XMPP Council - 2018-09-05

  1. Dave has left

  2. Dave has left

  3. Dave has left

  4. Dave has left

  5. Dave has left

  6. daniel has left

  7. Zash has joined

  8. daniel has joined

  9. daniel has left

  10. daniel has joined

  11. Dave has left

  12. Dave has left

  13. daniel has left

  14. daniel has joined

  15. Dave has left

  16. Dave has left

  17. Dave has left

  18. genofire has left

  19. Dave has left

  20. Dave has left

  21. daniel has left

  22. daniel has joined

  23. peter has joined

  24. Dave has left

  25. Dave has joined

  26. Dave has left

  27. Dave has joined

  28. daniel has left

  29. Dave has left

  30. Dave has joined

  31. Dave has left

  32. Dave has joined

  33. daniel has joined

  34. daniel has left

  35. Dave has left

  36. daniel has joined

  37. jere has joined

  38. moparisthebest has left

  39. moparisthebest has joined

  40. Dave has left

  41. Dave has joined

  42. Dave has left

  43. Dave has joined

  44. genofire has left

  45. Dave has left

  46. Dave has joined

  47. Dave has left

  48. Dave has joined

  49. jere has joined

  50. SamWhited has left

  51. Dave has left

  52. Dave has left

  53. Dave has left

  54. Dave has joined

  55. peter has left

  56. Dave has left

  57. Dave has joined

  58. Dave has left

  59. Dave has joined

  60. Dave has left

  61. Dave has joined

  62. Dave has left

  63. Dave has joined

  64. Dave has left

  65. Dave has joined

  66. Dave has left

  67. Dave has joined

  68. Dave has left

  69. Dave has joined

  70. daniel has left

  71. daniel has joined

  72. SamWhited has left

  73. lnj has joined

  74. Dave has left

  75. Dave has joined

  76. Dave has left

  77. Dave has joined

  78. Zash has joined

  79. Dave has left

  80. ralphm has joined

  81. Dave has left

  82. daniel has left

  83. daniel has joined

  84. Dave has left

  85. Dave has left

  86. Dave has left

  87. Dave has left

  88. Dave has left

  89. Dave has left

  90. Dave has left

  91. Dave has left

  92. martin has left

  93. martin has joined

  94. Dave has left

  95. labdsf has left

  96. Dave has left

  97. martin has left

  98. martin has joined

  99. genofire has left

  100. Zash has left

  101. Dave has left

  102. daniel has left

  103. moparisthebest has joined

  104. moparisthebest has joined

  105. daniel has joined

  106. Dave has left

  107. Dave has left

  108. Dave has left

  109. Dave has left

  110. Dave has left

  111. Dave has left

  112. Zash has left

  113. Dave has left

  114. Dave has left

  115. Dave has left

  116. Dave has left

  117. Dave has left

  118. Zash has left

  119. Dave has left

  120. daniel has left

  121. daniel has joined

  122. Dave has left

  123. Dave has left

  124. Dave has left

  125. Dave has left

  126. Dave has left

  127. Dave has left

  128. Dave has left

  129. genofire has left

  130. labdsf has joined

  131. pep. has left

  132. Zash has joined

  133. ralphm has left

  134. Dave has left

  135. Dave has left

  136. Syndace has left

  137. Syndace has joined

  138. daniel has left

  139. daniel has joined

  140. Zash has left

  141. Syndace has left

  142. Syndace has joined

  143. Zash has joined

  144. daniel has left

  145. daniel has joined

  146. Zash has left

  147. daniel has left

  148. daniel has joined

  149. daniel has left

  150. daniel has joined

  151. daniel has left

  152. daniel has joined

  153. daniel has left

  154. daniel has joined

  155. genofire has left

  156. Dave has left

  157. Dave has left

  158. vanitasvitae has left

  159. vanitasvitae has joined

  160. peter has joined

  161. daniel has left

  162. daniel has joined

  163. peter has left

  164. peter has joined

  165. peter set the topic to

    XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

  166. daniel has left

  167. daniel has joined

  168. daniel has left

  169. daniel has joined

  170. Dave has left

  171. Dave has left

  172. Dave has left

  173. Dave has left

  174. peter has left

  175. Dave has left

  176. Dave

    Afternoon. I'm less rubbish than last week (in as much as I'm here), but more rubbish than I should be because I havem't had a chance to do the agenda.

  177. Dave

    This is definitely on it though: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html

  178. Dave

    So this would be the agenda, if I read correctly: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AZ-Sna6OiRG--b-mJMKv3XXfrn3Nehm0kAtlyJvImL0/edit#gid=0&range=B93

  179. Dave

    No, some (many) of these have been voted on.

  180. Dave

    Right, corrected, though I'll fill the votes in later for the ones that have been done.

  181. SamWhited crams before the meeting

  182. Dave

    Righty, 'tis time.

  183. Dave

    1) Roll Call

  184. Dave

    Who be here?

