XMPP Council - 2018-08-08


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  231. Ge0rG

    Good morning. I'm here but will be probably interrupted in the middle of things.

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  233. Ge0rG

    -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690 because the change makes the schema inconsistent with the text. We should fix that by making 'id' mandatory in both places, but I really don't want to version-bump over this.

  234. Ge0rG

    I'd be okay to changing it to a MUST without a version bump, because the protocol doesn't make sense otherwise.

  235. Kev

    It's time.

  236. Kev

    1) Rolls

  237. Kev

    Here

  238. Ge0rG

    Still here. For now.

  239. Kev

    Dave sent apologies.

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  241. Kev

    daniel, SamWhited.

  242. SamWhited

    here, sorry

  243. Ge0rG

    SamWhited: no need to be sorry for being here

  244. daniel

    Hi

  245. SamWhited

    on phone, got stuck in traffic. May be slow to respond.

  246. Kev

    2) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/693

  247. Kev

    I didn't get a chance to review before the meeting, will onlist (for this and the following two)

  248. SamWhited

    +1

  249. Ge0rG

    I only just realized the three PRs 15mins ago

  250. Ge0rG

    onlist

  251. daniel

    On last

  252. daniel

    *List

  253. SamWhited

    ahh, switching between things is now very painful on Android 9

  254. Kev

    3) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/692

  255. Kev

    OL again.

  256. SamWhited

    OL

  257. Ge0rG

    OL as well, but with my lacking knowledge of PubSub I'll probably bring this up next meeting with further questions

  258. Kev

    daniel?

  259. daniel

    On list

  260. Kev

    4) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690

  261. Kev

    Ol

  262. daniel

    On list

  263. Ge0rG

    -1 as written above, right before the meeting start

  264. Ge0rG

    For Tedd: > -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690 because the change makes the schema inconsistent with the text. We should fix that by making 'id' mandatory in both places, but I really don't want to version-bump over this. > I'd be okay to changing it to a MUST without a version bump, because the protocol doesn't make sense otherwise.

  265. Ge0rG

    I'd like to hear what other Council members think of making the 'id' a MUST

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  267. Ge0rG

    ...and doing so without a bump.

  268. SamWhited

    OL

  269. Ge0rG

    and *if* we bump 0184, I'd also add multi-ACKs

  270. daniel

    A version or a name space bump?

  271. daniel

    What's the problem with version bumps

  272. Ge0rG

    daniel: is there a difference between version and namespace bumps?

  273. Kev

    Yes.

  274. Ge0rG

    the version is encoded in the namespace, isn't it?

  275. Kev

    Every change to the XEP has a version bump, most don't touch the namespace.

  276. daniel

    But you mean NS bump then

  277. daniel

    Yeah I wouldn't want to bump the ns

  278. Ge0rG

    I'm indifferent to bumping the version of the XEP document.

  279. Ge0rG

    That's not what causes interop to break ;)

  280. peter

    IIRC we didn't want to assume that everyone would want to do tracking, but I'd be OK with saying that if you send a <received/> element you MUST include an 'id' attribute.

  281. Kev

    It's fairly meaningless otherwise, or I'm being dense. 50:50.

  282. Link Mauve

    This is already implied by <request/> being optional in a message, btw.

  283. Ge0rG

    the alternative would be something like "a receipt without an 'id' is an acknowledge for all messages received so far OMG RACE CONDITIONS!!!"

  284. Link Mauve

    In this PR I did interpret SHOULD as MUST, because it doesn’t make any sense otherwise. I can change it to the MUST it should always have been, in a future version.

  285. peter

    And I don't see a need for a namespace bump - an entity who gets a <received/> back might now get more information, which is nice but AFAICS doesn't break anything in the field.

  286. Kev

    I suppose you could build a synchronous system using receipts without ids.

  287. Kev

    peter: The argument for the bump would be that previously you'd be compliant without the id, but now you wouldn't be.

  288. Kev

    I don't think the disruption is warranted here, but I think a note to the effect that you might receive one without because of previous versions would be sane.

  289. peter

    Sure.

  290. peter nods

  291. Link Mauve

    Ack, I’ll update the PR with such a note.

  292. Kev

    Link Mauve: Ta muchly.

  293. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: 👍

  294. SamWhited

    If it's just about compliance then that seems fine, but I think a NS bump might be necessary because you couldn't rely on their being IDs despite it being a MUST, no?

  295. Kev

    SamWhited: That's what the note would alert you to.

  296. Ge0rG has to go off

  297. SamWhited

    oh right; sorry, need to catch up.

  298. Kev

    You can't really do anything useful with a receipt without an id anyway, even now.

  299. Kev

    Unless you're really building a synchronous system that can't have multiple messages in flight before an ack.

  300. Kev

    But I still need to OL to check it properly.

  301. Kev

    5) Date of next

  302. Kev

    SBTSBC?

  303. SamWhited

    WFM

  304. Kev

    6) AOB?

  305. daniel

    Should work for me. That's the day I'm coming back from vacation. But my plane is scheduled to land a few hours before the meeting

  306. daniel

    None from me

  307. SamWhited

    I apologize for being behind (on last week still too); I will try to catch up. Probably today, at the latest before Friday.

  308. Kev

    Right, I think we're done then. Thanks all :)

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  310. peter

    BTW if you ever think that my participation is needed (as XEP author), feel free to poke me via email or at-mention me at GitHub.

  311. Kev

    Thanks Peter.

  312. peter

    I'm working on very different things these days (e.g., payments), but I'm always happy to help where needed.

  313. jonasw

    peter, while I have you here, have you received my email to trademark@?

  314. Dave has left

  315. peter

    I don't recall seeing it.

  316. jonasw

    mmm

  317. peter

    Those messages redirect to board@ and maybe it's in a queue.

  318. jonasw

    it’s from 2018-07-29

  319. Kev

    board@ is members-only, drop everything else, IIRC.

  320. jonasw

    that would be unfortunate if trademark@ redirects there.

  321. peter

    Nope, we have an admin queue for that list.

  322. peter

    I clear it out every week or so.

  323. Kev

    So if trademark@ is redirecting there I suspect it's being less helpful than it might be.

  324. Kev

    Ah, ok.

  325. Kev

    I remember changing stuff for Laura a few years ago, but I guess we changed it back.

  326. peter

    jonasw: please resend

  327. peter

    I think I deleted it in error

  328. jonasw

    did just now, peter

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  347. peter

    jonasw: received and approved (sorry about the delay, I was in a meeting)

  348. jonasw

    thank you :)

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