XMPP Council - 2018-01-17

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  169. Ge0rG

    So I've arrived in time. Great.

  170. Ge0rG

    So, it's time. In theory.

  171. Dave

    It is.

  172. Ge0rG

    Do we have an agenda?

  173. Dave

    I haven't prepared one - my fault entirely.

  174. Ge0rG

    Dave: maybe we can reuse the one from the week before, and just replace some XEP numbers?

  175. Ge0rG

    I've had a great holiday season, thanks!

  176. Dave


  177. Dave

    daniel, SamWhited - about?

  178. SamWhited


  179. daniel


  180. Dave

    Excellent. Kev sent apologies last week as I recall.

  181. Ge0rG

    I'm interested in getting the user-invite protoXEP voted on

  182. Ge0rG has left

  183. Ge0rG

    Actually I'd like to get any kind of feedback.

  184. Dave

    Ge0rG, Yes. That's not yet on Trello for some reason, but was announced last week, so is up for a vote.

  185. Dave

    Do we have a minute-taker?

  186. Dave

    Going to take that as a "Dave, you can do it"

  187. Dave


  188. Dave

    1) Roll Call (we're all present aside from Kev)

  189. Dave

    2) Agenda bashing

  190. Dave

    I think we have the user-invite ProtoXEP, and a couple of other changes to XEPs.

  191. Dave

    Let's just roll through them.

  192. Dave

    3) https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/user-invite.html

  193. Ge0rG

    Obviously +1

  194. SamWhited

    On list

  195. Ge0rG

    It's not perfect and I'm not 100% happy with the IBR extension format. But it's a pragmatic way forward

  196. daniel

    on list

  197. Dave

    I *think* IBR supports forms, in principle. Doesn't it?

  198. Zash


  199. Dave

    So this should be using those. I'm assuming we can change that after we give it a number though.

  200. Ge0rG

    Dave: we don't want to use them because forms are a reaction to the inital IBR request from the client, not something initiated by the client

  201. Dave

    So despite that I'll +1.

  202. Dave

    Ge0rG, OK. But I suppose my point is that this is a problem we want to solve, and it'll be roughly this shape.

  203. Ge0rG

    Dave: yes.

  204. Dave

    SamWhited, ?

  205. Dave

    Oh, wait, I see you already said on-list.

  206. Dave

    4) I see XEP-0286 is on the agenda, this is pending a Last Call? Or has had a Last Call? Or what?

  207. SamWhited

    It has had a last call and I have been trying to get the council to vote on it for quite some time

  208. Dave

    OK, looks like Kev added it and I've been skipping it. Right, vote to advance, then?

  209. SamWhited


  210. Ge0rG

    It was last-called in November, and there was not much feedback. +1 from me

  211. daniel


  212. Dave


  213. Dave

    So just waiting for Kev on list.

  214. Ge0rG

    Is there a network outage or are we literally waiting for Kev on list? :D

  215. Dave

    5) I have "Approve text change suggested last year to 48".

  216. Dave

    That's https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554

  217. Dave

    Ge0rG, I'm frantically looking things up. :-)

  218. Ge0rG

    Dave: ah, nevermind then :

  219. Ge0rG


  220. daniel


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  222. Dave

    +1 on this change.

  223. Ge0rG


  224. SamWhited

    on list; I forgot about this one and am no longer sure how I feel about it.

  225. Ge0rG

    it's a pretty minor wording change, documenting the status quo

  226. Dave


  227. Dave

    6) XEP-0060 changes.

  228. Dave

    So the first of these, the publish-options change[s] that Daniel has proposed, we went back to the list and got nothing. So I think at this point we just take the view of the Council.

  229. Dave

    My impression is that we're generally agreed on the third option?

  230. SamWhited

    Define 'third option'?

  231. Dave

    https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554 <-- this one.

  232. daniel


  233. Dave

    Argh. copy/paste error.

  234. Dave

    557 indeed.

  235. Ge0rG

    +1 to #557, as apparently nobody in the wider community cares enough or understands the problem.

  236. daniel

    rendered here: https://gultsch.de/files/xep-0060.html

  237. Ge0rG

    Sorry for delaying the whole thing for a week, but now I have a less-worse feeling about it.

  238. SamWhited

    Ah yes, thanks. Third in terms of GitHub ID, gotcha.

  239. daniel


  240. SamWhited


  241. Ge0rG

    So I suppose this implies -1 to #555 and #556?

