XMPP Council - 2018-01-09

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  123. Dave jonasw, SamWhited - Just running through the Council Agenda for tomorrow - is it only my two ProtoXEPs come in since last time?
  124. SamWhited Nothing new from me, just a few old things that have been festering
  125. daniel Dave: there is the Avatar conversion
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  128. jonasw Dave, three, what daniel said
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  139. Dave The state of isr-sasl2 seems confused - Council voted, that vote has presumably timed out, but no votes at all are recorded in Trello?
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  141. Kev It wasn't clear to me which of the several versions of ISR we were voting on from the minutes. So I sent out a vote based on what I thought we were voting on, and a -1 otherwise.
  142. Dave Looks like Daniel, Kev and I all voted for.
  143. Dave Kev, I think his latest advertised is what's in the inbox. I was assuming we were voting for the isr-sasl2.html in the inbox anyway.
  144. Ge0rG I think the general idea is to accept something that looks generally implementable and to finish the spec afterwards?
  145. Kev Ah, ok. I thought his latest wasn't in the inbox yet.
  146. Kev Ge0rG: As long as it doesn't look harmfully the wrong approach for some reason, I accept generally, yes.
  147. Ge0rG So the exact version in the inbox doesn't matter too much?
  148. Kev There is an argument to be made for that, yes.
  149. Dave Ge0rG, Yes, although ironically I thought I'd implement this afternoon and found I can't because he's tied it into the SASL mechanism, which I hadn't really appreciated.
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  152. Ge0rG Dave: I'd really love to scale back the SASL thing and just let ISR be an additional token that immediately gives you your old 0198 session
  153. Dave Ge0rG, Why? The immediacy can be achieved simply enough without tying it into a SASL mechanism, and gives us flexibility over authentication.
  154. Kev And I'm interested in using 'instant re-auth with this key' without involving 198, FWIW.
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  156. Kev Because I think fast resync is a worthwhile problem to solve, without 198.
  157. Dave Kev, CLIENT-KEY can do that, longer-term. But it does mandate an atomic counter at both ends, which might be painful in a cluster.
  158. Dave Kev, Flow's HT-* mechanism family should manage it, but it's tied into 198 quite heavily.
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  160. Ge0rG Kev: I'd say that a instant re-auth that's tied to a short-lived 0198 after-session is technically not a new authentication, as opposed to something like CLIENT-KEY
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  163. Dave Ge0rG, Well, you connect, do *magic* and then the server knows who you are.
  164. Dave Ge0rG, Which makes me suspect that *magic* includes an authentication.
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  226. Ge0rG Dave: so I have a TCP session with TLS on top of it that I didn't send any data over for half an hour, and then I send another packet, and the other side knows it's from me - is that authentication as well?
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  228. Ge0rG How often do I need to enter an OTP code?
  229. Zash With every TCP segment!
  230. Ge0rG Zash: TCP is a stream of bytes. So I think you mean with every byte.
  231. Ge0rG But then again, there is TLS overhead.
  232. Zash TLS uses blocks somewhat larger than single bytes IIRC
  233. Ge0rG Now you made me wonder how TLS operates. Does it fill up its data up to the MSS? Is it playing weird games with Nagle?
  234. Ge0rG Do I really want to know?
  235. Zash You probably don't want to know.
  236. Ge0rG So back to my original question. When does it stop to be the continuation of an ongoing authenticated session and begins to be a new authentication?
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  238. Ge0rG Does it need to run in the same TLS session? Same TCP session? Same pair of entities? What if I export the TLS state from one entity to another?
  239. Zash There's some framing, padding to the cipher block size and a MAC.
  240. Ge0rG Zash: that totally doesn't answer my question.
  241. Zash I was just telling you what you don't wanna know.
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