XMPP Council - 2018-01-17

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  169. Ge0rG So I've arrived in time. Great.
  170. Ge0rG So, it's time. In theory.
  171. Dave It is.
  172. Ge0rG Do we have an agenda?
  173. Dave I haven't prepared one - my fault entirely.
  174. Ge0rG Dave: maybe we can reuse the one from the week before, and just replace some XEP numbers?
  175. Ge0rG I've had a great holiday season, thanks!
  176. Dave Heh.
  177. Dave daniel, SamWhited - about?
  178. SamWhited *nods*
  179. daniel yes
  180. Dave Excellent. Kev sent apologies last week as I recall.
  181. Ge0rG I'm interested in getting the user-invite protoXEP voted on
  182. Ge0rG has left
  183. Ge0rG Actually I'd like to get any kind of feedback.
  184. Dave Ge0rG, Yes. That's not yet on Trello for some reason, but was announced last week, so is up for a vote.
  185. Dave Do we have a minute-taker?
  186. Dave Going to take that as a "Dave, you can do it"
  187. Dave So:
  188. Dave 1) Roll Call (we're all present aside from Kev)
  189. Dave 2) Agenda bashing
  190. Dave I think we have the user-invite ProtoXEP, and a couple of other changes to XEPs.
  191. Dave Let's just roll through them.
  192. Dave 3) https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/user-invite.html
  193. Ge0rG Obviously +1
  194. SamWhited On list
  195. Ge0rG It's not perfect and I'm not 100% happy with the IBR extension format. But it's a pragmatic way forward
  196. daniel on list
  197. Dave I *think* IBR supports forms, in principle. Doesn't it?
  198. Zash Yes
  199. Dave So this should be using those. I'm assuming we can change that after we give it a number though.
  200. Ge0rG Dave: we don't want to use them because forms are a reaction to the inital IBR request from the client, not something initiated by the client
  201. Dave So despite that I'll +1.
  202. Dave Ge0rG, OK. But I suppose my point is that this is a problem we want to solve, and it'll be roughly this shape.
  203. Ge0rG Dave: yes.
  204. Dave SamWhited, ?
  205. Dave Oh, wait, I see you already said on-list.
  206. Dave 4) I see XEP-0286 is on the agenda, this is pending a Last Call? Or has had a Last Call? Or what?
  207. SamWhited It has had a last call and I have been trying to get the council to vote on it for quite some time
  208. Dave OK, looks like Kev added it and I've been skipping it. Right, vote to advance, then?
  209. SamWhited +1
  210. Ge0rG It was last-called in November, and there was not much feedback. +1 from me
  211. daniel +1
  212. Dave +1.
  213. Dave So just waiting for Kev on list.
  214. Ge0rG Is there a network outage or are we literally waiting for Kev on list? :D
  215. Dave 5) I have "Approve text change suggested last year to 48".
  216. Dave That's https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554
  217. Dave Ge0rG, I'm frantically looking things up. :-)
  218. Ge0rG Dave: ah, nevermind then :
  219. Ge0rG :)
  220. daniel +1
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  222. Dave +1 on this change.
  223. Ge0rG +1
  224. SamWhited on list; I forgot about this one and am no longer sure how I feel about it.
  225. Ge0rG it's a pretty minor wording change, documenting the status quo
  226. Dave OK.
  227. Dave 6) XEP-0060 changes.
  228. Dave So the first of these, the publish-options change[s] that Daniel has proposed, we went back to the list and got nothing. So I think at this point we just take the view of the Council.
  229. Dave My impression is that we're generally agreed on the third option?
  230. SamWhited Define 'third option'?
  231. Dave https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554 <-- this one.
  232. daniel https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/557
  233. Dave Argh. copy/paste error.
  234. Dave 557 indeed.
  235. Ge0rG +1 to #557, as apparently nobody in the wider community cares enough or understands the problem.
  236. daniel rendered here: https://gultsch.de/files/xep-0060.html
  237. Ge0rG Sorry for delaying the whole thing for a week, but now I have a less-worse feeling about it.
  238. SamWhited Ah yes, thanks. Third in terms of GitHub ID, gotcha.
  239. daniel +1
  240. SamWhited +1
  241. Ge0rG So I suppose this implies -1 to #555 and #556?
  242. daniel +1 to #557
  243. daniel Ge0rG, those are mutually exclusive
  244. Ge0rG daniel: will you pull them back or do we need to vote them into oblivion?
  245. daniel i would like to revote on 555 in case 557 doesn't get approved
  246. Dave I'm happy with #557 too. I feel more comfortable implementing preconditions than I do overrides.
  247. daniel so i would rather you not -1 #555 before 557 gets approved
  248. daniel but yes
  249. Ge0rG Great!
  250. Dave 7) XEP-0387
  251. Dave Given that Kev has pending comments and a PR here, I don't know whether a vote is worthwhile, but I'm happy to take one.