  242. daniel

    +1 to #557

  243. daniel

    Ge0rG, those are mutually exclusive

  244. Ge0rG

    daniel: will you pull them back or do we need to vote them into oblivion?

  245. daniel

    i would like to revote on 555 in case 557 doesn't get approved

  246. Dave

    I'm happy with #557 too. I feel more comfortable implementing preconditions than I do overrides.

  247. daniel

    so i would rather you not -1 #555 before 557 gets approved

  248. daniel

    but yes

  249. Ge0rG


  250. Dave

    7) XEP-0387

  251. Dave

    Given that Kev has pending comments and a PR here, I don't know whether a vote is worthwhile, but I'm happy to take one.

  252. Dave

    So I suppose I'm asking for a vote on advancement to Draft *without* applying Kev's outstanding PR (and therefore without addressing his comments).

  253. daniel


  254. SamWhited

    +1 (with the note that I will address Kev's concerns immediately in the 2019 ones which I will start as soon as we finally do something with the 2018 ones)

  255. Ge0rG

    +1 either with or without #569 applied. I want to get this resolved ASAP.

  256. SamWhited

    Also with the note that these do not have to cover everything; they just have to reasonably tell clients what they need to do to implement a modern client (but do not have to cover every single thing under the sun, just offer some basic guidance which we can always improve next year)

  257. Ge0rG

    One day, the compliance suite will be the Gold Standard for measuring client XMPPness.

  258. Dave

    I'm abstaining on this one. I don't understand why you're refusing to even discuss this feedback, and I very much doubt Kev will allow it through without, but I'll leave that decision to Kev.

  259. Dave

    8) Outstanding votes

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  262. Dave

    Ge0rG, I think you owe a vote on pep-vcard-conversion, and totp-2fa, and possibly others.

  263. jonasw

    Dave, did you get/process the email I sent you yesterday?

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  265. Dave

    daniel, You have totp-2fa and client-key outstanding.

  266. daniel


  267. Ge0rG

    Dave: I'm pretty sure I voted everything from last week some days ago

  268. Dave

    jonasw, Yes/no.

  269. jonasw

    Dave, okay

  270. Ge0rG

    Dave: sent to council@ on Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:48:17 +0100

  271. Dave

    Ge0rG, Ah, mea culpa.

  272. jonasw

    hm, maybe vote publicly on standards@ instead?

  273. Ge0rG

    Dave: no offense taken.

  274. jonasw

    that’s how people’ve been doing it for a while now

  275. Ge0rG

    I wasn't sure.

  276. Ge0rG

    But I can bounce that mail over to standards@

  277. Ge0rG


  278. Ge0rG

    Dave: I'm interested in your feedback on my feedback on TOTP-2FA, but that doesn't need to happen within this meeting.

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  280. Ge0rG

    daniel: do you want another clarifying follow-up from me on PEP Avatar to vCard conversion?

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  282. daniel

    Ge0rG: my understanding is that we agreed on putting sensible access control in front of vCard and leave the xep as is. If that's wrong then please do respond on list

  283. Ge0rG

    daniel: that makes the new xep depend on a change to a historical XEP.

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  285. Dave

    Sorry, my broadband just dropped. Ooops.

  286. Ge0rG

    Dave: are you missing any history?

  287. daniel

    Ge0rG: I know. I still belive that vCard deserves that. And ultimately that's the right thing to do

  288. Dave

    Ge0rG, Nope. And yes, I'll respond to your comments.

  289. daniel

    If we want to keep using vCards at all that is

  290. Dave

    I think we're about done here anyway, sorry for the overrun and lack of agenda this week. Normal service resumed next week.

  291. SamWhited

    I'm not sure we should be messing with vcard anymore, but we can probably discuss afterwards unless this is critical to someones vote and it can't be done on list?

  292. daniel

    And looks like kev even wants to put it in the compliance suite

  293. Dave


  294. Dave

    9) Next Meeting

  295. Dave

    Same time next week?

  296. SamWhited


  297. Dave

    Anyone missing?

  298. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  299. daniel

    Yes sorry. Postponing this until after the meeting

  300. daniel

    +1w wfm

  301. Dave

    10) AOB

  302. Dave


  303. daniel


  304. Dave

    11) Ite, Meeting Est

  305. Dave

    But feel ffree to continue chatting of course. I just don't want to minute it anymore. :-)

  306. SamWhited

    Thanks Dave et al.

  307. Ge0rG

    We can move over to xsf@ as well.

  308. SamWhited nods

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