XMPP Council - 2017-09-20

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  107. Dave Cridland Are we meeting in a few minutes?
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  110. Tobias i think so
  111. jonasw oh it’s wednesday
  112. daniel 👍
  113. Tobias 1) Roll call
  114. daniel here
  115. Tobias SamWhited, daniel, Dave Cridland, Link Mauve, ping
  116. SamWhited I am partially here and will be fully here in a few minutes
  117. Dave Cridland Tobias: ?
  118. Tobias Dave Cridland, wanted to know whether you are there, for the roll call
  119. Tobias appears so
  120. Tobias 2) Minute Taker
  121. Tobias any volunteers?
  122. Link Mauve Hi, I’m here too.
  123. daniel i can do it
  124. Tobias jcbrand, or are you available for it?
  125. jcbrand Yes, I'm available
  126. jcbrand Tobias, daniel ^
  127. Tobias thanks
  128. Tobias 3) Vote on accepting "Consistent Color Generation" as Experimental XEP
  129. Tobias I'll vote on list
  130. daniel +1
  131. SamWhited +1
  132. Tobias 4) Vote on accepting "Jingle Encrypted Transports" as Experimental XEP
  133. Tobias I'll vote on list
  134. SamWhited I wonder if that TODO at the bottom means it's going to be split into separate XEPs, or just separate sections in this XEP? If new XEPs are coming anyways do we want to bother accepting it?
  135. Link Mauve 3) +1
  136. jonasw SamWhited, from my understanding on the mailing list, vanitasvitae said he’d add more XEPs specifying how to use the JET framework with OMEMO etc.
  137. Link Mauve 4) I’ll vote on list.
  138. Link Mauve (I haven’t read it yet.)
  139. Link Mauve (The new version.)
  140. jonasw (but don’t take only my word for it)
  141. SamWhited I'll just be on list then and ask first
  142. daniel on list
  143. SamWhited or double check the discussion
  144. Tobias 5) Discuss removal of Groupchat 1.0 protocol from XEP-0045 ( request by jonasw )
  145. jonasw I was only proxying that request
  146. Dave Cridland has left
  147. jonasw the original request is from a discussion in the xsf@ MUC, I think dwd was present
  148. jonasw and maybe SAm
  149. jonasw but I can give some details if needed ( Ge0rG can too if he’s around)
  150. daniel jonasw: please do. I don't know what this is about
  151. jonasw okay, will do
  152. jonasw the origin of the discussion was that currently there’s no way for a client to know whether it’s still joined (think s2s errors and other state desync)
  153. jonasw (no reasonable way that is)
  154. jonasw then there was the suggestion to simply send presence to ensure that one is still joined
  155. jonasw the issue with that is that it could be interpreted as a Groupchat 1.0 join, which would not be desired
  156. jonasw from this originated the suggestion to remove that Groupchat 1.0 protocol entirely
  157. jonasw which would have the advantage that clients are safe against accidental Groupchat 1.0 joins when they desync
  158. Tobias ähm...but just removing it from the XEP without incrementing namespace or so won't allow clients and rooms to apply that logic, will it?
  159. jonasw that’s mostly it I think
  160. peter Are there still clients that support "groupchat 1.0"?
  161. jonasw the argument was that Groupchat 1.0 does *most likely* not exist anymore anyways
  162. SamWhited Personally, I'm fine breaking compatibility with any clients that still support groupchat 1.0.
  163. Tobias ahh
  164. Kev peter: Yes, implicitly.
  165. peter nods to Kev
  166. Kev Because the fact that a presence chengae will cause a rejoin after an S2S blip is remarkably useful
  167. daniel groupchat 1.0 join is a presence without the <x/>?
  168. jonasw daniel, exactly
  169. Kev If you removed that, suddenly lots of people wouldn't be in MUCs when they thought they were.
  170. jonasw Kev, is it? I think it’s not useful
  171. jonasw you’d want to specify the needed history instead
  172. Kev Anyway, this is a hack.
  173. Kev If you want to change xep45 to allow you to know if you're in the room, add an iq to that effect.
  174. jonasw getting a proper error back and then making a proper join with history etc. sounds more reasonable
  175. jonasw Kev, that was also discussed, but is a separate topic
  176. Kev Removing legacy joins is very much the wrong option here, I think.
  177. Tobias alright..do we want to continue that discussion on standard ML?
  178. SamWhited That sounds sensible.
  179. Kev That'd be the appropriate place, I think.
  180. Tobias alright
  181. jonasw good idea
  182. peter FWIW I agree with Kev.
  183. Tobias 6) Consider advancing XEP-0387: XMPP Compliance Suites 2017 to Draft (added by SamWhited )
  184. Tobias Sounds sensible to me, i think we should issue a LC if other draft requirements are met
  185. daniel not sure if this is a blocker but the xmpp compliance suite requires the bookmark xep which can't be implemented right now
  186. SamWhited I would like to start having compliance suites created and advanced by the beginning of the year (eg. 2018 suites would be created and a recommendation by January 1, 2018). I think a sensible place to start trying to do that would be to make sure the 2017 ones are advanced
  187. SamWhited daniel: bookmark can't be implemented?
  188. daniel because it depends on pep functionality that doesn't exist
  189. daniel and which people don't want to have in pep
  190. daniel but it's fine with me if we start a last call on xep387
  191. daniel i can bring this up in the last call
  192. Link Mauve daniel, it could depend on the previous version, which was using 0049.
  193. Link Mauve Which is AFAIK how every client implements it.
  194. SamWhited Sounds good; thanks. I think using pubsub at all for bookmarks is RECOMMENDED, so I'm not sure if it's a problem. We can discuss on list.
  195. Ge0rG Can we get MIX out of 387, then?
  196. Tobias sound sensible then
  197. Tobias so we're all in favour of issuing a LC?
  198. SamWhited MIX has been out of it for a long time (and I still think that was a bad decision, but I did it)
  199. Link Mauve SamWhited, also, why are the compliance suites standards tracks, instead of informational?
  200. Ge0rG SamWhited: ah, thanks. Didn't get that update.
  201. SamWhited Link Mauve: I'm not sure, they include 2119 language?
  202. Link Mauve Hmm…
  203. SamWhited Anyways, +0 for LC (seeing as I'm the author) and we can discuss other things on list unless anyone sees a reason to block that really needs to be discussed now
  204. Tobias alright
  205. Tobias 7) Issue a new LC for XEP-0352: Client State Indication , based on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/427
  206. Tobias any objections to this?
  207. SamWhited +1 for LC
  208. Link Mauve +1
  209. Tobias i'm also +1
  210. daniel +1
  211. Tobias alright. Let's come to an end as we're already exceeding half an hour.
  212. Tobias 8) Date of next
  213. Tobias Same time next week?
  214. daniel wfm
  215. Link Mauve I won’t be here next week, I’m on vacations.
  216. Tobias wfm
  217. SamWhited wfm
  218. Tobias Link Mauve, happy to vote on list?
  219. Link Mauve Sure. :)
  220. Tobias alright
  221. Tobias 9) AOB
  222. SamWhited None from me
  223. Tobias great
  224. Tobias bangs the gavel
  225. Tobias thanks everybody
  226. SamWhited Good stuff; thanks all!
  227. Ge0rG Thanks council, I'll prepare a longer message regarding GC1 removal and self-pinging.
  228. jcbrand Tobias: Concerning the compliance suite, is it now going directly into Draft or first a LC?
  229. Tobias first LC
  230. SamWhited jcbrand: LC
  231. jcbrand thanks
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