XMPP Council - 2016-01-06

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  31. Kev Right, that's MUC2 (MIX) finally submitted.
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  33. Dave Cridland \o/
  34. fippo \o/\o/
  35. Flow was about time :)
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  37. Kev I took the slightly unusual approach of annotating in the ProtoXEP those points that I thought most needed list discussion. Partly in order to provoke that discussion, but mostly as a warning to early implementors so they think about both cases and don't write code that makes switching later hard.
  38. Dave Cridland That's useful, I think. The TODO in the XML comments possibly less so.
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  48. SamWhited Woot! Catching up on this mornings conversations… Kev++
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  52. Kev Lance: I seem to be here, so as long as someone says my name to summon me, I'm happy to spare 30mins to be a poor imitation of SamWhited if that's useful.
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  56. Lance summons Kev
  57. Lance it is time
  58. Lance 0) Roll call
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  60. Kev I assume that's "Yep, please scribe" :)
  61. Lance yep :)
  62. psa hi
  63. Dave Cridland Afternoon.
  64. Lance MattJ Tobias ?
  65. Tobi here
  66. Lance ah, different nick
  67. Tobi yeah...too lazy to move to the other machine or start another swift instance
  68. Lance 1) Update XEP-0080 <https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/128>
  69. Tobi +1
  70. psa +1
  71. Lance I'm +1
  72. Tobi finally a change that you cna read during the meeting :)
  73. psa heh
  74. Dave Cridland While this looks OK, does this imply that consumers of this format need to handle unexpected elements?
  75. Tobi Dave Cridland, isn't that always the case?
  76. Tobi you are supposed to ignore tags you don't understand
  77. Dave Cridland I hadn't thought about this until just now; happy to raise this on the list, mind.
  78. MattJ Here
  79. Dave Cridland Tobi, Not always; ISTR a lengthy discussion about cases where there was a single element expected, and multiple elements were forbidden.
  80. Lance We've added elements before, such as the timezone info
  81. Dave Cridland Lance, Since Draft?
  82. Lance yes
  83. Dave Cridland Lance, As I say, not against the change, I just noticed now there's no warning to clients that new elements may be added.
  84. Dave Cridland So I'll vote +1, but with food for thought for the future.
  85. Lance nods
  86. Lance 2) ProtoXEP Mediated Information eXchange (MIX): Accept as Experimental? < http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html >
  87. Dave Cridland +1
  88. Lance +1
  89. Tobi haven't read it yet..will do so tomorrow and vote on list
  90. SamWhited +1…
  91. Dave Cridland SamWhited, I'd +2 if I could.
  92. Lance psa MattJ?
  93. Kev tries to decide whether to record Sam's +1 in the minutes :)
  94. psa +1 - let the discussion begin!
  95. Kev (Matt didn't vote on item 1 either, that I recorded)
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  97. MattJ +1 to altaccuracy
  98. MattJ +1 to MIX
  99. Lance 3) Summit technical agenda
  100. psa well, that is, let the long overdue public discussion begin ;-)
  101. Lance This was requested by Dave
  102. psa good idea to establish a bit of an agenda ahead of time
  103. Dave Cridland Yes, I'd at least like to have a few topics we'd like to get covered.
  104. Lance I'll take a chance here, and say MIX :)
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  106. Dave Cridland I think MIX is one thing that warrants discussion. Possibly e2e, given the momentum in this area might yield some fruitful discussion.
  107. Tobi E2E also feels sensible with OMEMO and Flow's recent post
  108. Kev I think Flow (if he's attending) might like to say something about the E2E discussions at the GSoC summit.
  109. Kev I say "might like", but I mean "should be encouraged to" :)
  110. Dave Cridland I don't know if Flow is attending; I think he isn't. But we can figure something out.
  111. Tobi but OMEMO folks are i think
  112. Tobi = daniel
  113. Kev I'd suggest whatever happens that we don't put too many topics on the table that we can't go off-piste (behave) if something interesting comes up. But otherwise, setting some goals for the summit sounds like a good idea to me (having thought about it overnight).
  114. Dave Cridland Also, Kev suggested encouraging someone to take proper minutes, even at the cost of spnsoring someone's attendance. I'd like to know if the Council supports this before raising it at the Board meeting.
  115. Tobi i like the idea..more communication is good
  116. Lance I think having MIX and E2E as target topics is reasonable to me.
  117. psa Proper minutes would be very desirable - it seems that we could crowdsource that via etherpad
  118. Lance +1 to sponsoring a minute taker
  119. Kev psa: I think that generally unless one or two specific people who are good/motivated at that have attended, it's not been done.
  120. psa we actually had decent minutes for the last summit until I dropped off
  121. psa nods to Kev
  122. Dave Cridland But it sounds like E2E and MIX are the big ones. I don't think we have sufficient IoT people, otherwise I'd suggest that.
  123. psa right
  124. SamWhited RE minutes: If you want, enso.me (similar to Talky, which we used last time) has a shared notepad built in which works pretty well. No idea how it compares to etherpad, but it's in the same window as the people dialing in, which is nice.
