XMPP Council - 2018-01-17

So I've arrived in time. Great.

So, it's time. In theory.

It is.

Do we have an agenda?

I haven't prepared one - my fault entirely.

Dave: maybe we can reuse the one from the week before, and just replace some XEP numbers?

I've had a great holiday season, thanks!

Heh.

daniel, SamWhited - about?

*nods*

yes

Excellent. Kev sent apologies last week as I recall.

I'm interested in getting the user-invite protoXEP voted on

Actually I'd like to get any kind of feedback.

Ge0rG, Yes. That's not yet on Trello for some reason, but was announced last week, so is up for a vote.

Do we have a minute-taker?

Going to take that as a "Dave, you can do it"

So:

1) Roll Call (we're all present aside from Kev)

2) Agenda bashing

I think we have the user-invite ProtoXEP, and a couple of other changes to XEPs.

Let's just roll through them.

3) https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/user-invite.html

Obviously +1

On list

It's not perfect and I'm not 100% happy with the IBR extension format. But it's a pragmatic way forward

on list

I *think* IBR supports forms, in principle. Doesn't it?

Yes

So this should be using those. I'm assuming we can change that after we give it a number though.

Dave: we don't want to use them because forms are a reaction to the inital IBR request from the client, not something initiated by the client

So despite that I'll +1.

Ge0rG, OK. But I suppose my point is that this is a problem we want to solve, and it'll be roughly this shape.

Dave: yes.

SamWhited, ?

Oh, wait, I see you already said on-list.

4) I see XEP-0286 is on the agenda, this is pending a Last Call? Or has had a Last Call? Or what?

It has had a last call and I have been trying to get the council to vote on it for quite some time

OK, looks like Kev added it and I've been skipping it. Right, vote to advance, then?

+1

It was last-called in November, and there was not much feedback. +1 from me

+1

+1.

So just waiting for Kev on list.

Is there a network outage or are we literally waiting for Kev on list? :D

5) I have "Approve text change suggested last year to 48".

That's https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554

Ge0rG, I'm frantically looking things up. :-)

Dave: ah, nevermind then :

:)

+1

+1 on this change.

+1

on list; I forgot about this one and am no longer sure how I feel about it.

it's a pretty minor wording change, documenting the status quo

OK.

6) XEP-0060 changes.

So the first of these, the publish-options change[s] that Daniel has proposed, we went back to the list and got nothing. So I think at this point we just take the view of the Council.

My impression is that we're generally agreed on the third option?

Define 'third option'?

https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/554 <-- this one.

https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/557

Argh. copy/paste error.

557 indeed.

+1 to #557, as apparently nobody in the wider community cares enough or understands the problem.

rendered here: https://gultsch.de/files/xep-0060.html

Sorry for delaying the whole thing for a week, but now I have a less-worse feeling about it.

Ah yes, thanks. Third in terms of GitHub ID, gotcha.

+1

So I suppose this implies -1 to #555 and #556?

+1 to #557 ✏

Ge0rG, those are mutually exclusive

daniel: will you pull them back or do we need to vote them into oblivion?

i would like to revote on 555 in case 557 doesn't get approved

I'm happy with #557 too. I feel more comfortable implementing preconditions than I do overrides.

so i would rather you not -1 #555 before 557 gets approved

but yes

Great!

7) XEP-0387

Given that Kev has pending comments and a PR here, I don't know whether a vote is worthwhile, but I'm happy to take one.

So I suppose I'm asking for a vote on advancement to Draft *without* applying Kev's outstanding PR (and therefore without addressing his comments).

+1

+1 (with the note that I will address Kev's concerns immediately in the 2019 ones which I will start as soon as we finally do something with the 2018 ones)

+1 either with or without #569 applied. I want to get this resolved ASAP.

Also with the note that these do not have to cover everything; they just have to reasonably tell clients what they need to do to implement a modern client (but do not have to cover every single thing under the sun, just offer some basic guidance which we can always improve next year)

One day, the compliance suite will be the Gold Standard for measuring client XMPPness.

I'm abstaining on this one. I don't understand why you're refusing to even discuss this feedback, and I very much doubt Kev will allow it through without, but I'll leave that decision to Kev.

8) Outstanding votes

Ge0rG, I think you owe a vote on pep-vcard-conversion, and totp-2fa, and possibly others.

Dave, did you get/process the email I sent you yesterday?

daniel, You have totp-2fa and client-key outstanding.

ack

Dave: I'm pretty sure I voted everything from last week some days ago

jonasw, Yes/no.

Dave, okay

Dave: sent to council@ on Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:48:17 +0100

Ge0rG, Ah, mea culpa.

hm, maybe vote publicly on standards@ instead?

Dave: no offense taken.

that’s how people’ve been doing it for a while now

I wasn't sure.

But I can bounce that mail over to standards@

done.

Dave: I'm interested in your feedback on my feedback on TOTP-2FA, but that doesn't need to happen within this meeting.

daniel: do you want another clarifying follow-up from me on PEP Avatar to vCard conversion?

Ge0rG: my understanding is that we agreed on putting sensible access control in front of vCard and leave the xep as is. If that's wrong then please do respond on list

daniel: that makes the new xep depend on a change to a historical XEP.

Sorry, my broadband just dropped. Ooops.

Dave: are you missing any history?

Ge0rG: I know. I still belive that vCard deserves that. And ultimately that's the right thing to do

Ge0rG, Nope. And yes, I'll respond to your comments.

If we want to keep using vCards at all that is

I think we're about done here anyway, sorry for the overrun and lack of agenda this week. Normal service resumed next week.

I'm not sure we should be messing with vcard anymore, but we can probably discuss afterwards unless this is critical to someones vote and it can't be done on list?

And looks like kev even wants to put it in the compliance suite

So:

9) Next Meeting

Same time next week?

WFM

Anyone missing?

+1W WFM

Yes sorry. Postponing this until after the meeting

+1w wfm

10) AOB

Anyone?

Nope

11) Ite, Meeting Est

But feel ffree to continue chatting of course. I just don't want to minute it anymore. :-)

Thanks Dave et al.

We can move over to xsf@ as well.