  185. Kev

    Here. Entirely unprepared, but here.

  186. Dave

    I'm pretty unprepared as well.

  187. SamWhited

    I am here, and have read at least one of the protoxeps

  188. SamWhited

    But also pretty unprepared

  189. Dave

    SamWhited, There's only one protoXEP, plus one PR.

  190. SamWhited

    Oh, I thought a second one came in. I have read the protoxep!

  191. Dave

    No Daniel or Georg?

  192. Dave

    2) Voting On Stuff

  193. Lance has joined

  194. Dave

    a) MUC Avatars https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html

  195. daniel


  196. daniel


  197. Kev

    I'll try to get this one on-list, but realistically I'm flat out until holiday and it might expire.

  198. Zash

    I heard Georg is on vacation

  199. Dave

    I'm +1 on this, though i would like to understand how it differs from the de-facto that it suggests exists.

  200. SamWhited

    I'd be curious to hear what others (especially client authors) think about this one. I tend to think it's unnecessary, because you can just do it all already as far as I can see and having a second XEP that says more or less the same as vcard-temp feels awkward to me.

  201. daniel

    Minus presence plus in Disco info

  202. Link Mauve

    Dave, I tried to explain that in both the introduction and section 5.2.

  203. Kev

    I'm +1, have just scanned it.

  204. daniel

    But I'm not entirely sure about the motivation

  205. Link Mauve

    SamWhited, I hesitated about making it just informational, still not too sure.

  206. Dave

    Link Mauve, Ah, I thought that was just about presence.

  207. Dave

    SamWhited, It's mostly usage and semantics rather than protocol, but it seems useful to document.

  208. SamWhited

    That might make a bit more sense, having a standards track XEP that rehashes a historical one and adds discovery just feels odd

  209. Link Mauve

    Dave, presence vs. disco#info is the only part where my proposal differs from the status quo.

  210. Dave

    Link Mauve, Gotcha.

  211. SamWhited

    "That" == "Informational"

  212. daniel

    But since servers will do that anyway now I don't think that this xep will retroactively fix that

  213. daniel

    I mean sorry that clients broke and all

  214. SamWhited

    Documenting things sounds find, but it feels poor to have multiple XEPs in various states documenting the same thing. Couldn't we equally just add a note to vcard-temp saying "remember, MUCs are JIDs too"

  215. Link Mauve

    At least Prosody will probably skip on the presence way.

  216. daniel

    But the demage is done

  217. daniel

    But we don't have to discuss this on council

  218. SamWhited

    Or a nod to vcard temp in 0045 even

  219. Dave

    SamWhited, Are you voting on this or thinking? (Georg is presumed to be on list anyway)

  220. daniel

    I'm +1 and then we can discuss on list once the xep is out

  221. SamWhited

    I'm thinking out loud, just curious to get others opinions. I guess I'm on list. I'm hesitant to publish this, but it seems fine protocol-wise.

  222. Dave


  223. genofire has left

  224. Dave

    b) XEP-0060: Add an example on returning fewer items than requested https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/695

  225. daniel

    Also really if your client breaks if you get a presence from a bare jid. Wtf. Just fix your client

  226. daniel

    The neat thing about doing the presence hash thing is that it worked instantly w/o any changes

  227. Dave

    daniel, Feel free to argue this position on list. :-)

  228. Dave

    Anyone any votes for this PR?

  229. Dave

    I personally think it's straightforward, so +1.

  230. SamWhited

    +1 on the PR, though I'll leave an editorial note for the author, but it won't change the substance of it

  231. Kev

    I'm not sure why this is a thing. What's the backstory here?

  232. Dave

    Link Mauve, ?

  233. Dave

    Kev, FWIW, the XEP doesn't say what happens if a clientrequests N most recent when there are only M (M < N) items present. This is the obvious thing to do.

  234. Kev

    It being the obvious thing made me wonder why it needed to be a thing.

  235. Link Mauve

    Hmm, it was during the XMPP Sprint with MattJ, we IIRC encountered a case where Prosody was sending back an error instead of zero items.

  236. Link Mauve

    This makes sure servers behave correctly in this case.

  237. Kev

    Fair enough. No objections here.

  238. Dave

    Kev, Is that a 0 or a +1?

  239. daniel


  240. SamWhited

    Added some minor nits on wording; only the first one really needs to be fixed. The other is just me being picky and I don't think it actually matters, feel free to disregard.

  241. SamWhited

    (I'm +1 either way with my council hat on, nits are with my editor hat on)

  242. Kev

    0 because I don't have time to do the full review involved in +1ing it. The patch looks fine, but I don't think it's sufficiently diligent to approve just based on the diff - we know how that has worked in the past with complex XEPs like 50.

  243. Dave


  244. Dave

    3) AOB

  245. labdsf has left

  246. Kev


  247. Dave

    4) Next Meeting

  248. Dave

    I saw you were saying you'll be away for a bit, Kev?

  249. labdsf has joined

  250. Kev

    I'm out of action until October.

