I took the slightly unusual approach of annotating in the ProtoXEP those points that I thought most needed list discussion. Partly in order to provoke that discussion, but mostly as a warning to early implementors so they think about both cases and don't write code that makes switching later hard.
Dave Cridland
That's useful, I think. The TODO in the XML comments possibly less so.
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SamWhited
Woot! Catching up on this mornings conversations… Kev++
Dave Cridlanddoes his school run duty prior to Council.
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Kev
Lance: I seem to be here, so as long as someone says my name to summon me, I'm happy to spare 30mins to be a poor imitation of SamWhited if that's useful.
SamWhitedsteals covert glances at his computer while in another meeting.
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Lancesummons Kev
Lance
it is time
Lance
0) Roll call
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Kev
I assume that's "Yep, please scribe" :)
Lance
yep :)
psa
hi
Dave Cridland
Afternoon.
Lance
MattJ Tobias ?
Tobi
here
Lance
ah, different nick
Tobi
yeah...too lazy to move to the other machine or start another swift instance
finally a change that you cna read during the meeting :)
psa
heh
Dave Cridland
While this looks OK, does this imply that consumers of this format need to handle unexpected elements?
Tobi
Dave Cridland, isn't that always the case?
Tobi
you are supposed to ignore tags you don't understand
Dave Cridland
I hadn't thought about this until just now; happy to raise this on the list, mind.
MattJ
Here
Dave Cridland
Tobi, Not always; ISTR a lengthy discussion about cases where there was a single element expected, and multiple elements were forbidden.
Lance
We've added elements before, such as the timezone info
Dave Cridland
Lance, Since Draft?
Lance
yes
Dave Cridland
Lance, As I say, not against the change, I just noticed now there's no warning to clients that new elements may be added.
Dave Cridland
So I'll vote +1, but with food for thought for the future.
Lancenods
Lance
2) ProtoXEP Mediated Information eXchange (MIX): Accept as Experimental? < http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html >
Dave Cridland
+1
Lance
+1
Tobi
haven't read it yet..will do so tomorrow and vote on list
SamWhited
+1…
Dave Cridland
SamWhited, I'd +2 if I could.
Lance
psa MattJ?
Kevtries to decide whether to record Sam's +1 in the minutes :)
psa
+1 - let the discussion begin!
Kev
(Matt didn't vote on item 1 either, that I recorded)
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MattJ
+1 to altaccuracy
MattJ
+1 to MIX
Lance
3) Summit technical agenda
psa
well, that is, let the long overdue public discussion begin ;-)
Lance
This was requested by Dave
psa
good idea to establish a bit of an agenda ahead of time
Dave Cridland
Yes, I'd at least like to have a few topics we'd like to get covered.
Lance
I'll take a chance here, and say MIX :)
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Dave Cridland
I think MIX is one thing that warrants discussion. Possibly e2e, given the momentum in this area might yield some fruitful discussion.
Tobi
E2E also feels sensible with OMEMO and Flow's recent post
Kev
I think Flow (if he's attending) might like to say something about the E2E discussions at the GSoC summit.
Kev
I say "might like", but I mean "should be encouraged to" :)
Dave Cridland
I don't know if Flow is attending; I think he isn't. But we can figure something out.
Tobi
but OMEMO folks are i think
Tobi
= daniel
Kev
I'd suggest whatever happens that we don't put too many topics on the table that we can't go off-piste (behave) if something interesting comes up. But otherwise, setting some goals for the summit sounds like a good idea to me (having thought about it overnight).
Dave Cridland
Also, Kev suggested encouraging someone to take proper minutes, even at the cost of spnsoring someone's attendance. I'd like to know if the Council supports this before raising it at the Board meeting.
Tobi
i like the idea..more communication is good
Lance
I think having MIX and E2E as target topics is reasonable to me.
psa
Proper minutes would be very desirable - it seems that we could crowdsource that via etherpad
Lance
+1 to sponsoring a minute taker
Kev
psa: I think that generally unless one or two specific people who are good/motivated at that have attended, it's not been done.
psa
we actually had decent minutes for the last summit until I dropped off
psanods to Kev
Dave Cridland
But it sounds like E2E and MIX are the big ones. I don't think we have sufficient IoT people, otherwise I'd suggest that.
psa
right
SamWhited
RE minutes: If you want, enso.me (similar to Talky, which we used last time) has a shared notepad built in which works pretty well. No idea how it compares to etherpad, but it's in the same window as the people dialing in, which is nice.
psa
and I think the Jingle stuff is mostly done - those are smaller fixes anyway and probably don't require broader discussion
psa
SamWhited: same for Jitsi Meet, no? ;-)
SamWhited
psa: I don't think Meet has notes? Maybe they've updated that since I last used it though
SamWhited
Since they're effectively just different frontends on the same platform
SamWhited
mett.jit.si doesn't make you sign in, which is nice; wish it did have notes.
