XMPP Council - 2017-01-25

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  69. moparisthebest I figured I should show up for this council meeting since you'll be discussing advancing XEP-0368, I'll just stay quiet unless someone highlights me :)
  70. Tobias seems it's about time
  71. Tobias 1) Roll call
  72. daniel here
  73. Dave Cridland Here, but not be for long.
  74. Dave Cridland (Daughter has a doctor's appt)
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  76. Tobias Link Mauve, SamWhited?
  77. Tobias maybe they'll join later
  78. Tobias 2) Minute taker
  79. Tobias I offer to do it, if nobody else wants
  80. Link Mauve I’m here.
  81. daniel i was just about to say that it's my turn again. but I can do it next time
  82. daniel oh no actually I can't because i'm probably going to be on a train to brussels
  83. Tobias ok..last week we didn't clearly indicate that we wanted to vote on things..so here explitily again
  84. Tobias 3) Voting to Advance XEP-0333 to Last Call
  85. SamWhited Sorry, here
  86. Tobias +1
  87. daniel +1
  88. SamWhited +1
  89. Link Mauve +1
  90. Tobias Dave Cridland, still there?
  91. Dave Cridland Yes, sorry. +1.
  92. Tobias perfect
  93. Tobias 4) Voting to Advance XEP-0233 to Last Call
  94. Tobias +1
  95. daniel on list
  96. Dave Cridland +1.
  97. Dave Cridland Still confused as to why Mili Verma's not listed as an author, mind.
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  99. Link Mauve On list too, I started reading the referenced specifications but I still don’t grasp all of the mechanisms there.
  100. SamWhited +1; Mind you, I don't feel that I have enough knowledge of Kerberos to know if this is a valid way to do things, or if it's used anywhere or if there have been deployment issues, etc. but I figure that's what LC is for.
  101. Dave Cridland SamWhited, Mili's edits basically were in response to developing this on WIndows and UNIX.
  102. Dave Cridland SamWhited, So I think it's well past ready.
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  104. Tobias 5) Voting on moving XEP-0368 forward (issuing LC)
  105. Link Mauve +1
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  107. Tobias +1
  108. daniel +1
  109. SamWhited +1
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  111. Dave Cridland +1
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  115. Tobias 6) Short update on XEP-0300 fixing
  116. Tobias I've updated XEP-0300 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/2f21fbef22d484d1651596aeb279b3386398c183 would be nice if people could give a quick overview sometime if they see issues with that, if not we can issue an LC to move that to draft in a couple weeks
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  124. Tobias 7) Voting on moving 2010 compliance suites to obsolete to prevent confusion while we work on the 2017 ones
  125. Tobias +1
  126. SamWhited +1
  127. daniel +1
  128. SamWhited for background, I plan on writing the 2017 ones on the flight to Brussels and withdrawing the 2016 ones
  129. Link Mauve I’ve read it earlier, I was wondering whether making sha3-256 and blake2b-256 mandatory is that sensible before every crypto library is well updated to support them.
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  131. Link Mauve Re: 6)
  132. Link Mauve Tobias, +1.
  133. Link Mauve Tobias, also obsoleting the 2012 ones.
  134. Dave Cridland -0
  135. SamWhited Oh are there 2012 ones too? Yah, +1 to obsoleting both of them.
  136. Dave Cridland I don't really care, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
  137. Dave Cridland But absolutely not a hill for me to die on.
  138. Tobias Link Mauve, something for the next meeting to vote on then...don't want the topics/voting issues to change mid-meeting, especially not mid-voting
  139. Link Mauve Sure.
  140. Tobias 8) Date of next
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  142. Tobias Does next week work for everyone, or do we want to skip a week?
