XMPP Council - 2017-11-22

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  66. dwd Kev, In your iteam capacity, can you do the traditional shuffling of affiliations in this room, please?
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  71. Kev I believe that's now done.
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  73. Link Mauve Thanks. :)
  74. dwd Kev, Thanks.
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  79. Kev I think it's time
  80. Ge0rG Indeed. My WiFi is good right now.
  81. Ge0rG 300ms RTT and less than 40% packet loss.
  82. Kev Who's here?
  83. daniel here
  84. Kev daniel, dwd, SamWhited?
  85. dwd It is time.
  86. dwd But of course I'd failed to set a reminder for this time. :-)
  87. SamWhited I am here.
  88. dwd That's everyone, then.
  89. Kev So, selecting a chair
  90. Kev I'm going to tell Dave to volunteer.
  91. Kev :p
  92. Kev Anyone else want to volunteer?
  93. dwd I'm happy to volunteer.
  94. SamWhited I voluntell Dave as well.
  95. Kev Doesn't sound like anyone else volunteering, so:
  96. Kev 1) Selecting a new chair. Votes for Dave
  97. Kev +1
  98. daniel +1
  99. dwd +1
  100. SamWhited +1
  101. Ge0rG +1
  102. Kev Congratulations to Dave.
  103. dwd Well, thanks for the honour.
  104. Kev All yours :p
  105. dwd So, my suggested agenda was simply:
  106. dwd * Select a Chair * Agree a day and time for meetings * Agree about agenda mechanics (like if we're using Trello, when the deadline for items to be added is, etc).
  107. dwd We've done the first, so we can move onto the second.
  108. dwd When's a good time for everyone? I imagine that the overlap between Ge0rG / daniel and SamWhited is the deciding factor.
  109. dwd It doesn't have to be Wednesdays either, of course.
  110. Kev My preference would be Wednesdays at 16:00 UK time.
  111. Ge0rG 1600-1700 UTC is good for me, DST-anchored in whatever local timezone
  112. SamWhited This is a good time for me, although I will be pulled into a meeting in ~20 minutes (but it's normally a short one)
  113. Kev And that we explicitly go back to DST-anchoring on the UK.
  114. dwd SamWhited, Does a half-hour earlier work for you, or would you prefer the *:30?
  115. SamWhited A half hour earlier would make it less likely that I get pulled away if that works for everyone else
  116. dwd FWIW, I prefer local-time anchoring, but I'm happy to be flexible during the US/EU change overlap.
  117. SamWhited So 1600 UK time?
  118. dwd I think that's the proposal.
  119. dwd Votes?
  120. SamWhited +1
  121. Ge0rG +1
  122. daniel +1
  123. dwd +1
  124. Kev +1
  125. dwd Carried.
  126. dwd So, final item - mechanics. I'm fine with Trello personally, but I'd like to "fix" and publish an agenda about 24 hours before the meeting.
  127. dwd Does that work for people, or does anyone have any suggestions?
  128. Kev I'm in favour of publishing. I don't have huge feelings about fixing, but do note that we used to have lots of last-minute submission of protoXEPs so they could be voted on in Council. Which may or may not be a factor.
  129. Kev So I'm happy to just go along with Chair on this.
  130. daniel I'm 'OK' with trello but I feel like last year we didn't actually use trello to its potential and just any text editor thingy would have been able to do the same job
  131. SamWhited Let's just add to the Trello TODO column and let the chair decide where to stop (depending on how long the meeting is going, whether it existed 24 hours before hand, etc.)
  132. daniel What im trying to say is that if we move that to the wiki or something we don't require people to create and account with trello
  133. SamWhited Just on the wiki
  134. SamWhited Which is generally harder to get an account for
  135. dwd Kev, Do you still have agendabot somewhere?
  136. Kev Well, Trello's just for the chair really, Dave gets to then transfer that to agendums.
  137. Kev I don't, but I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to write a new one if we particularly wanted.
  138. dwd Well, we'll go with Trello, but I'm absolutely fine with adding things on myself if people mail them to me or whatever.
  139. dwd And I'll add a column for "Next meeting agenda", and send the result to the list before the meeting.
  140. dwd Sound good?
  141. Ge0rG We've fixed the wiki account creation process, BTW
  142. Kev WFM
  143. SamWhited Sounds good
  144. dwd OK, cool. We'll try this and see how it works out.