SamWhited
Oh hey, nope, psa is right. Ignore me, it totally has notes.
Lance
Ok, I think we have a good target agenda then
Lance
4) Date of next
Lance
sbtsbc?
Kev
I don't think I have a suitable summary to minute for the minutes discussion.
MattJ
wfm
Tobi
wfm
Lance
Kev: Council recommends discussing MIX and E2E at the summit
MattJ
Kev, "various options for taking minutes were discussed" - I don't think there was a conclusion reached about which we'll take :)
psa
SamWhited: click "shared document" in the top bar and that brings up etherpad in Jitsi Meet ;-)
Kev
Lance: I've captured that. It was the second point about minutes that I don't think had any conclusions
MattJ
That will probably be made on the day, as usual
Dave Cridland
Lance, Does the Council want minutes? Does the Council want the Board to Do Something about it?
Tobi
i'd say yes to both
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Kev
Can I suggest treating this as a pseudovote and getting a +1/-1 from everyone?
Lance
Yes
Lance
+1
psa
+1
Kev
I suggest treating this as ...
Tobi
+1
Kev
Thanks folks, your minutetaker is once again satisfied. :)
Dave Cridland
Thanks,#
Tobi
thanks
Lance
Thanks Kev
Lance
psa, Dave: sbtsbc?
Dave Cridland
Yes, that's fine.
psa
WFM
Lance
5) AOB
Tobi
none here
psa
I have a question
psa
about how we'd like to handle the Jingle updates
psa
which are somewhat coordinated across 4 XEPs
psa
would the Council prefer to consider those all together at the same time?
psa
or trickle out the spec updates?
Dave Cridland
Yes.
Lance
How coordinated do they need to be?
Dave Cridland
I'd like to trickle out the spec updates, but then trigger the formal approval and update simultaneously.
Kev
Jingle-XEP-Trickle. I see what you did there.
Dave Cridland
Kev, (n)Ice joke there.
Kev
Also good.
psa
Dave Cridland: sure, that works for me
psa
I'll start pushing toward that goal
psa
having the Jingle ICE XEP published will help
psa
that's enough for me to proceed, thanks
psa
</aob>
Lance
thanks Peter
Lance
Any other AOB?
Dave Cridland
I'd just like to thank Kev for both the minutes and MIX.
psa
indeed, thanks Kev!
Kev
Welcome, and Peter did most of the MIX wording.
Lance
Thanks Kev
Dave Cridland
It's the submission that makes me particularly happy, though.
Lance
Looks like no other AOB
Lancebangs gavel
Lance
thanks all
Kev
Yes. Although now I'll have to try to find someone to implement it in our codebases :)
Kev
Thanks all :)
psa
SamWhited: I'm still thinking about your i18n question ;-)
Kev
I want special recognition for managing to write 2016 not once, but twice in the minutes without writing 2015 first.
Lance
^5 Kev
Kev
Thank you, thank you.
Tobi
is there an award for that?
SamWhited
psa: Yah, no worries; I actually avoided it all together by just not having a preparation step and always doing enforcement (at least with existing profiles, the benchmarks I wrote were plenty fast)
Kev
I'm hoping the award is Tobi +1ing MIX :)
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psa
hehehe
psa
SamWhited: interesting!
Dave Cridland
Lance, I think you mean ^6.
Kev
Two observations after taking minutes (neither of which need any actions, they're just observations). 1) Writing the minutes as you went along was easier that waiting until afterwards (possibly I should have always done this instead of doing it post-meeting). 2) I think it helps to be thinking of the minutes to ensure stuff that means actions gets definite conclusions (which was my argument for not having non-chair minute takers, but in this case as long as people don't mind the minute taker moaning until there's a resolution that seems to not matter).
psa
Kev: good points, both
Dave Cridland
Indeed. In real meetings, when I'm taking minutes, I've tended to halt discussion in order to read out my suggested summary if I can't figure it out, or it it's unclear.
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Lance
Kev: good feedback, thanks
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Lance
For the record then: anytime a minute taker wants to request a +/-1 vote to clarify things or get a summary, I'll allow it :)