XMPP Council - 2016-01-13

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  75. psa hi
  76. Lance waves
  77. Lance it is time
  78. SamWhited Hiya
  79. Lance 0) Roll call
  80. Dave Cridland Here.
  81. Lance Tobi MattJ
  82. Tobi here
  83. psa here
  84. Lance There is currently nothing on the agenda, unless anyone as AOB.
  85. Lance We are still tracking the Jingle ICE XEP that was approved, but not yet published.
  86. MattJ Here
  87. Lance 1) Date of next
  88. Lance sbtsbc?
  89. MattJ wfm
  90. Dave Cridland Works for me.
  91. Dave Cridland Who's coming to the Summit from the Council?
  92. Tobi wfm
  93. SamWhited AOB: Whatever happened to deprecating privacy lists? Probably something I was supposed to do and forgot about
  94. m&m hopes he can get to another summit sometime
  95. Kev I'm not Council, but I'll be there.
  96. Dave Cridland m&m, They don't allow anyone with a beard on a plane anymore.
  97. Lance I will not be there this year
  98. m&m clearly
  99. Tobi i'll be there
  100. m&m but Chirs Deering and Jerome should be able to help you all out
  101. m&m Chris even
  102. Dave Cridland Chairs Deering.
  103. Lance I believe MattJ signed up
  104. Dave Cridland I believe Ralph is in contact with Chris.
  105. m&m Yes, he is
  106. Dave Cridland Lance, No, Wild Matthew signed up.
  107. Lance Ah, right :)
  108. Tobi must be his good twin
  109. Lance 2) AOB: Privacy lists
  110. MattJ Lance, yep, I'll be there
  111. m&m re jingle-ice — we'll get that published by next week
  112. Lance Were there still action items left to do here?
  113. MattJ as Wild Matthew
  114. SamWhited (might be nothing to discuss with privacy lists; I'm looking to see if there was some action that I or anyone else was supposed to do, but I can't remember)
  115. MattJ Grr, lag
  116. Dave Cridland I don't think we ever voted. I think we merely discussed on the list.
  117. MattJ I'm not sure if there was clear consensus
  118. MattJ translation from British: there was no clear consensus
  119. Dave Cridland If we do vote, I'd like to gather the user requirements that came from the discussion and see if we can come up with "modern" case-specific XEPs to handle them.
  120. Dave Cridland (ie, I'd vote not to deprecate it)
  121. Lance IIRC, the missing use case was blocking groups
  122. MattJ There was another - blocking non-roster contacts
  123. Dave Cridland And non-roster people.
  124. SamWhited I'd volunteer to add group/non-roster blocking to the blocking command XEP (blocking non-roster contacts appears to work for me, even if it's not compliant with the spec actually)
  125. Lance SamWhited: I'd suggest getting that discussion rolling again by proposing some updates to the blocking XEP then
  126. SamWhited Jinx. Will do.
  127. Lance 3) AOB?
  128. Lance Sounds like a no
  129. Tobi none here
  130. Lance bangs gavel
  131. Lance thanks all
  132. Tobi thanks you Lance
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  134. Kev SamWhited: I think Lance was probably there too.
  135. MattJ SamWhited, to be clear it's blocking *all* non-roster contacts
  136. SamWhited MattJ: ahh, gotcha, thanks.
  137. MattJ Some servers do it already (optionally), but it isn't per-user configurable
  138. Dave Cridland SamWhited, Putting in asides into the minutes? That's disgraceful behaviour.
  139. Dave Cridland SamWhited, Well done.
  140. MattJ Could be made so with ad-hoc commands, but the privacy-list supporters want a standard protocol
  141. SamWhited It was mentioned in the meeting by me :) it's legit.
  142. Dave Cridland Standardized ad-hoc would do it, mind.
  143. psa I have another question about handling the Jingle XEPs, mostly for the Editor Team but partly also for Lance. Unfortunately I worked on them all (166, 167, 176, 177) in a single branch, and then we forked 176 into a new XEP. I would be happy to set up separate branches for each XEP if that's easier to process. I think that I have 167 and 177 done but I'd like some feedback on the list for those changes, so posting temporary versions would be good (we used to do that at http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/ but haven't done so in a while, I think). 166 is close to done but Lance was interested in adding some implementation notes and I'm not sure where he stands with that. And then we need to publish the new / replacement jingle-ice spec. IMHO a good next step would be publishing both 167 and 177 in the temp dir.
