XMPP Council - 2018-01-09

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14:10:37 Dave jonasw, SamWhited - Just running through the Council Agenda for tomorrow - is it only my two ProtoXEPs come in since last time?
14:12:38 SamWhited Nothing new from me, just a few old things that have been festering
14:17:04 daniel Dave: there is the Avatar conversion
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14:28:19 jonasw Dave, three, what daniel said
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15:09:36 Dave The state of isr-sasl2 seems confused - Council voted, that vote has presumably timed out, but no votes at all are recorded in Trello?
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15:19:11 Kev It wasn't clear to me which of the several versions of ISR we were voting on from the minutes. So I sent out a vote based on what I thought we were voting on, and a -1 otherwise.
15:19:20 Dave Looks like Daniel, Kev and I all voted for.
15:19:52 Dave Kev, I think his latest advertised is what's in the inbox. I was assuming we were voting for the isr-sasl2.html in the inbox anyway.
15:20:08 Ge0rG I think the general idea is to accept something that looks generally implementable and to finish the spec afterwards?
15:20:09 Kev Ah, ok. I thought his latest wasn't in the inbox yet.
15:20:29 Kev Ge0rG: As long as it doesn't look harmfully the wrong approach for some reason, I accept generally, yes.
15:20:42 Ge0rG So the exact version in the inbox doesn't matter too much?
15:20:50 Kev There is an argument to be made for that, yes.
15:20:51 Dave Ge0rG, Yes, although ironically I thought I'd implement this afternoon and found I can't because he's tied it into the SASL mechanism, which I hadn't really appreciated.
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15:27:33 Ge0rG Dave: I'd really love to scale back the SASL thing and just let ISR be an additional token that immediately gives you your old 0198 session
15:28:27 Dave Ge0rG, Why? The immediacy can be achieved simply enough without tying it into a SASL mechanism, and gives us flexibility over authentication.
15:28:58 Kev And I'm interested in using 'instant re-auth with this key' without involving 198, FWIW.
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15:29:19 Kev Because I think fast resync is a worthwhile problem to solve, without 198.
15:29:32 Dave Kev, CLIENT-KEY can do that, longer-term. But it does mandate an atomic counter at both ends, which might be painful in a cluster.
15:30:00 Dave Kev, Flow's HT-* mechanism family should manage it, but it's tied into 198 quite heavily.
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15:33:34 Ge0rG Kev: I'd say that a instant re-auth that's tied to a short-lived 0198 after-session is technically not a new authentication, as opposed to something like CLIENT-KEY
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15:48:59 Dave Ge0rG, Well, you connect, do *magic* and then the server knows who you are.
15:49:18 Dave Ge0rG, Which makes me suspect that *magic* includes an authentication.
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18:47:53 Ge0rG Dave: so I have a TCP session with TLS on top of it that I didn't send any data over for half an hour, and then I send another packet, and the other side knows it's from me - is that authentication as well?
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18:49:11 Ge0rG How often do I need to enter an OTP code?
18:49:54 Zash With every TCP segment!
18:50:18 Ge0rG Zash: TCP is a stream of bytes. So I think you mean with every byte.
18:50:24 Ge0rG But then again, there is TLS overhead.
18:50:57 Zash TLS uses blocks somewhat larger than single bytes IIRC
18:51:41 Ge0rG Now you made me wonder how TLS operates. Does it fill up its data up to the MSS? Is it playing weird games with Nagle?
18:51:52 Ge0rG Do I really want to know?
18:51:54 Zash You probably don't want to know.
18:52:32 Ge0rG So back to my original question. When does it stop to be the continuation of an ongoing authenticated session and begins to be a new authentication?
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18:53:51 Ge0rG Does it need to run in the same TLS session? Same TCP session? Same pair of entities? What if I export the TLS state from one entity to another?
18:53:52 Zash There's some framing, padding to the cipher block size and a MAC.
18:55:01 Ge0rG Zash: that totally doesn't answer my question.
18:55:17 Zash I was just telling you what you don't wanna know.
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