XMPP Council - 2018-06-20

  1. Kev

    Anything on the agenda for today?

  2. jonasw

    tedd sterr secretly trying to take over council chair?

  3. Kev

    I think it's fairly overt.

  4. Kev

    'tis time.

  5. Kev

    Who's here?

  6. SamWhited

    Oh hey, I appear to be here now and not silently dropped. *sigh* mcabber.

  7. daniel


  8. Kev

    We seem to not have a chair. So

  9. Kev

    1) Roll call

  10. Kev

    Me, Daniel and Sam, I think.

  11. Kev

    2) Isn't it nice that Tedd Sterr does the agenda?

  12. Kev

    3) Advance XEP-0363: HTTP File Upload

  13. Kev

    I'm afraid that without the agenda in advance, I failed to look at this again, so onlist for me.

  14. SamWhited

    I'm also on list; I'm still nervous about he http headers stuff being too restrictive.

  15. daniel


  16. Kev

    4) Deprecate XEP-0229: Stream Compression with LZW (and XEP-0138: Stream Compression)

  17. SamWhited

    +0 for both.

  18. Kev

    I'm missing context for this being on the agenda - does anyone remember the background?

  19. daniel

    didn’t we vote on that 6 month ago?

  20. Kev

    We have certainly had this come up before.

  21. daniel

    i think the background is 'insecurity'

  22. Kev

    Right, but I mean the background for why it appeared Right Now :)

  23. daniel

    not that i agree necessarily but that's probably why someone requested to deprecate

  24. Kev

    The last thing I can see was back in April when we decided not to advance it.

  25. Kev

    So I'm -0 on this right now.

  26. Kev


  27. daniel


  28. Kev

    5) Any outstanding votes people want to make now?

  29. daniel

    in general i think that compression is nice to have. maybe with proper business rules (resetting the compression when ever the address changes or something) this can be made secure and useful

  30. daniel

    that way the 100+ stanzas a server sends you with the archive can be compressed

  31. Kev

    I think that's a "no" for this one.

  32. Kev

    6) Date of next

  33. Kev


  34. daniel


  35. Kev


  36. SamWhited


  37. Kev

    7) AOB

  38. SamWhited

    I agree with daniel about compression FWIW. I'm not against getting rid of it, but it also helped us massively at HipChat.

  39. Kev

    Clearly some sort of compression is desirable, as XMPP is used on poor links sometimes, and XML is heavily compressible.

  40. daniel

    Yes we should resurrect this soon ish

  41. Kev

    Whether that's these two XEPs, or EXI or whatever, I don't know, but I'm not sure deprecating at the moment is the Right Thing.

  42. Kev

    I think that's "No AOB" unless someone shouts imminently.

  43. SamWhited

    Yah, I agree.

  44. daniel

    Exi doesn't really seem in usable state

  45. Kev

    So, thanks all, we're done.

  46. Kev


  47. Kev

    daniel: EXI itself, or the XEP?

  48. SamWhited


  49. daniel

    And compression with proper secure business rules is probably easier to do

  50. daniel


  51. daniel

    i like the idea of exi

  52. daniel

    but it doesn't seem achievable any time soon

  53. Kev

    EXI is a bit like 138 with preshared dictionaries, in effect, which is something that's been pondered about before.

  54. Kev

    (I use "a bit like" somewhat loosely here)

  55. SamWhited

    Except it also is extremely specialized (to XML) and doesn't have implementations anywhere. Meanwhile every platform, language, and even a lot of hardware have LZ4 and gzip implementations.

  56. daniel

    I mean the promise of exi is that you parse that directly instead of converting that to an XML stream first

  57. daniel

    Thus saving CPU time

  58. SamWhited

    At HipChat we actually saved CPU time from using zlib or whatever it was because encryption overhead is a lot higher and it reduced the number of packets that needed to be encrypted.

  59. SamWhited

    Since most people are using TLS these days (I hope), that seems like it would be pretty common.

  60. daniel

    Right. Yeah no argument here that gzip is beneficial for multiple reasons compared to plain

  61. daniel

    So depreciating stream compression will send the wrong signal I'm afraid. But someone should rework the xep and bump the NS

  62. Kev

    daniel: Except you'll end up converting to XML anyway, because good luck with your server design that is carrying two stream formats through it without an abstraction that looks a lot like a DOM.

  63. daniel

    To enforce the rules

  64. Kev

    That was 'except' in reply to "I mean the promise...".

  65. daniel

    Kev: yeah that's the problem I was talking about when I said it's not really usable right now

  66. daniel

    Both from the xep and the exi side