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  145. SamWhited > <domain> (the domain itself matches, as does any user@domain or domain/resource)
  146. SamWhited Am I missing something; that sounds like domain blocking IS implemented.
  147. SamWhited psa: I'd say it doesn't matter; separate branches would keep the commit history cleaner and make review easier, but it shouldn't be hard to process either way.
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  149. Dave Cridland SamWhited, Did we mention domain blocking?
  150. SamWhited Pretty sure that was one of the things people said… or at least that I was reading on the old topic.
  151. SamWhited goes to check the minutes he just sent out.
  152. Zash Hey, what's up? // I implemented blocking from scratch
  153. SamWhited Zash: Just discussing deprecation again; I was trying to address the things people said were missing from the blocking command.
  154. SamWhited deprecation of privacy lists, that is.
  155. Zash Right, I got that much
  156. SamWhited Ah, nope, it was groups, not domains. Nevermind.
  157. Zash Groups and blocking people by default IIRC
  158. SamWhited I really don't see the use for groups, just added complication IMO, but it's not that much complication, so I'll add it if the council thinks it's really necessary.
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  160. SamWhited Actually, I change my mind, I'll bring it up on list again, but I think groups does just add needless complication and shouldn't be used that way. Now clients that get a block list have to do extra work to check if any given contact is a member of a group, that's a lot of extra logic over just checking if their JID is in a list.
  161. Dave Cridland SamWhited, The logic has to be there for PEP nodes with access-model roster, anyway.
  162. SamWhited Hmm… fair point.
  163. Zash SamWhited: It gets more complicated for clients if they have a group that is blocked and you add someone to it
  164. Zash And potential cross-client-sync issues
  165. SamWhited Do groups not do any sort of pub-sub? I should go check how that works.
  166. SamWhited (not the XEP pub sub, but just getting a push down when a group changes)
  167. Zash SamWhited: Sure
  168. Zash But someone creating a group and blocking it with one client that does this thing will be very confused when they add someone to that group from another client and they don't get blocked.
  169. Zash FWIW I agree this is not something I think groups should be used for
  170. Lance psa: +1 to publishing tmp versions for review
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  174. psa SamWhited / Lance OK I'll get busier so we can finish the Jingle revision process
  175. Lance psa: what all is actually left?
  176. Lance other than expanding 166 with implementation guidance?
  177. Lance and more diagrams :)
  178. fippo and evil things you do not want to talk aboutÃ? :-p
  179. psa heh
  180. psa Lance: I think that's mostly it
  181. Lance i'd love to talk about them
  182. Lance psa: ah, good. those changes don't need to be done before the slew of other xeps are published then, but i'll start writing
  183. Lance there is however, one item i'll bring up on list later: adding a framed transport type in addition to datagram and streaming
  184. psa I would also like to triple-check the jingle-ice spec against RFC 5245, RFC 6544, and draft-ietf-ice-trickle
  185. fippo psa: i'll see if I can find some time for that
  186. psa OK: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0166-1.2.html and http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0167-1.1.html and http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0177-1.2.html
  187. psa Lance: super
  188. psa and of course, it would be great to get feedback from folks like Fippo and Xander
  189. psa I'll post to standards@ with the links
  190. psa message sent
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  192. Lance psa: thanks for being awesome, as always
  193. psa haha
  194. psa just putting one foot in front of the other, as always ;-)
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