XMPP Council - 2018-07-11

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  135. Ge0rG

    My calendar reminded me.

  136. Kev

    Well done Ge0rG's calendar.

  137. SamWhited

    I appear to actually be in the room this week

  138. Dave

    Even I'm here.

  139. jonasw

    I’m, too!

  140. Ge0rG

    !ping SamWhited

  141. SamWhited

    oh wow, I sent that and there was a *lot* of lag, briefly thought it wasn't working after all.

  142. Ge0rG

    I'll have to translocate starting in 20mins, but maybe my crappy mobile client app will suffice for after that.

  143. jonasw

    !summon Dave

  144. jonasw

    !summon daniel

  145. daniel


  146. Ge0rG

    council@muc.xmpp.org/SamWhited responded to ping after 0.6988s

  147. daniel

    My lag is fine

  148. jonasw

    "I’m not 15 minutes late, my lag is just high"

  149. SamWhited

    Ge0rG: second message was fine, so no idea what that was about

  150. SamWhited

    and that one

  151. jonasw

    s2s establishment probably?

  152. Ge0rG

    Are we part of the establishment?

  153. Ge0rG has left

  154. jonasw

    ... didn’t check the clock and was wondering why everyone is here but not talking

  155. jonasw

    and was about to check whether *my* link to this muc was broken

  156. Ge0rG

    Somebody should write a self-ping XEP.

  157. Ge0rG

    Oh, wait. That's on my TODO already.

  158. Dave

    16:00, golly.

  159. Ge0rG

    Dave: you were 9 seconds too early.

  160. Dave


  161. Dave

    1) Role Call

  162. Kev


  163. Dave

    Kev, Diolch.

  164. SamWhited


  165. Ge0rG

  166. daniel


  167. Dave


  168. Dave

    2) Agenda Fiddling

  169. Ge0rG

    Whoops, there is an agenda today. I totally missed that.

  170. Dave

    Any suggestions? Otherwise I'll go along with what Tedd Sterr has provided, since it seems OK.

  171. Kev

    No bashing here.

  172. SamWhited


  173. Dave

    3) PR #664 - XEP-0045: Add implementation note about {jabber:x:conference}x payload - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/664

  174. Kev

    Other than the typo, I don't think this is harmful (but do agree it should have gone to Council vote).

  175. Kev

    +1 sans typo

  176. Ge0rG

    There is a typo in that patch. "there still exist*s* server implementations"

  177. Ge0rG

    +1 sans typo from me as well

  178. daniel


  179. SamWhited


  180. Dave


  181. Dave

    4) PR #672 - XEP-0059: Add 'exact(-index)' attribute to RSM's <count/> and <first/> - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/672

  182. Kev

    I've missed the context on this - anyone got the subject line from standards@ to look at?

  183. Kev

    I'm -1 regardless, but I'd like to see the discussion that prompted it.

  184. jonasw

    I think the discussion was in xsf@

  185. Dave

    I think I have to be on-list for this, I've not seen the discussion and it seems non-trivial.

  186. Kev

    I think the presence of an optional attribute that has no default in case it's missing is enough for me to -1 it in current form, regardless of intent.

  187. Ge0rG

    I think it's overdoing. Add complexity for a very specific corner-case. Not that I'm not guilty of that myself.

  188. jonasw

    Kev, huh, why?

  189. SamWhited

    I'm on list as well, but am leaning towards -1. I need to reread 0059 again first though.

  190. Dave

    Kev, Hmmm. Surely the absence means unspecified, as is the case now?

  191. jonasw

    absence signals "server doesn’t know, doesn’t want to, or does not support this"

  192. jonasw

    I don’t see anything wrong with that conceptually

  193. Kev

    It is currently not unspecified, it's currently specified that it may be inexact, and therefore anyone receiving it has to treat it as inexact.

  194. Kev

    i.e. the current is default exact=false.

  195. Ge0rG

    the current default is exact=maybe.

  196. Dave

    Kev, Ah... Interesting. I see your logic there.

  197. Dave

    daniel, Anything to say/vote before we move on?

  198. Kev

    Regardless, adding a SHOULD for new protocol to a Draft XEP seems like it needs to be done carefully.

  199. daniel

    I don't really have an opinion yet

  200. daniel

    On list

  201. Ge0rG

    on list from me as well

  202. Dave

    5) Stagnant Votes

  203. flow

    I'd like to note that the commit message tries to provide a motivation

  204. Kev

    Am I the only one who thinks that thanking yourself in your own patch is terribly bad form too?

  205. Ge0rG

    flow: "may use an optimized algorithm" is a rather weak motivation.

  206. Dave

    I think at least a few of my votes have expired due to my absence, and I've no idea what else might be outstanding.

  207. Kev

    I still owe a vote on HTTP Upload, which may have expired, but I think there's unaddressed feedback on list that I'd like to see discussed before it advances.

  208. Dave

    I'll commit to updating the Spreadsheet Of Doom over the next couple of days.

  209. Ge0rG

    Kev: yes it is, but we don't have a better way to add contributors to an XEP, or do we?

  210. Kev

    I see comments from Goffi without a response, at least.

  211. Kev

    Ge0rG: I would expect the author or Editor to add a thanks in that case.

  212. Dave

    6) AOB

  213. Ge0rG

    Kev: I haven't seen that happen in practice, yet.

  214. daniel

    > Am I the only one who thinks that thanking yourself in your own patch is terribly bad form too? Yes. But I get where this is coming from and we don't have a good alternative for being listed as a conttubor

  215. Kev

    I have NAOB.

  216. SamWhited

    git blame will list you as a contributor if it's terribly important to you

  217. Ge0rG

    Maybe we need to add it to the XEP Editor README

  218. Ge0rG begins translocation now.

  219. Dave

    So apologies for my extended absence - I've had a collision of things (including a new treasurer appeared and then vanishing on me across an accounts deadline for a charity I help with).

  220. Kev

    We coped, mostly.

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  222. Dave

    On the plus side, I taught myself double-entry ledger book-keeping, which is something.

  223. Dave

    But in any case, I'll commit to being more around as from now.

  224. Ge0rG

    That's a bold commitment

  225. Dave

    7) Next Meeting

  226. Dave

    Normal time next week?

  227. Kev


  228. daniel


  229. SamWhited


  230. Ge0rG

    Should be fine

  231. Dave

    I'll actually be on a train, but it should be OK.

  232. Dave

    8) Ite, Meeting Est.

  233. Dave

    Thank all.

  234. Kev

    Thanks all.

  235. Dave

    Thanks all.

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  237. flow

    Ge0rG, would it help if I'd elaborate the algorithm for the exact=true case?

  238. Ge0rG

    flow: it sounds like you should do that, on standards@

  239. flow

    I dunno, appears the thing already got -1'ed

  240. Dave

    flow, It'd be more useful if there were some concrete cases where exactitude was essential.

  241. jonasw

    flow, modify the PR, re-submit to council, new vote

  242. Dave

    flow, Well. -1 means "do not advance", and not "never advance".

  243. Ge0rG

    flow: it seems nobody in the council quite grasped why the extension is needed.

  244. Ge0rG

    So providing a deeper motivation on the list will probably increase your chances, or at least shift the feedback from "lack of understanding" to practical / formal issues

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