  251. Dave

    Anyone else going to be MIA?

  252. Kev

    (That'll be fully out of action, not on-list, unfortunately)

  253. Dave

    I have no idea how you'll survive.

  254. Dave

    I'll assume the rest of us will meet same time, same channel.

  255. SamWhited


  256. Dave

    So absent anything else, thanks all, see you next week.

  257. Dave

    5) Ite, Meeting Est.

  258. Syndace has left

  259. Syndace has joined

  260. Link Mauve

    Btw, there are still quite a few outstanding PRs at https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pulls which are tagged as Needs Council, could you add them all to next week’s agenda?

  261. Dave

    Link Mauve, I believe that those have had votes and expired. I'll see about tidying these up and ensuring they're documented etc.

  262. Link Mauve


  263. guus.der.kinderen

    Dave: #579 was voted on?

  264. guus.der.kinderen

    The h thingy on SM

  265. guus.der.kinderen

    It was in February, but was modified since.

  266. peter has joined

  267. Kev has left

  268. Dave has left

  269. Lance has left

  270. Lance has joined

  271. Lance has left

  272. Kev has left

  273. martin has left

  274. genofire has left

  275. martin has joined

  276. Dave has left

  277. Link Mauve has left

  278. labdsf has left

  279. labdsf has joined

  280. Dave has left

  281. genofire has left

  282. labdsf has left

  283. martin has left

  284. labdsf has joined

  285. jonasw has left

  286. labdsf has left

  287. Kev has left

  288. Dave has left

  289. Dave has left

  290. vanitasvitae has left

  291. lnj has left

  292. lnj has joined

  293. martin has left

  294. martin has left

  295. martin has left

  296. Dave has left

  297. Dave has left

  298. genofire has left

  299. jonasw has left

  300. labdsf has joined

  301. labdsf has left

  302. labdsf has joined

  303. SamWhited has left

  304. daniel has left

  305. labdsf has left

  306. labdsf has joined

  307. daniel has left

  308. flow

    guus.der.kinderen, #579 appears to be conflicting with master (at least gh tells me so)

  309. labdsf has left

  310. labdsf has joined

  311. labdsf has left

  312. labdsf has joined

  313. flow

    guus.der.kinderen, I would suggest squashing into a single commit and rebaseing on the current master

  314. labdsf has joined

  315. labdsf has left

  316. labdsf has joined

  317. daniel has left

  318. labdsf has left

  319. labdsf has joined

  320. labdsf has left

  321. labdsf has joined

  322. labdsf has left

  323. labdsf has joined

  324. daniel has left

  325. daniel has left

  326. labdsf has joined

  327. labdsf has left

  328. labdsf has joined

  329. martin has left

  330. martin has left

  331. martin has joined

  332. labdsf has left

  333. labdsf has joined

  334. labdsf has left

  335. labdsf has joined

  336. labdsf has left

  337. labdsf has joined

  338. Link Mauve has joined

  339. Link Mauve has left

  340. Link Mauve has joined

  341. labdsf has left

  342. labdsf has joined

  343. labdsf has left

  344. labdsf has joined

  345. Link Mauve has left

  346. labdsf has left

  347. labdsf has joined

  348. labdsf has left

  349. labdsf has joined

  350. labdsf has joined

  351. labdsf has joined

  352. labdsf has left

  353. labdsf has joined

  354. labdsf has left

  355. labdsf has joined

  356. genofire has left

  357. labdsf has left

  358. labdsf has joined

  359. daniel has left

  360. Link Mauve has joined

  361. daniel has left

  362. SamWhited has left

  363. labdsf has left

  364. labdsf has joined

  365. labdsf has left

  366. labdsf has joined

  367. labdsf has left

  368. labdsf has joined

  369. labdsf has joined

  370. labdsf has left

  371. labdsf has joined

  372. labdsf has left

  373. labdsf has joined

  374. labdsf has left

  375. labdsf has joined

  376. daniel has left

  377. SouL has joined

  378. martin has left

  379. labdsf has left

  380. labdsf has joined

  381. moparisthebest has left

  382. moparisthebest has joined

  383. lnj has left

  384. Zash has left

  385. Dave has left

  386. Kev has left

  387. peter has left

  388. genofire has left

  389. genofire has left

  390. labdsf has left

  391. labdsf has joined

  392. labdsf has left

  393. labdsf has joined

  394. Zash has left

  395. genofire has left

  396. labdsf has left

  397. labdsf has joined

  398. moparisthebest has left

  399. moparisthebest has joined

  400. Dave has left

  401. Dave has left

  402. Dave has left

  403. Dave has left

  404. Dave has left

  405. Dave has left

  406. Dave has left

  407. moparisthebest has left

  408. genofire has joined

  409. moparisthebest has joined

  410. Dave has left

  411. pep. has left

  412. Dave has left

  413. vanitasvitae has left

  414. Dave has left

  415. Dave has left

  416. Dave has left

  417. Dave has left