  252. Dave So I suppose I'm asking for a vote on advancement to Draft *without* applying Kev's outstanding PR (and therefore without addressing his comments).
  253. daniel +1
  254. SamWhited +1 (with the note that I will address Kev's concerns immediately in the 2019 ones which I will start as soon as we finally do something with the 2018 ones)
  255. Ge0rG +1 either with or without #569 applied. I want to get this resolved ASAP.
  256. SamWhited Also with the note that these do not have to cover everything; they just have to reasonably tell clients what they need to do to implement a modern client (but do not have to cover every single thing under the sun, just offer some basic guidance which we can always improve next year)
  257. Ge0rG One day, the compliance suite will be the Gold Standard for measuring client XMPPness.
  258. Dave I'm abstaining on this one. I don't understand why you're refusing to even discuss this feedback, and I very much doubt Kev will allow it through without, but I'll leave that decision to Kev.
  259. Dave 8) Outstanding votes
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  262. Dave Ge0rG, I think you owe a vote on pep-vcard-conversion, and totp-2fa, and possibly others.
  263. jonasw Dave, did you get/process the email I sent you yesterday?
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  265. Dave daniel, You have totp-2fa and client-key outstanding.
  266. daniel ack
  267. Ge0rG Dave: I'm pretty sure I voted everything from last week some days ago
  268. Dave jonasw, Yes/no.
  269. jonasw Dave, okay
  270. Ge0rG Dave: sent to council@ on Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:48:17 +0100
  271. Dave Ge0rG, Ah, mea culpa.
  272. jonasw hm, maybe vote publicly on standards@ instead?
  273. Ge0rG Dave: no offense taken.
  274. jonasw that’s how people’ve been doing it for a while now
  275. Ge0rG I wasn't sure.
  276. Ge0rG But I can bounce that mail over to standards@
  277. Ge0rG done.
  278. Ge0rG Dave: I'm interested in your feedback on my feedback on TOTP-2FA, but that doesn't need to happen within this meeting.
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  280. Ge0rG daniel: do you want another clarifying follow-up from me on PEP Avatar to vCard conversion?
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  282. daniel Ge0rG: my understanding is that we agreed on putting sensible access control in front of vCard and leave the xep as is. If that's wrong then please do respond on list
  283. Ge0rG daniel: that makes the new xep depend on a change to a historical XEP.
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  285. Dave Sorry, my broadband just dropped. Ooops.
  286. Ge0rG Dave: are you missing any history?
  287. daniel Ge0rG: I know. I still belive that vCard deserves that. And ultimately that's the right thing to do
  288. Dave Ge0rG, Nope. And yes, I'll respond to your comments.
  289. daniel If we want to keep using vCards at all that is
  290. Dave I think we're about done here anyway, sorry for the overrun and lack of agenda this week. Normal service resumed next week.
  291. SamWhited I'm not sure we should be messing with vcard anymore, but we can probably discuss afterwards unless this is critical to someones vote and it can't be done on list?
  292. daniel And looks like kev even wants to put it in the compliance suite
  293. Dave So:
  294. Dave 9) Next Meeting
  295. Dave Same time next week?
  296. SamWhited WFM
  297. Dave Anyone missing?
  298. Ge0rG +1W WFM
  299. daniel Yes sorry. Postponing this until after the meeting
  300. daniel +1w wfm
  301. Dave 10) AOB
  302. Dave Anyone?
  303. daniel Nope
  304. Dave 11) Ite, Meeting Est
  305. Dave But feel ffree to continue chatting of course. I just don't want to minute it anymore. :-)
  306. SamWhited Thanks Dave et al.
  307. Ge0rG We can move over to xsf@ as well.
  308. SamWhited nods
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