XMPP Council - 2017-11-22

  1. vanitasvitae has left

  2. pep. has joined

  3. pep. has left

  4. Zash has left

  5. daniel has left

  6. daniel has joined

  7. ralphm has left

  8. daniel has left

  9. Syndace has left

  10. Syndace has joined

  11. Tobias has joined

  12. SamWhited has left

  13. Tobias has left

  14. Tobias has joined

  15. ralphm has left

  16. daniel has joined

  17. jcbrand has joined

  18. Kev has left

  19. daniel has left

  20. daniel has joined

  21. daniel has left

  22. daniel has joined

  23. daniel has left

  24. daniel has joined

  25. Syndace has left

  26. Syndace has joined

  27. jcbrand has left

  28. jcbrand has joined

  29. daniel has left

  30. daniel has left

  31. daniel has left

  32. daniel has left

  33. daniel has left

  34. daniel has left

  35. daniel has left

  36. daniel has left

  37. genofire has joined

  38. Holger has left

  39. Holger has joined

  40. Holger has left

  41. Holger has joined

  42. daniel has left

  43. daniel has left

  44. jere has joined

  45. jere has left

  46. jere has joined

  47. daniel has left

  48. Kev has left

  49. Kev has joined

  50. daniel has left

  51. daniel has joined

  52. jere has left

  53. jere has joined

  54. ralphm has left

  55. dwd has left

  56. dwd has joined

  57. jere has left

  58. jere has joined

  59. dwd has left

  60. dwd has joined

  61. ralphm has left

  62. Zash has left

  63. Zash has joined

  64. Link Mauve has joined

  65. daniel has left

  66. dwd

    Kev, In your iteam capacity, can you do the traditional shuffling of affiliations in this room, please?

  67. vanitasvitae has left

  68. daniel has left

  69. Ge0rG has joined

  70. Kev2 has joined

  71. Kev

    I believe that's now done.

  72. Kev2 has left

  73. Link Mauve

    Thanks. :)

  74. dwd

    Kev, Thanks.

  75. daniel has left

  76. moparisthebest has joined

  77. daniel has left

  78. jcbrand has left

  79. Kev

    I think it's time

  80. Ge0rG

    Indeed. My WiFi is good right now.

  81. Ge0rG

    300ms RTT and less than 40% packet loss.

  82. Kev

    Who's here?

  83. daniel


  84. Kev

    daniel, dwd, SamWhited?

  85. dwd

    It is time.

  86. dwd

    But of course I'd failed to set a reminder for this time. :-)

  87. SamWhited

    I am here.

  88. dwd

    That's everyone, then.

  89. Kev

    So, selecting a chair

  90. Kev

    I'm going to tell Dave to volunteer.

  91. Kev


  92. Kev

    Anyone else want to volunteer?

  93. dwd

    I'm happy to volunteer.

  94. SamWhited

    I voluntell Dave as well.

  95. Kev

    Doesn't sound like anyone else volunteering, so:

  96. Kev

    1) Selecting a new chair. Votes for Dave

  97. Kev


  98. daniel


  99. dwd


  100. SamWhited


  101. Ge0rG


  102. Kev

    Congratulations to Dave.

  103. dwd

    Well, thanks for the honour.

  104. Kev

    All yours :p

  105. dwd

    So, my suggested agenda was simply:

  106. dwd

    * Select a Chair * Agree a day and time for meetings * Agree about agenda mechanics (like if we're using Trello, when the deadline for items to be added is, etc).

  107. dwd

    We've done the first, so we can move onto the second.

  108. dwd

    When's a good time for everyone? I imagine that the overlap between Ge0rG / daniel and SamWhited is the deciding factor.

  109. dwd

    It doesn't have to be Wednesdays either, of course.

  110. Kev

    My preference would be Wednesdays at 16:00 UK time.

  111. Ge0rG

    1600-1700 UTC is good for me, DST-anchored in whatever local timezone

  112. SamWhited

    This is a good time for me, although I will be pulled into a meeting in ~20 minutes (but it's normally a short one)

  113. Kev

    And that we explicitly go back to DST-anchoring on the UK.

  114. dwd

    SamWhited, Does a half-hour earlier work for you, or would you prefer the *:30?

  115. SamWhited

    A half hour earlier would make it less likely that I get pulled away if that works for everyone else

  116. dwd

    FWIW, I prefer local-time anchoring, but I'm happy to be flexible during the US/EU change overlap.

  117. SamWhited

    So 1600 UK time?

  118. dwd

    I think that's the proposal.

  119. dwd


  120. SamWhited


  121. Ge0rG


  122. daniel


  123. dwd


  124. Kev


  125. dwd


  126. dwd

    So, final item - mechanics. I'm fine with Trello personally, but I'd like to "fix" and publish an agenda about 24 hours before the meeting.

