XMPP Council - 2018-07-11

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  135. Ge0rG My calendar reminded me.
  136. Kev Well done Ge0rG's calendar.
  137. SamWhited I appear to actually be in the room this week
  138. Dave Even I'm here.
  139. jonasw I’m, too!
  140. Ge0rG !ping SamWhited
  141. SamWhited oh wow, I sent that and there was a *lot* of lag, briefly thought it wasn't working after all.
  142. Ge0rG I'll have to translocate starting in 20mins, but maybe my crappy mobile client app will suffice for after that.
  143. jonasw !summon Dave
  144. jonasw !summon daniel
  145. daniel Hi
  146. Ge0rG council@muc.xmpp.org/SamWhited responded to ping after 0.6988s
  147. daniel My lag is fine
  148. jonasw "I’m not 15 minutes late, my lag is just high"
  149. SamWhited Ge0rG: second message was fine, so no idea what that was about
  150. SamWhited and that one
  151. jonasw s2s establishment probably?
  152. Ge0rG Are we part of the establishment?
  153. Ge0rG has left
  154. jonasw ... didn’t check the clock and was wondering why everyone is here but not talking
  155. jonasw and was about to check whether *my* link to this muc was broken
  156. Ge0rG Somebody should write a self-ping XEP.
  157. Ge0rG Oh, wait. That's on my TODO already.
  158. Dave 16:00, golly.
  159. Ge0rG Dave: you were 9 seconds too early.
  160. Dave Pfft.
  161. Dave 1) Role Call
  162. Kev Yma
  163. Dave Kev, Diolch.
  164. SamWhited Here
  165. Ge0rG
  166. daniel Here
  167. Dave Cool.
  168. Dave 2) Agenda Fiddling
  169. Ge0rG Whoops, there is an agenda today. I totally missed that.
  170. Dave Any suggestions? Otherwise I'll go along with what Tedd Sterr has provided, since it seems OK.
  171. Kev No bashing here.
  172. SamWhited SGTM
  173. Dave 3) PR #664 - XEP-0045: Add implementation note about {jabber:x:conference}x payload - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/664
  174. Kev Other than the typo, I don't think this is harmful (but do agree it should have gone to Council vote).
  175. Kev +1 sans typo
  176. Ge0rG There is a typo in that patch. "there still exist*s* server implementations"
  177. Ge0rG +1 sans typo from me as well
  178. daniel +1
  179. SamWhited +1
  180. Dave +1
  181. Dave 4) PR #672 - XEP-0059: Add 'exact(-index)' attribute to RSM's <count/> and <first/> - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/672
  182. Kev I've missed the context on this - anyone got the subject line from standards@ to look at?
  183. Kev I'm -1 regardless, but I'd like to see the discussion that prompted it.
  184. jonasw I think the discussion was in xsf@
  185. Dave I think I have to be on-list for this, I've not seen the discussion and it seems non-trivial.
  186. Kev I think the presence of an optional attribute that has no default in case it's missing is enough for me to -1 it in current form, regardless of intent.
  187. Ge0rG I think it's overdoing. Add complexity for a very specific corner-case. Not that I'm not guilty of that myself.
  188. jonasw Kev, huh, why?
  189. SamWhited I'm on list as well, but am leaning towards -1. I need to reread 0059 again first though.
  190. Dave Kev, Hmmm. Surely the absence means unspecified, as is the case now?
  191. jonasw absence signals "server doesn’t know, doesn’t want to, or does not support this"
  192. jonasw I don’t see anything wrong with that conceptually
  193. Kev It is currently not unspecified, it's currently specified that it may be inexact, and therefore anyone receiving it has to treat it as inexact.
  194. Kev i.e. the current is default exact=false.
  195. Ge0rG the current default is exact=maybe.
  196. Dave Kev, Ah... Interesting. I see your logic there.
  197. Dave daniel, Anything to say/vote before we move on?
  198. Kev Regardless, adding a SHOULD for new protocol to a Draft XEP seems like it needs to be done carefully.
  199. daniel I don't really have an opinion yet
  200. daniel On list
  201. Ge0rG on list from me as well
  202. Dave 5) Stagnant Votes
  203. flow I'd like to note that the commit message tries to provide a motivation
  204. Kev Am I the only one who thinks that thanking yourself in your own patch is terribly bad form too?
  205. Ge0rG flow: "may use an optimized algorithm" is a rather weak motivation.
  206. Dave I think at least a few of my votes have expired due to my absence, and I've no idea what else might be outstanding.
  207. Kev I still owe a vote on HTTP Upload, which may have expired, but I think there's unaddressed feedback on list that I'd like to see discussed before it advances.
  208. Dave I'll commit to updating the Spreadsheet Of Doom over the next couple of days.
  209. Ge0rG Kev: yes it is, but we don't have a better way to add contributors to an XEP, or do we?
  210. Kev I see comments from Goffi without a response, at least.
  211. Kev Ge0rG: I would expect the author or Editor to add a thanks in that case.
  212. Dave 6) AOB
  213. Ge0rG Kev: I haven't seen that happen in practice, yet.
  214. daniel > Am I the only one who thinks that thanking yourself in your own patch is terribly bad form too? Yes. But I get where this is coming from and we don't have a good alternative for being listed as a conttubor
  215. Kev I have NAOB.
  216. SamWhited git blame will list you as a contributor if it's terribly important to you
  217. Ge0rG Maybe we need to add it to the XEP Editor README
  218. Ge0rG begins translocation now.
  219. Dave So apologies for my extended absence - I've had a collision of things (including a new treasurer appeared and then vanishing on me across an accounts deadline for a charity I help with).
  220. Kev We coped, mostly.
  221. Ge0rG has left
  222. Dave On the plus side, I taught myself double-entry ledger book-keeping, which is something.
  223. Dave But in any case, I'll commit to being more around as from now.
  224. Ge0rG That's a bold commitment
  225. Dave 7) Next Meeting
  226. Dave Normal time next week?
  227. Kev WFM
  228. daniel Wfm
  229. SamWhited WFM
  230. Ge0rG Should be fine
  231. Dave I'll actually be on a train, but it should be OK.
  232. Dave 8) Ite, Meeting Est.
  233. Dave Thank all.
  234. Kev Thanks all.
  235. Dave Thanks all.
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  237. flow Ge0rG, would it help if I'd elaborate the algorithm for the exact=true case?
  238. Ge0rG flow: it sounds like you should do that, on standards@
  239. flow I dunno, appears the thing already got -1'ed
  240. Dave flow, It'd be more useful if there were some concrete cases where exactitude was essential.
  241. jonasw flow, modify the PR, re-submit to council, new vote
  242. Dave flow, Well. -1 means "do not advance", and not "never advance".
  243. Ge0rG flow: it seems nobody in the council quite grasped why the extension is needed.
  244. Ge0rG So providing a deeper motivation on the list will probably increase your chances, or at least shift the feedback from "lack of understanding" to practical / formal issues
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