  145. Ge0rG +1
  146. dwd I think that puts us onto AOB?
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  148. SamWhited There is at least one outstanding vote on a previous item by someone who is no longer on the council. Do they still have an opportunity to vote, or do we re-vote?
  149. SamWhited (vote by Tobias on moving 0387 to Draft)
  150. dwd I believe we have traditionally revoted on pending decisions by a previous Council.
  151. Kev That's certainly required on an open LC or whatever.
  152. SamWhited Sounds good; I'll move it back to TODO.
  153. dwd We'll also need to find a few minute-taker volunteers - I'll put out a call for volunteers on the members@ list unless anyone objects.
  154. SamWhited Unless jonasw is still willing?
  155. dwd SamWhited, Even if. He's great, but I imagine he'd like some help.
  156. SamWhited *nods*
  157. dwd Anyone have anything else?
  158. Kev I still have a preference for the chair writing minutes because I think it avoids confusion, but ... yeah.
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  160. Kev No AOB here.
  161. dwd I see none.
  162. Ge0rG It would be good to ask the minute taker to add the reason for -1 votes into the minutes. That's something I missed the one time I did them.
  163. dwd So our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.
  164. SamWhited That sounds like a lot of work; minutes should be short and easy to get a quick overview of what happened. If people want more context, we have logs.</opinion>
  165. daniel do we? :-)
  166. Kev Ge0rG: Policy in the past has been that anyone vetoing had to mail standards@ with justification for the veto, and what is needed to remove it.
  167. Ge0rG dwd: 2017-11-19 is in the past. I'm sure you mean 2017-11-29.
  168. Kev And I strongly encourage us to continue that.
  169. dwd Ge0rG, Yes, I did, and mis-typed, thanks.
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  171. Ge0rG Kev: ah, well.
  172. daniel oh logs are working again
  173. SamWhited That sounds sensible; I don't think we did that last time. I will start doing that if a veto is used.
  174. dwd Kev, Yeah, I think that's a sensible policy.
  175. Kev Vetos should be a rarely-used thing, really.
  176. Kev At least for accepting to Experimental.
  177. dwd Ite, Meeting Est.
  178. Link Mauve “16:51:26 dwd> So our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.”, technically, 1600 GMT.
  179. dwd (But do feel free to continue chatting).
  180. SamWhited Thanks all!
  181. Kev Thanks all.
  182. dwd Link Mauve, I'm giving UTC times to avoid confusion. When we shift relative to UTC, I'll continue to do so even if the meeting is pegged against EU Local.
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  184. dwd Kev, I've actually found an external person taking the minutes interesting because of what they feel the need to clarify within the meeting.
  185. Ge0rG when will be the next change in EU local time change?
  186. Link Mauve I will also try to be there for minutes.
  187. SamWhited Link Mauve: Thanks! It'll be good to still have you around
  188. dwd Kev, Which suggests that the logs aren't always enough.
  189. Ge0rG I like the idea of an external minute taker as well.
  190. dwd Link Mauve, That would be hugely appreciated.
  191. Kev dwd: There's merit in that. I just think the Chair remembering they have to write minutes helps ensure things run to plan. YMMV.
  192. dwd Kev, Yes, that's true.
  193. Link Mauve SamWhited, of course I will, I’m still as interested as before in council matters. :)
  194. Kev If the Chair can't write minutes from the logs, that means stuff wasn't clear during the meeting, and the Chair should have sorted it out :)
  195. Ge0rG Will the next meeting cover all the pending votes, like ODR?
  196. SamWhited That's why I like to take logs live; if I do it after the fact I only find out that something needed clarification after everyone left.
  197. Kev I used to mentally write the notes during meetings, but often didn't bother actually typing them until after.
  198. Kev Unlike when I used to chair meetings at work, many years ago, and would write the minutes (complete with who said what) before the meeting.
  199. SamWhited You must be the best boss.
  200. SamWhited (our meetings always end up being a bit unfocused; wish we had minutes before hand)
  201. Kev I wasn't anyone's boss back then. Just that the meetings were hugely predictable.
  202. Kev I used to print out the minutes, take them in with me, and just annotate wherever we deviated.
  203. Ge0rG Kev: did you always print out the same base meeting minutes document, or did you really prepare each time?
  204. Kev I really prepared each item.
  205. Kev *time
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