  127. dwd

    Does that work for people, or does anyone have any suggestions?

  128. Kev

    I'm in favour of publishing. I don't have huge feelings about fixing, but do note that we used to have lots of last-minute submission of protoXEPs so they could be voted on in Council. Which may or may not be a factor.

  129. Kev

    So I'm happy to just go along with Chair on this.

  130. daniel

    I'm 'OK' with trello but I feel like last year we didn't actually use trello to its potential and just any text editor thingy would have been able to do the same job

  131. SamWhited

    Let's just add to the Trello TODO column and let the chair decide where to stop (depending on how long the meeting is going, whether it existed 24 hours before hand, etc.)

  132. daniel

    What im trying to say is that if we move that to the wiki or something we don't require people to create and account with trello

  133. SamWhited

    Just on the wiki

  134. SamWhited

    Which is generally harder to get an account for

  135. dwd

    Kev, Do you still have agendabot somewhere?

  136. Kev

    Well, Trello's just for the chair really, Dave gets to then transfer that to agendums.

  137. Kev

    I don't, but I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to write a new one if we particularly wanted.

  138. dwd

    Well, we'll go with Trello, but I'm absolutely fine with adding things on myself if people mail them to me or whatever.

  139. dwd

    And I'll add a column for "Next meeting agenda", and send the result to the list before the meeting.

  140. dwd

    Sound good?

  141. Ge0rG

    We've fixed the wiki account creation process, BTW

  142. Kev


  143. SamWhited

    Sounds good

  144. dwd

    OK, cool. We'll try this and see how it works out.

  145. Ge0rG


  146. dwd

    I think that puts us onto AOB?

  147. vanitasvitae has left

  148. SamWhited

    There is at least one outstanding vote on a previous item by someone who is no longer on the council. Do they still have an opportunity to vote, or do we re-vote?

  149. SamWhited

    (vote by Tobias on moving 0387 to Draft)

  150. dwd

    I believe we have traditionally revoted on pending decisions by a previous Council.

  151. Kev

    That's certainly required on an open LC or whatever.

  152. SamWhited

    Sounds good; I'll move it back to TODO.

  153. dwd

    We'll also need to find a few minute-taker volunteers - I'll put out a call for volunteers on the members@ list unless anyone objects.

  154. SamWhited

    Unless jonasw is still willing?

  155. dwd

    SamWhited, Even if. He's great, but I imagine he'd like some help.

  156. SamWhited


  157. dwd

    Anyone have anything else?

  158. Kev

    I still have a preference for the chair writing minutes because I think it avoids confusion, but ... yeah.

  159. daniel has left

  160. Kev

    No AOB here.

  161. dwd

    I see none.

  162. Ge0rG

    It would be good to ask the minute taker to add the reason for -1 votes into the minutes. That's something I missed the one time I did them.

  163. dwd

    So our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.

  164. SamWhited

    That sounds like a lot of work; minutes should be short and easy to get a quick overview of what happened. If people want more context, we have logs.</opinion>

  165. daniel

    do we? :-)

  166. Kev

    Ge0rG: Policy in the past has been that anyone vetoing had to mail standards@ with justification for the veto, and what is needed to remove it.

  167. Ge0rG

    dwd: 2017-11-19 is in the past. I'm sure you mean 2017-11-29.

  168. Kev

    And I strongly encourage us to continue that.

  169. dwd

    Ge0rG, Yes, I did, and mis-typed, thanks.

  170. jere has joined

  171. Ge0rG

    Kev: ah, well.

  172. daniel

    oh logs are working again

  173. SamWhited

    That sounds sensible; I don't think we did that last time. I will start doing that if a veto is used.

  174. dwd

    Kev, Yeah, I think that's a sensible policy.

  175. Kev

    Vetos should be a rarely-used thing, really.

  176. Kev

    At least for accepting to Experimental.

  177. dwd

    Ite, Meeting Est.

  178. Link Mauve

    ā€œ16:51:26 dwd> So our next meeting will be 1600 UTC on 2017-11-19.ā€, technically, 1600 GMT.

  179. dwd

    (But do feel free to continue chatting).

  180. SamWhited

    Thanks all!

  181. Kev

    Thanks all.

  182. dwd

    Link Mauve, I'm giving UTC times to avoid confusion. When we shift relative to UTC, I'll continue to do so even if the meeting is pegged against EU Local.

  183. daniel has left

  184. dwd

    Kev, I've actually found an external person taking the minutes interesting because of what they feel the need to clarify within the meeting.

  185. Ge0rG

    when will be the next change in EU local time change?

  186. Link Mauve

    I will also try to be there for minutes.

