I'm not going to be able to be in the meeting today. Agenda item is: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/pars.html
MattJ
Here
Dave Cridland
Also present.
SamWhitednotates
Tobias
here :P
MattJ
Anyone else? or should we skip?
MattJ
Great :)
Zash
3/?
Tobias
of 5 i think
ralphm
hi
Zash
psa?
SamWhited
Who chairs in Lance's absence?
psa
here
MattJ
I nominate Dave Cridland
Dave Cridland
Oh. I suppose so.
Dave Cridlandwonders what he's done to MattJ.
Dave Cridland
Anyone object?
Dave Cridland
If not:
MattJ
Dave Cridland, you're a born leader, it was inevitable
Dave Cridland
1) Roll Call:
Tobias
here
MattJ
here
Dave Cridland
MattJ, Leaders called Dave are going out of fashion.
SamWhited
*snort*
Tobias
Donald is en vogue now I've heard
Dave Cridland
2) I think PARS is the only thing on the agenda. Anyone have a vote?
Tobias
i'll vote on list
Dave Cridland
Tobias, We almost have May as PM, it's looking promising we'll have Hammond as Chancellor as well. Many are holding out for Clarkson as Foreign Sec.
psa
Personally I don't (yet) see the need for PARS
psa
But that would make me +0 on publication.
Dave Cridland
I don't think I have any objections either.
Dave Cridland
MattJ, ?
Tobias
Dave Cridland, sounds like a fun team to obvserve from the mainland ;)
SamWhited
Dave: I'd consider moving to the UK if that were the case; Clarkson would make an awesome Foreign Sec; no messing about, if a country annoys him, they'd get punched in the face :)
ralphm
SamWhited: +1
ralphm
Also looking forward to him testing out all gov vehicles
MattJ
+1 to PARS
Dave Cridland
SamWhited, You appreciate that Clarkson's policies would be the same as Trump's?
SamWhited
(sorry, on topic, Dave does "no objections" mean +1 or +0?)
psa
sheesh, even in the XMPP Council meeting I can't get away from politics
SamWhited
Dave Cridland: Yah, except with more common sense and less racism
Dave Cridland
SamWhited, It makes no difference, actually. We don't vote for protoxeps, we only veto (or not).
SamWhited
ah, okay, I'll just mark you as a +1 then.
MattJ
SamWhited, you'll regret asking :)
Dave Cridland
SamWhited, But I'm more 0 than +1, i think.
MattJ
SamWhited, we don't +1 proposals, we just object or don't object, for $reasons
SamWhited
👍 thanks for the clarification.
MattJ
All the same in the end
SamWhited
Cool, I've recorded "no objection" for everyone but Tobias who will review and vote on list.
Tobias
sound correct
SamWhited
(wanted to clarify since we got a bit off topic; sorry :) )
Dave Cridland
OK, AOB?
Dave Cridland
I do note that there is an outstanding pull request to XEP-0053 (Registrar). It'd benefit the Board, I think, to have views from Council members.
Tobias
is there any action need from the council
Tobias
i put in in trello on behalf of Flow
Dave Cridland
Tobias, Council is not mandated to do anything. But I'll be recommending that Board ask Council's opinion.
SamWhited
Just having opinions here on the record would be good
ralphm
What's the status of the Registrar pages?
Dave Cridland
And yes, if anyone has opinions, then that'd short-cut that process.
ralphm
(not that this is a question for Council directly)
SamWhited
(related: Can someone make a "Needs Board" label on Github or give me permission to create labels?)
MattJ
Link to the PR?
SamWhited
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/192
MattJ
If I had any context on this, I don't remember
MattJ
Thanks
ralphm
(is not)
Tobias
i think it sounds sensible
MattJ
Ah yes
MattJ
I agree with this
SamWhited
Note that this would be work for the already behind editor team (but I'm not against it and also think it's sensible)
Dave Cridland
OK. Moving on:
ralphm
I thought somebody was working on having those pages generate again, but it's been a while since I hear about it
Dave Cridland
4) Next meeting:
Dave Cridland
Same time same place?
Tobias
wfm
psa
WFM
Dave Cridland
5) Ite, Meeting Est.
MattJ
+1
psa
@ralphm yes we need to get that fixed, I need to head to the airport soon but maybe I can look at it again on Friday when I'm back
Dave Cridland
Thanks all.
MattJ
Thanks Dave Cridland
psa
yep thanks!
Dave Cridland
And thanks to SamWhited for the minute-taking.
SamWhited
Date of next confirmed as 2016-07-20 15:00:00 UTC (going to start putting actual times in the minutes because I can never remember what or when sbtsbc is
ralphm
psa: there was also the question on where the source for it is now with the reshuffling of repos. I seem to remember the registrar section would need to be extracted from the old repo (preserving history)
ralphm
Kev: right?
Kev
Sorry, just sat down, how much context do I need to read?
ralphm
few lines back
ralphm
I was talking about the status of the registrar pages
Kev
I created https://github.com/xsf/registrar with all the old context in
Kev
But I don't remember if I did anything more with it.
ralphm
so it just needs something to autogen from that?
Kev
We're still suffering the aftermath of the dismal new site launch.
Dave Cridland
SamWhited, That was impressively quick, thanks.
SamWhited
Dave Cridland: Thanks; I like to take notes live, otherwise getting context afterwards is tricky, so they're already right there and ready to be sent :)
Tobias
there's also https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/192
ralphm
Kev: oh? I thought it was really smooth!