  125. psa and I think the Jingle stuff is mostly done - those are smaller fixes anyway and probably don't require broader discussion
  126. psa SamWhited: same for Jitsi Meet, no? ;-)
  127. SamWhited psa: I don't think Meet has notes? Maybe they've updated that since I last used it though
  128. SamWhited Since they're effectively just different frontends on the same platform
  129. SamWhited mett.jit.si doesn't make you sign in, which is nice; wish it did have notes.
  130. SamWhited Oh hey, nope, psa is right. Ignore me, it totally has notes.
  131. Lance Ok, I think we have a good target agenda then
  132. Lance 4) Date of next
  133. Lance sbtsbc?
  134. Kev I don't think I have a suitable summary to minute for the minutes discussion.
  135. MattJ wfm
  136. Tobi wfm
  137. Lance Kev: Council recommends discussing MIX and E2E at the summit
  138. MattJ Kev, "various options for taking minutes were discussed" - I don't think there was a conclusion reached about which we'll take :)
  139. psa SamWhited: click "shared document" in the top bar and that brings up etherpad in Jitsi Meet ;-)
  140. Kev Lance: I've captured that. It was the second point about minutes that I don't think had any conclusions
  141. MattJ That will probably be made on the day, as usual
  142. Dave Cridland Lance, Does the Council want minutes? Does the Council want the Board to Do Something about it?
  143. Tobi i'd say yes to both
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  145. Kev Can I suggest treating this as a pseudovote and getting a +1/-1 from everyone?
  146. Lance Yes
  147. Lance +1
  148. psa +1
  149. Kev I suggest treating this as ...
  150. Tobi +1
  151. Kev Thanks folks, your minutetaker is once again satisfied. :)
  152. Dave Cridland Thanks,#
  153. Tobi thanks
  154. Lance Thanks Kev
  155. Lance psa, Dave: sbtsbc?
  156. Dave Cridland Yes, that's fine.
  157. psa WFM
  158. Lance 5) AOB
  159. Tobi none here
  160. psa I have a question
  161. psa about how we'd like to handle the Jingle updates
  162. psa which are somewhat coordinated across 4 XEPs
  163. psa would the Council prefer to consider those all together at the same time?
  164. psa or trickle out the spec updates?
  165. Dave Cridland Yes.
  166. Lance How coordinated do they need to be?
  167. Dave Cridland I'd like to trickle out the spec updates, but then trigger the formal approval and update simultaneously.
  168. Kev Jingle-XEP-Trickle. I see what you did there.
  169. Dave Cridland Kev, (n)Ice joke there.
  170. Kev Also good.
  171. psa Dave Cridland: sure, that works for me
  172. psa I'll start pushing toward that goal
  173. psa having the Jingle ICE XEP published will help
  174. psa that's enough for me to proceed, thanks
  175. psa </aob>
  176. Lance thanks Peter
  177. Lance Any other AOB?
  178. Dave Cridland I'd just like to thank Kev for both the minutes and MIX.
  179. psa indeed, thanks Kev!
  180. Kev Welcome, and Peter did most of the MIX wording.
  181. Lance Thanks Kev
  182. Dave Cridland It's the submission that makes me particularly happy, though.
  183. Lance Looks like no other AOB
  184. Lance bangs gavel
  185. Lance thanks all
  186. Kev Yes. Although now I'll have to try to find someone to implement it in our codebases :)
  187. Kev Thanks all :)
  188. psa SamWhited: I'm still thinking about your i18n question ;-)
  189. Kev I want special recognition for managing to write 2016 not once, but twice in the minutes without writing 2015 first.
  190. Lance ^5 Kev
  191. Kev Thank you, thank you.
  192. Tobi is there an award for that?
  193. SamWhited psa: Yah, no worries; I actually avoided it all together by just not having a preparation step and always doing enforcement (at least with existing profiles, the benchmarks I wrote were plenty fast)
  194. Kev I'm hoping the award is Tobi +1ing MIX :)
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  196. psa hehehe
  197. psa SamWhited: interesting!
  198. Dave Cridland Lance, I think you mean ^6.
  199. Kev Two observations after taking minutes (neither of which need any actions, they're just observations). 1) Writing the minutes as you went along was easier that waiting until afterwards (possibly I should have always done this instead of doing it post-meeting). 2) I think it helps to be thinking of the minutes to ensure stuff that means actions gets definite conclusions (which was my argument for not having non-chair minute takers, but in this case as long as people don't mind the minute taker moaning until there's a resolution that seems to not matter).
  200. psa Kev: good points, both
  201. Dave Cridland Indeed. In real meetings, when I'm taking minutes, I've tended to halt discussion in order to read out my suggested summary if I can't figure it out, or it it's unclear.
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  203. Lance Kev: good feedback, thanks
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  205. Lance For the record then: anytime a minute taker wants to request a +/-1 vote to clarify things or get a summary, I'll allow it :)
  206. Lance SamWhited ^
  207. SamWhited Ack
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