  187. SamWhited

    Link Mauve: Thanks! It'll be good to still have you around

  188. dwd

    Kev, Which suggests that the logs aren't always enough.

  189. Ge0rG

    I like the idea of an external minute taker as well.

  190. dwd

    Link Mauve, That would be hugely appreciated.

  191. Kev

    dwd: There's merit in that. I just think the Chair remembering they have to write minutes helps ensure things run to plan. YMMV.

  192. dwd

    Kev, Yes, that's true.

  193. Link Mauve

    SamWhited, of course I will, Iā€™m still as interested as before in council matters. :)

  194. Kev

    If the Chair can't write minutes from the logs, that means stuff wasn't clear during the meeting, and the Chair should have sorted it out :)

  195. Ge0rG

    Will the next meeting cover all the pending votes, like ODR?

  196. SamWhited

    That's why I like to take logs live; if I do it after the fact I only find out that something needed clarification after everyone left.

  197. Kev

    I used to mentally write the notes during meetings, but often didn't bother actually typing them until after.

  198. Kev

    Unlike when I used to chair meetings at work, many years ago, and would write the minutes (complete with who said what) before the meeting.

  199. SamWhited

    You must be the best boss.

  200. SamWhited

    (our meetings always end up being a bit unfocused; wish we had minutes before hand)

  201. Kev

    I wasn't anyone's boss back then. Just that the meetings were hugely predictable.

  202. Kev

    I used to print out the minutes, take them in with me, and just annotate wherever we deviated.

  203. Ge0rG

    Kev: did you always print out the same base meeting minutes document, or did you really prepare each time?

  204. Kev

    I really prepared each item.

  205. Kev


  206. daniel has left

  207. daniel has left

  208. daniel has joined

  209. daniel has left

  210. daniel has joined

  211. Tobias has joined

  212. daniel has left

  213. daniel has joined

  214. vanitasvitae has left

  215. daniel has left

  216. daniel has joined

  217. daniel has left

  218. daniel has joined

  219. daniel has left

  220. daniel has joined

  221. ralphm has left

  222. Ge0rG has left

  223. ralphm has left

  224. Kev has left

  225. Kev has joined

  226. Zash has left

  227. Zash has left

  228. Zash has joined

  229. ralphm has left

  230. Kev has left

  231. Kev has left

  232. Kev has left

  233. Kev has left

  234. Kev has left

  235. Kev has left

  236. daniel has left

  237. Kev has left

  238. Kev has left

  239. Kev has left

  240. Kev has left

  241. Kev has left

  242. Kev has left

  243. Kev has left

  244. Kev has left

  245. Kev has left

  246. daniel has left

  247. Kev has left

  248. Kev has left

  249. Kev has left

  250. Kev has left

  251. daniel has left

  252. Kev has left

  253. Kev has left

  254. Kev has left

  255. daniel has left

  256. daniel has joined

  257. daniel has left

  258. daniel has joined

  259. Kev has left

  260. Kev has left

  261. Kev has left

  262. Kev has left

  263. Kev has left

  264. Kev has left

  265. Kev has left

  266. Kev has left

  267. Kev has left

  268. Kev has left

  269. Kev has left

  270. daniel has left

  271. daniel has joined

  272. Kev has left

  273. Kev has left

  274. Kev has left

  275. Kev has left

  276. Kev has left

  277. ralphm has left

  278. Kev has left

  279. Kev has left

  280. Kev has left

  281. Kev has left

  282. Tobias has joined

  283. Kev has left

  284. Kev has left

  285. daniel has left

  286. daniel has joined

  287. daniel has left

  288. daniel has joined

  289. ralphm has joined

  290. daniel has left

  291. daniel has joined

  292. Syndace has left

  293. Syndace has joined

  294. daniel has left

  295. daniel has joined

  296. daniel has left

  297. daniel has joined

  298. daniel has left

  299. daniel has joined

  300. daniel has left

  301. daniel has joined

  302. Kev has left

  303. Kev has joined

  304. SamWhited has left

  305. daniel has left

  306. daniel has joined

  307. Kev has left

  308. daniel has left

  309. Kev has left

  310. daniel has joined

  311. Kev has left

  312. Kev has left

  313. Kev has left

  314. Kev has left

  315. Kev has left

  316. Kev has left

  317. Kev has left

  318. Kev has left

  319. Kev has left

  320. Kev has left

  321. Kev has left

  322. Kev has left

  323. daniel has left

  324. daniel has joined

  325. ralphm has left

  326. daniel has left

  327. daniel has joined

  328. Zash has left

  329. daniel has left

  330. daniel has joined

  331. ralphm has joined

  332. daniel has left

  333. daniel has joined

  334. Zash has left

  335. jere has left

  336. jere has joined

  337. Zash has left

  338. pep. has left