Kev
ralphm: I think how we update various things is still unclear.
ralphm
marvelous
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Tobias
right...i'm all for keeping the URLs working...just the question, where to keep the schema info..if we got it in a repo it's trivial to add 2 lines to the cronjob script that updates a directory with changes
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SamWhited
Let's keep the canonical version in the repo Kev made and have the website generate from that. If they're all mixed up it's just going to make updating registry entries (and keeping track of issues) harder for the editors.
Tobias
does the registrar repo include the schamata?
Tobias
psa, btw: were the schemata extracted from the XEP XML or were they independent?
ralphm
I don't think it is in that repo, and it might be better off either independent or as part of the XEP repo
ralphm
Tobias: good question
SamWhited
oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I didn't realize XSLs were something different from schemas.
Tobias
i think the repo Kev created is for the registry, it includes XSL files to translate the XML to XHTML i think
psa
Tobias: yes, extracted from the XEP once it advanced to Draft or whatever
psa
XSL, XSD, whatever ;-)
Tobias
so we have hisotric versions? or why was it not always taked from the XEPs and turned into XML/HTML, ....wonder why the intermediate files were version controlled
Tobias
if it's all in the XEPs we probably won't need another repo, right?
psa
these were intended to be machine-readable
SamWhited
Oh, these are the things in the XEPs? I'm so confused. I should probably learn how XML works outside of the basic profile XMPP uses one of these days…
psa
i.e., separate files so that a validating XMPP server (not recommended, but there are some!) could ingest those files directly into its process
Tobias
psa, and the schemata in the XEP XML isn't? were there manual steps involved?
Tobias
right
psa
how does someone (a machine) know where the schemas begin and end if they're mixed in with all that prose?
SamWhited
If this data is all in the XEPs, the XEPs are probably the source of truth, so I think where the extracted data lives is a matter of whos responsibility it is. If it's the editors responsibility to extract these from the XEPs, I'd say separate repo. If it's just a website thing and it's someone on the website teams responsibility, wherever they want (probably in the website repo)
Tobias
just want to avoid all to much duplicated work for editors or whoever...so thought it'd be possible to just take each of the blocks from http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#schemas and put it in its own XML schema file, right?
Tobias
i mean that's basically what was done with the old repo, not?
Tobias
just that the output was then version controlled
psa
But yeah at this point I don't think we probably need a separate schemas directory / repo - however, setting up redirects from the old URLs to the XEP URLs would be good
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Tobias
ok
Tobias
if someones knows how to rescue the schema folder from our old repo and put it in a github repo that would be great
Tobias
if that's done i'm happy to do the integration of registrar and schema repos in the new website
Kev
You mean extract the schema folder such that there's a new repo with all the old history of the folder, but containing only the contents of that one folder?
Tobias
right
Tobias
the thing you did for the registry folder
Kev
Yep, no idea how to do that :)
Kev
I've not been following the conversation, but is that something that there's agreement I should be doing now?
Tobias
i don't think we'll ever see more agreement than we have right now
Kev
OK.
Kev
You're Council, so I'll believe you :)
SamWhiteddissapeared for a moment, but if we want the history of one directory tree in a git repo you can do it with read-tree; it's fantastic.
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SamWhited
I made this issue for follow up work on proposed XEPs, please correct me if anything there is glaringly wrong or misunderstood: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/209
SamWhited
I suppose if the registries are generated straight from the XEPs we won't have to actually go through them all, the tooling can just check if they're experimental and add them to the proposed category
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Kev
So, 'schemas' as the name of the new repo?
Kev
Good - https://github.com/xsf/schemas
Kev
And the Editors have write access.
SamWhitedgoes ahead and submits a PR for a pet peeve of his
Kevgoes ahead and merges
SamWhitedwonders if there's a high five emoji; if not, there should be
Kev
I don't *think* so.
psa
^5 @SamWhited
SamWhited
Oh wow, I've seen people use that and thought it was some kind of odd twisty winky face :)
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MattJ
⁵
psa
SamWhited: yeah, took me awhile to figure out
MattJ
Could become a new complement in code reviews...
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Tobias
Dave Cridland, seem you've got Johnson instead of Clarkson ;)
SamWhited
Do we have a general rule for what to do if an author never replies to the "Your XEP was updated, please approve" email?
Also, I forgot to bring this up at the meeting this morning, but this could use council approval (or disaproval) next week: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/204
SamWhited
(I think it needs council since 0045 is Draft)
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Tobias
there is also https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/184 luring around for months :)
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Kev
I think the thing to do if an author doesn't respond is to ask Council what to do.
Kev
There's nothing in our bylaws (of which I'm aware) that requires authors to approve - Council is the body that is responsible for (most) XEPs.
Kev
Just that we usually have the authors manage these things, because why wouldn't we?
Tobias
And council rolls a dice?
Kev
Presumably Council would review the change and decide whether to accept it.
Tobias
ah ok
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Kev
I imagine usually authors don't reply because either they miss the poke, or they're not interested in working on the XEP any more.
Kev
If it's that they're active and missed it, poking again is sensible. If they're not interested in working on the XEP any more and it's stable and stuff, just Council reviewing a change makes sense, if it's a XEP that needs continuing authorship, finding a new author probably makes sense.
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Tobias
right..poking definitely makes sense...just wanted to express that we shouldn't block any updates just because the original author is unresponsive