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Dave
Afternoon all.
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Kev
Here.
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daniel
hi
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jonasw
.
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Dave
1) Roll Call [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_Call_(Hank_Mobley_album)]
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Dave
Do we have Ge0rG and SamWhited ?
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SamWhited
oops, yup, sorry
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jonasw
(last messgae I have from georg is around :59, so I guess he’ll be right back)
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Dave
OK, we'll hope Ge0rG joins us later.
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Dave
2) Isn't it nice that Tedd Sterr does the minutes?
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jonasw
yes.
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jonasw
I like his minutes :)
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Dave
It *is*, but he is starting to complain about this section.
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Dave
3) Proposed XMPP Extension: OMEMO Media sharing Title: OMEMO Media sharing Abstract: An informal way of sharing media files despite limitations in the OMEMO encryption URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/omemo-media-sharing.html
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Dave
Anyone any opinions on this one?
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daniel
+1. but i know it might be controversial so no hard feelings if other people are -1 on that :-)
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SamWhited
I don't love the way Conversations shares encrypted files, but I'm not against standardizing it either. I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to send the files in an encrypted ZIP archive or something though.
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SamWhited
That way they can still be opened even if your client doesn't support them, and ZIP is well standardized (or some similar format if there are others that are widely supported)
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daniel
note it's not exactly standarizing just 'informational'
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jonasw
isn’t zip encryption horribly broken?
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SamWhited
It might be
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Dave
That's good. So I'm concerned with inventing a new URI scheme, and also including a thumbnail in the same field. I get that this is Informational, but that usually describe "Best Practices", and this doesn't strike me as one.
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Kev
I think making this Informational seems wrong (less wrong than standards-track, but still).
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Kev
I could see the argument for historical (in its more recent meaning, rather than the formal one).
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Dave
Kev, You have a view on this?
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Dave
Oh. Lag.
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SamWhited
ZIP specifically supports an AES mechanism that's apparently not broken (according to one random site on the internet), but really that was just an example because I knew Windows could open it. There may be some other standard format that's better.
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Kev
But I wouldn't even be fond of historical.
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Kev
Sorry, I think muc.xmpp.org just froze for a few minutes.
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Dave
Ah, that was weird.
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Dave
OK. Votes, then?
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SamWhited
+0
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Kev
-1
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Dave
I'm -1 - I think if we had this now we'd be trying to deprecate it.
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Dave
4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Ephemeral Messages Title: Ephemeral Messages Abstract: This specification defines a protocol to send ephemeral messages over XMPP and synchronize timer value setting across devices. URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ephemeral-messages.html
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Dave
Let it flow, let it flow! Oh, let those stanzas flow...
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Dave
Ah, better. It seems frozen again, hence the song...
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Kev
I'm not entirely sure I even understand this one.
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daniel
as someone who has implement burner messages a couple of times I don’t think this is how it should be done at all
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Dave
I understand it (well, mostly), but I don't see how one can do ephemeral messages in an open environment with any kind of reliability.
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Kev
I think the argument on-list was that it was advisory.
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SamWhited
Yah this didn't seem great to me. Sounds like we're all more or less in agreement here.
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Kev
And you can do advisory ephemeral messages in an open environment.
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Dave
Well, yes. But I have no idea how you communicate the advisory nature to your user.
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daniel
but for something that is 'advisory' there is way too much weird stuff going on in the xep. if you want to achieve the advisory effect just add a <please-burn-after seconds="5"/> to the message and be done with it
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Kev
Or deal with the UX of your messages all vanishing at different times from your local archive.
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Kev
Lua is pegging the CPU.
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Dave
Right - votes, anyone?
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daniel
that's how i usually implement it
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daniel
and not everyone running xmpp is in an open enviroment
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Dave
daniel, Well, that's certainly true.
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SamWhited
-1
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Kev
-1
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Dave
But yeah, NTP-over-XMPP is enough for me to -1 this one.
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daniel
i offered a while ago to write down what i usually use but nobody really wanted me to
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daniel
-1
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Kev
I don't think this *is* NTP over XMPP.
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Kev
It's trying to synchronise agreement on the age of messages before they expire, I *think*.
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Dave
4a) XEP-0045: Add a feature for the voice request flow #653 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/653
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daniel
but offer still stands if people find it useful
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daniel
on list
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daniel
ok never mind. +1
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daniel
and meh lag
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Kev
daniel: I'm almost inclined, although I have no interest in it myself at the moment, to say it'd be worthwhile to head off other people doing it in stranger ways.
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Dave
So this wasn't on the agenda (sorry!), but I figured I'd raise it and if people want to vote on list I'll totally understand.
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Kev
I think the PR should really mention that although it's normatively should now, it wasn't in the past - but equally that voice requests are so rarely (if ever) implemented that we're probably not going to see much fallout from adding as-is.
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Kev
That said, it probably is not hard to just add "this feature advertisement wasn't present in earlier versions of the specification, so servers might implement voice requests and not advertise it".
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Dave
+1 on this PR. Looks straightforward, though if the caveat Kev mentions were added I'd be even happier.
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SamWhited
I don't love adding more things for a feature that is rarely used and slowly growing 0045 even more, but I'm not sure that I'd block either.
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Kev
I'm also not sure what it achieves, other than being certain that a voice request is supported - as you have no way of knowing that it's not supported.
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Dave
OK - votes?
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Ge0rG
I'm very sorry, I just had somebody at the door
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Kev
So I'm +0 on this. I don't see how it's actually helping anything, but won't block it.
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SamWhited
I'm on list I suppose. I keep going back and forth between "it doesn't matter" and "we need to stop adding cruft"
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daniel
Ge0rG, pizza or the police?
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Dave
OK (And welcome Ge0rG).
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Dave
daniel, Could be both.
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Ge0rG
OMEMO Media sharing --> on-list Ephemeral Messages --> I've had a look at it and I don't like it, but I have no constructive ideas how to make ephemeral messages work better. on-list 4a #653 --> +1
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Dave
5) Outstanding Votes
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jonasw
SamWhited: I don't see how a feature var is cruft, tbh. Without it, the existing feature spec is pretty useless.
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Dave
Ge0rG, Thanks.
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Dave
So I haven't updated the Spreadsheet of Doom, which I'll do after this, so I don't actually know what's outstanding.
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Ge0rG
I've heard that I missed a vote on IM-NG and nobody noticed.
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Dave
But if you know you're outstanding, please... instand? ... yourself.
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Dave
6) AOB [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abom_language]
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Dave
Anyone got AOB?
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Kev
Not here.
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daniel
nope
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SamWhited
nope
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Ge0rG
I think that AOB is not aob, but if we insist on it, we should backronym to tlh.
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Dave
7) Next Meeting
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Dave
I think that'd be 2018-06-13 at 1500Z?
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Kev
Sounds likely.
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Ge0rG
I know I can't do next week.
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SamWhited
WFM
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daniel
> I think that'd be 2018-06-13 at 1500Z? 👍
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Dave
Ge0rG, Noted.
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Dave
8) Ite, Meeting Est.
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Dave
Thanks all.
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Kev
Thanks all.
- Dave goes to update the spreadsheet.
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jonasw
Dave: thanks 😺
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Dave
jonasw, No oustanding action I can see for the Editor, but the spreadsheet is updated.
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jonasw
good thanks