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Kev
Anything on the agenda for today?
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jonasw
tedd sterr secretly trying to take over council chair?
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Kev
I think it's fairly overt.
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Kev
'tis time.
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Kev
Who's here?
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SamWhited
Oh hey, I appear to be here now and not silently dropped. *sigh* mcabber.
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daniel
hi
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Kev
We seem to not have a chair. So
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Kev
1) Roll call
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Kev
Me, Daniel and Sam, I think.
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Kev
2) Isn't it nice that Tedd Sterr does the agenda?
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Kev
3) Advance XEP-0363: HTTP File Upload
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Kev
I'm afraid that without the agenda in advance, I failed to look at this again, so onlist for me.
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SamWhited
I'm also on list; I'm still nervous about he http headers stuff being too restrictive.
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daniel
+1
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Kev
4) Deprecate XEP-0229: Stream Compression with LZW (and XEP-0138: Stream Compression)
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SamWhited
+0 for both.
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Kev
I'm missing context for this being on the agenda - does anyone remember the background?
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daniel
didn’t we vote on that 6 month ago?
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Kev
We have certainly had this come up before.
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daniel
i think the background is 'insecurity'
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Kev
Right, but I mean the background for why it appeared Right Now :)
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daniel
not that i agree necessarily but that's probably why someone requested to deprecate
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Kev
The last thing I can see was back in April when we decided not to advance it.
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Kev
So I'm -0 on this right now.
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Kev
daniel?
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daniel
-0
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Kev
5) Any outstanding votes people want to make now?
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daniel
in general i think that compression is nice to have. maybe with proper business rules (resetting the compression when ever the address changes or something) this can be made secure and useful
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daniel
that way the 100+ stanzas a server sends you with the archive can be compressed
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Kev
I think that's a "no" for this one.
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Kev
6) Date of next
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Kev
SBTSBC?
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daniel
wfm
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Kev
Sam?
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SamWhited
WFM
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Kev
7) AOB
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SamWhited
I agree with daniel about compression FWIW. I'm not against getting rid of it, but it also helped us massively at HipChat.
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Kev
Clearly some sort of compression is desirable, as XMPP is used on poor links sometimes, and XML is heavily compressible.
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daniel
Yes we should resurrect this soon ish
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Kev
Whether that's these two XEPs, or EXI or whatever, I don't know, but I'm not sure deprecating at the moment is the Right Thing.
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Kev
I think that's "No AOB" unless someone shouts imminently.
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SamWhited
Yah, I agree.
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daniel
Exi doesn't really seem in usable state
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Kev
So, thanks all, we're done.
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Kev
(Fini)
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Kev
daniel: EXI itself, or the XEP?
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SamWhited
Both
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daniel
And compression with proper secure business rules is probably easier to do
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daniel
Both
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daniel
i like the idea of exi
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daniel
but it doesn't seem achievable any time soon
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Kev
EXI is a bit like 138 with preshared dictionaries, in effect, which is something that's been pondered about before.
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Kev
(I use "a bit like" somewhat loosely here)
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SamWhited
Except it also is extremely specialized (to XML) and doesn't have implementations anywhere. Meanwhile every platform, language, and even a lot of hardware have LZ4 and gzip implementations.
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daniel
I mean the promise of exi is that you parse that directly instead of converting that to an XML stream first
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daniel
Thus saving CPU time
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SamWhited
At HipChat we actually saved CPU time from using zlib or whatever it was because encryption overhead is a lot higher and it reduced the number of packets that needed to be encrypted.
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SamWhited
Since most people are using TLS these days (I hope), that seems like it would be pretty common.
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daniel
Right. Yeah no argument here that gzip is beneficial for multiple reasons compared to plain
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daniel
So depreciating stream compression will send the wrong signal I'm afraid. But someone should rework the xep and bump the NS
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Kev
daniel: Except you'll end up converting to XML anyway, because good luck with your server design that is carrying two stream formats through it without an abstraction that looks a lot like a DOM.
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daniel
To enforce the rules
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Kev
That was 'except' in reply to "I mean the promise...".
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daniel
Kev: yeah that's the problem I was talking about when I said it's not really usable right now
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daniel
Both from the xep and the exi side