
16:09:06 Lance What are the problems with 27?
16:09:13 Kev Lance: It's fundamentally broken.
16:09:33 stpeter it would be good to document those, I suppose, if someone is motivated to do so
16:09:34 Tobias Lance, http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_E2E_Security#Comparative_Overview first row
16:09:45 fippo and the requirements "for privacy and security features in a well-rounded instant messaging system" have changed since 2004.
16:09:54 Lance Quite. I'd just like us to have a list of reasons to note when we kill it with fire
16:10:05 Kev Lance: But, it encrypts but doesn't sign messages, and signs presence but without replay protection.
16:10:32 Lance As long as we can point to 'this is why', +1 fire
16:10:34 m&m PGP doesn't have message integrity protection
16:10:44 Dave Cridland m&m, Really?
16:10:50 m&m from the last I looked
16:10:59 Tobias m&m, PGP in general or the way XEP-0027 uses it?
16:11:02 m&m it was added to CMS fairly recently, but I don't see updates to PGP for that
16:11:46 Kev I /think/ the right path is that it's currently Active, so it should be moved to Deprecated and then Obsolete.
16:12:02 Kev So I think 3) Move XEP-0027 to Deprecated
16:12:06 Kev +1
16:12:20 Lance +1
16:12:24 m&m Tobias: in general, to the best of my knowledge
16:12:28 MattJ Hey
16:12:33 Kev Afternoon.
16:12:45 fippo '+1 as well
16:12:51 MattJ +1 to #2, +1 to #3 :)
16:12:56 Tobias +1
16:13:08 m&m Tobias: let's talk later this week, I can help you update the E2E wiki
16:13:19 Kev 3) Move XEP-0027 to Obsolete
16:13:24 Kev +1
16:13:31 stpeter heh
16:13:43 m&m (-:
16:13:45 stpeter wouldn't that be 4)
16:13:46 Dave Cridland Work that state machine.
16:13:55 Tobias m&m, happy to do that :) i'd be great to have a good overview of what solutions we have and how they all failed :D before we start another one
16:14:04 Tobias Kev, +1 on that
16:14:10 fippo ... +1 to burning it with fire, +1 to deprecating it, +1 to obsoleting it
16:14:33 Lance +1 obsolete
16:15:47 Kev I think that's everyone agreed to obsolete it. It's a shame that only the author can retract, because that seems more appropriate than Obsolete, but there we go.
16:15:51 Kev 4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/starttls-dialback.html Accept?
16:16:03 Kev I need to vote on list on this.
16:16:30 Lance +1 accept, but it needs some editing & clarifications
16:16:52 Dave Cridland Kev, Retracted is only moved to from Experimental actually.
16:16:55 Lance in particular, the text in example 16 confused me
16:17:16 Kev Dave Cridland: By the state machine, rather than the text, I think.
16:17:22 Tobias +1 on accepting that
16:17:44 Dave Cridland Lance, I'm certainly not going to claim it's ready for anything more than Experimental.
16:17:48 fippo the text in example should say something along the lines of "capulet ignores the EXTERNAL offer, despite what xep-0178 says, and uses dialback"
16:18:09 MattJ +1 to accept
16:18:36 Kev Assuming Fippo is +1, that leaves me on-list.
16:18:44 MattJ I'll note that I thought it was an informational/best practice document, until it started getting into protocol details
16:18:44 fippo oh well, 0178 only says "Server1 considers EXTERNAL to be its preferred SASL mechanism", not that it should do that
16:18:53 Dave Cridland "In this instance, Capulet ignores the EXTERNAL offer (counter to the advice in XEP-0178), and uses with dialback"
16:19:11 Kev 5) Date of next.
16:19:26 Dave Cridland MattJ, It *could* be Informational; I leant toward Standards Track because it can be tested.
16:19:27 Kev SBTSBC?
16:19:41 Lance wfm
16:19:49 Tobias wfm
16:19:52 fippo wfm
16:19:54 stpeter agrees with Dave about testability
16:19:58 m&m Re: starttls-dialback, does the Council want it to be Standards Track or Informational?
16:20:24 Lance given dave's comment, i lean standards track
16:20:28 MattJ time/date wfm
16:20:41 MattJ m&m, as is, standards track
16:20:42 Kev I need to have read it before I commend
16:20:47 Kev Or comment, for that matter.
16:21:09 stpeter I commend you for commenting
16:21:25 Kev I note that other similar things (e.g. 178) are Informational.
16:21:45 fippo so is 0185. I have no strong preference here.
16:21:46 stpeter and they might be better as standards track, but I'd need to look again
16:21:50 Dave Cridland stpeter, When he's commented, he'll command.
16:22:34 m&m I will poll the council again just prior to advancement
16:22:36 Kev I'm happy enough the ST, there isn't a clear Right Answer here, to me.
16:22:42 Lance oh, fippo: is 185 obsoleted by 220?
16:22:54 Kev I'll give it a read and comment/commend/command onlist.
16:22:58 Kev 5) Any other business
16:23:10 fippo lance: no, 0185 is just a nice way to implement 0220
16:23:14 stpeter I'm working on an update to XEP-0138
16:23:16 Dave Cridland Right, XEP-0185 is not required for interop, so Informational seems sensible. XEP-0178 is again testable, but I *think* it's merely expanding on RFC 3920 - I wonder if it's now covered by RFC 6120?
16:23:24 stpeter but no action by Council required at this time
16:23:34 Lance ah, ok. i saw "however, the recommendations in this document have been incorporated into Server Dialback (XEP-0220) [2]." and was curious
16:24:08 Tobias no AOB from me
16:24:13 Lance no AOB here
16:24:17 Kev I think we're done then.
16:24:19 Kev Thanks all.
16:24:19 m&m AOB from XEPs
16:24:27 Kev m&m: Just in time.
16:24:29 Kev What've you got?
16:24:30 m&m XEP-0124 is available now to review
16:24:48 Kev m&m: So you want a vote on that next meeting?
16:25:10 m&m Kev: that's your decision (-
16:25:20 m&m but all of the changes are available in 1.10rc3
16:25:31 m&m http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0124-1.11rc3.html
16:25:34 Kev I'm not sure it is, actually.
16:25:53 Kev I think once we get told you want a vote on a new version, we have to do it :)
16:26:31 m&m whether it's the next meeting or sometime later is your decision
16:26:36 Kev Fair.
16:26:40 m&m (-:
16:26:55 Kev OK, that's in my TODO.
16:27:02 Kev Anything else?
16:27:04 m&m it's up for your review, and yes a vote is expected (-:
16:27:21 m&m nothing from me … will get the newest protoXEP up before the end of the week
16:27:25 Kev Ta.
16:27:28 Kev Then we're done.
16:27:29 Kev Thanks all
16:27:32 Kev bangs the gavel
16:27:55 MattJ Thanks Kev
16:27:56 Tobias thank you
16:56:10 Tobias has joined
17:29:57 Peter Waher has joined
17:32:26 Tobias has joined
17:33:49 Peter Waher has left
18:36:52 Lance has joined
18:57:19 Lance has joined
20:26:16 jabberjocke has joined
20:39:45 jabberjocke has left
20:40:24 jabberjocke has joined
21:10:41 Tobias has left
21:14:03 Tobias has joined
22:41:49 Tobias has left
22:44:28 m&m has left
23:10:30 Zash has left
23:37:05 Lance has left
23:55:02 stpeter has left