  143. Link Mauve I won’t be here next week, I’ll be on the train to Brussels.
  144. Dave Cridland I'm not here next week.
  145. daniel i have to check my train schedule again. but i'm fairly certain i'm on a train at 1600Z
  146. SamWhited We could have a small impromptu meeting a little bit later in the day next week
  147. Dave Cridland I'll be driving to Bristol. To take a plane to Amsterdam. To take a train to Brussels.
  148. SamWhited Or on the 2nd
  149. Tobias right, so it'll probably make sense to skip a week
  150. Dave Cridland How many of us are in Brussels on Thursday?
  151. daniel either move it back a couple of hours or skip it
  152. daniel Thursdays yes. also wednesday
  153. Tobias Dave Cridland, i guess everyone
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  155. Dave Cridland We have had a Council meeting in the Summit before, could be fun to do again - might get someone else to take minutes.
  156. Link Mauve Finally! \o/
  157. SamWhited Find a pub and rope someone in to take minutes with the promise that I'll buy them a beer :)
  158. Tobias sure..so sometime thursdays next week?
  159. Link Mauve Wfm.
  160. daniel yes
  161. Tobias great...even if we fail to arrange it, there'll still be a week afterwards :)
  162. Tobias 9) AOB
  163. Tobias doesn't look like it
  164. Tobias bangs the gavel
  165. SamWhited Thanks!
  166. Tobias thanks everyone
  167. daniel thank you
  168. Link Mauve Thank you.
  169. SamWhited Tobias: RE 0300, I had the same thought as Link Mauve — how wide spread is sha3? I know the Go standard library has an implementation, but it tends to be ahead of other things. Eg. does Java have one? I don't think Rust does yet (not that that's very relavant, but it's the only other thing I really pay attention too)
  170. Tobias Link Mauve, what environments do you know of with bad sha3 support?
  171. Link Mauve None actually, but probably older openssl don’t have it yet.
  172. Tobias for anything C/C++ related it's probably a little issue as there's ready to use reference impementation code for sha3 and blake
  173. SamWhited Does stable Debian OpenSSL?
  174. Zash OpenSSL doesn't
  175. Zash There's code, but it's not exposed
  176. Tobias recent openssl has blake, they should have sha3 too, not?
  177. SamWhited Oh hey, I lied, Rust has sha3 in the standard library already.
  178. Tobias bouncycastle also has SHA3
  179. SamWhited or rather, it has an implementation already.
  180. Link Mauve OpenSSL apparently still doesn’t have it, according to https://github.com/openssl/openssl/issues/439
  181. SamWhited Personally I think it would be good to leave it as a SHOULD at least until OpenSSL has it.
  182. Tobias Oracle Java seems to have it since, earlier this month https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8004078 ^^
  183. Zash There's a keccak1600.c in the sources, however it's not used by anything
  184. Link Mauve daniel, any information about Android?
  185. daniel Link Mauve, not from the top of my head
  186. SamWhited If bouncy castle has it would it not work on Android?
  187. daniel SamWhited, if bc has it everything is fine
  188. Link Mauve Ok.
  189. Link Mauve Fyi, Python got both sha3 and blake2 only in 3.6.
  190. Tobias also the idea was having multiple algorithms set to MUST, so implementations strive to support as many of the MUST ones as possible...the it's more likely that there is matching support between two entities
  191. Link Mauve I’m not against it, I was just wondering whether it wouldn’t be a bit too early.
  192. Tobias Link Mauve, considering how rarely we seem to have updated XEP-0300 the idea was to make it more future proof :) but happy either way...but we should at least aggree on it before voting on it to LC
  193. SamWhited Hmm, I could go either way now. Future proof sounds good; I wouldn't want to block either way.
  194. Link Mauve Same, I’m fine with LC as is.
  195. Zash Isn't there some RFC / BCP you can point to for recommendations, so we don't need to update it as best practices change?
  196. Tobias great...also added a table for the textual names of the new hashes...IANA is a bit slow there, as their table was last updated 2006
  197. Tobias Zash, i don't know of one
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  199. Tobias Zash, I imagine the TLS spec has hash recommendations
  200. Tobias Zash, then again, RFCs don't get updated..only replaced by other RFCs
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