dwdKev, In your iteam capacity, can you do the traditional shuffling of affiliations in this room, please?
KevI believe that's now done.
Link MauveThanks. :)
KevI think it's time
Ge0rGIndeed. My WiFi is good right now.
Ge0rG300ms RTT and less than 40% packet loss.
Kevdaniel, dwd, SamWhited?
dwdIt is time.
dwdBut of course I'd failed to set a reminder for this time. :-)
SamWhitedI am here.
dwdThat's everyone, then.
KevSo, selecting a chair
KevI'm going to tell Dave to volunteer.
KevAnyone else want to volunteer?
dwdI'm happy to volunteer.
SamWhitedI voluntell Dave as well.
KevDoesn't sound like anyone else volunteering, so:
Kev1) Selecting a new chair.
Votes for Dave
KevCongratulations to Dave.
dwdWell, thanks for the honour.
KevAll yours :p
dwdSo, my suggested agenda was simply:
dwd* Select a Chair
* Agree a day and time for meetings
* Agree about agenda mechanics (like if we're using Trello, when the
deadline for items to be added is, etc).
dwdWe've done the first, so we can move onto the second.
dwdWhen's a good time for everyone? I imagine that the overlap between Ge0rG / daniel and SamWhited is the deciding factor.
dwdIt doesn't have to be Wednesdays either, of course.
KevMy preference would be Wednesdays at 16:00 UK time.
Ge0rG1600-1700 UTC is good for me, DST-anchored in whatever local timezone
SamWhitedThis is a good time for me, although I will be pulled into a meeting in ~20 minutes (but it's normally a short one)
KevAnd that we explicitly go back to DST-anchoring on the UK.
dwdSamWhited, Does a half-hour earlier work for you, or would you prefer the *:30?
SamWhitedA half hour earlier would make it less likely that I get pulled away if that works for everyone else
dwdFWIW, I prefer local-time anchoring, but I'm happy to be flexible during the US/EU change overlap.
SamWhitedSo 1600 UK time?
dwdI think that's the proposal.
dwdSo, final item - mechanics. I'm fine with Trello personally, but I'd like to "fix" and publish an agenda about 24 hours before the meeting.
dwdDoes that work for people, or does anyone have any suggestions?
KevI'm in favour of publishing. I don't have huge feelings about fixing, but do note that we used to have lots of last-minute submission of protoXEPs so they could be voted on in Council. Which may or may not be a factor.
KevSo I'm happy to just go along with Chair on this.
danielI'm 'OK' with trello but I feel like last year we didn't actually use trello to its potential and just any text editor thingy would have been able to do the same job
SamWhitedLet's just add to the Trello TODO column and let the chair decide where to stop (depending on how long the meeting is going, whether it existed 24 hours before hand, etc.)
danielWhat im trying to say is that if we move that to the wiki or something we don't require people to create and account with trello
SamWhitedJust on the wiki
SamWhitedWhich is generally harder to get an account for
dwdKev, Do you still have agendabot somewhere?
KevWell, Trello's just for the chair really, Dave gets to then transfer that to agendums.
KevI don't, but I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to write a new one if we particularly wanted.
dwdWell, we'll go with Trello, but I'm absolutely fine with adding things on myself if people mail them to me or whatever.
dwdAnd I'll add a column for "Next meeting agenda", and send the result to the list before the meeting.
Ge0rGWe've fixed the wiki account creation process, BTW
dwdOK, cool. We'll try this and see how it works out.
dwdI think that puts us onto AOB?
SamWhitedThere is at least one outstanding vote on a previous item by someone who is no longer on the council. Do they still have an opportunity to vote, or do we re-vote?
SamWhited(vote by Tobias on moving 0387 to Draft)
dwdI believe we have traditionally revoted on pending decisions by a previous Council.
KevThat's certainly required on an open LC or whatever.
SamWhitedSounds good; I'll move it back to TODO.
dwdWe'll also need to find a few minute-taker volunteers - I'll put out a call for volunteers on the members@ list unless anyone objects.
SamWhitedUnless jonasw is still willing?
dwdSamWhited, Even if. He's great, but I imagine he'd like some help.
dwdAnyone have anything else?
KevI still have a preference for the chair writing minutes because I think it avoids confusion, but ... yeah.
KevNo AOB here.
dwdI see none.
Ge0rGIt would be good to ask the minute taker to add the reason for -1 votes into the minutes. That's something I missed the one time I did them.
dwdSo our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.
SamWhitedThat sounds like a lot of work; minutes should be short and easy to get a quick overview of what happened. If people want more context, we have logs.</opinion>
danieldo we? :-)
KevGe0rG: Policy in the past has been that anyone vetoing had to mail standards@ with justification for the veto, and what is needed to remove it.
Ge0rGdwd: 2017-11-19 is in the past. I'm sure you mean 2017-11-29.
KevAnd I strongly encourage us to continue that.
dwdGe0rG, Yes, I did, and mis-typed, thanks.
Ge0rGKev: ah, well.
danieloh logs are working again
SamWhitedThat sounds sensible; I don't think we did that last time. I will start doing that if a veto is used.
dwdKev, Yeah, I think that's a sensible policy.
KevVetos should be a rarely-used thing, really.
KevAt least for accepting to Experimental.
dwdIte, Meeting Est.
Link Mauve“16:51:26 dwd> So our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.”, technically, 1600 GMT.
dwd(But do feel free to continue chatting).
dwdLink Mauve, I'm giving UTC times to avoid confusion. When we shift relative to UTC, I'll continue to do so even if the meeting is pegged against EU Local.
dwdKev, I've actually found an external person taking the minutes interesting because of what they feel the need to clarify within the meeting.
Ge0rGwhen will be the next change in EU local time change?
Link MauveI will also try to be there for minutes.
SamWhitedLink Mauve: Thanks! It'll be good to still have you around
dwdKev, Which suggests that the logs aren't always enough.
Ge0rGI like the idea of an external minute taker as well.
dwdLink Mauve, That would be hugely appreciated.
Kevdwd: There's merit in that. I just think the Chair remembering they have to write minutes helps ensure things run to plan. YMMV.
dwdKev, Yes, that's true.
Link MauveSamWhited, of course I will, I’m still as interested as before in council matters. :)
KevIf the Chair can't write minutes from the logs, that means stuff wasn't clear during the meeting, and the Chair should have sorted it out :)
Ge0rGWill the next meeting cover all the pending votes, like ODR?
SamWhitedThat's why I like to take logs live; if I do it after the fact I only find out that something needed clarification after everyone left.
KevI used to mentally write the notes during meetings, but often didn't bother actually typing them until after.
KevUnlike when I used to chair meetings at work, many years ago, and would write the minutes (complete with who said what) before the meeting.
SamWhitedYou must be the best boss.
SamWhited(our meetings always end up being a bit unfocused; wish we had minutes before hand)
KevI wasn't anyone's boss back then. Just that the meetings were hugely predictable.
KevI used to print out the minutes, take them in with me, and just annotate wherever we deviated.
Ge0rGKev: did you always print out the same base meeting minutes document, or did you really prepare each time?