XMPP Council - 2018-09-05

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  165. peter set the topic to XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda
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  176. Dave Afternoon. I'm less rubbish than last week (in as much as I'm here), but more rubbish than I should be because I havem't had a chance to do the agenda.
  177. Dave This is definitely on it though: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html
  178. Dave So this would be the agenda, if I read correctly: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AZ-Sna6OiRG--b-mJMKv3XXfrn3Nehm0kAtlyJvImL0/edit#gid=0&range=B93
  179. Dave No, some (many) of these have been voted on.
  180. Dave Right, corrected, though I'll fill the votes in later for the ones that have been done.
  181. SamWhited crams before the meeting
  182. Dave Righty, 'tis time.
  183. Dave 1) Roll Call
  184. Dave Who be here?
  185. Kev Here. Entirely unprepared, but here.
  186. Dave I'm pretty unprepared as well.
  187. SamWhited I am here, and have read at least one of the protoxeps
  188. SamWhited But also pretty unprepared
  189. Dave SamWhited, There's only one protoXEP, plus one PR.
  190. SamWhited Oh, I thought a second one came in. I have read the protoxep!
  191. Dave No Daniel or Georg?
  192. Dave 2) Voting On Stuff
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  194. Dave a) MUC Avatars https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html
  195. daniel Here
  196. daniel +1
  197. Kev I'll try to get this one on-list, but realistically I'm flat out until holiday and it might expire.
  198. Zash I heard Georg is on vacation
  199. Dave I'm +1 on this, though i would like to understand how it differs from the de-facto that it suggests exists.
  200. SamWhited I'd be curious to hear what others (especially client authors) think about this one. I tend to think it's unnecessary, because you can just do it all already as far as I can see and having a second XEP that says more or less the same as vcard-temp feels awkward to me.
  201. daniel Minus presence plus in Disco info
  202. Link Mauve Dave, I tried to explain that in both the introduction and section 5.2.
  203. Kev I'm +1, have just scanned it.
  204. daniel But I'm not entirely sure about the motivation
  205. Link Mauve SamWhited, I hesitated about making it just informational, still not too sure.
  206. Dave Link Mauve, Ah, I thought that was just about presence.
  207. Dave SamWhited, It's mostly usage and semantics rather than protocol, but it seems useful to document.
  208. SamWhited That might make a bit more sense, having a standards track XEP that rehashes a historical one and adds discovery just feels odd
  209. Link Mauve Dave, presence vs. disco#info is the only part where my proposal differs from the status quo.
  210. Dave Link Mauve, Gotcha.
  211. SamWhited "That" == "Informational"
  212. daniel But since servers will do that anyway now I don't think that this xep will retroactively fix that
  213. daniel I mean sorry that clients broke and all
  214. SamWhited Documenting things sounds find, but it feels poor to have multiple XEPs in various states documenting the same thing. Couldn't we equally just add a note to vcard-temp saying "remember, MUCs are JIDs too"
  215. Link Mauve At least Prosody will probably skip on the presence way.
  216. daniel But the demage is done
  217. daniel But we don't have to discuss this on council
  218. SamWhited Or a nod to vcard temp in 0045 even
  219. Dave SamWhited, Are you voting on this or thinking? (Georg is presumed to be on list anyway)
  220. daniel I'm +1 and then we can discuss on list once the xep is out
  221. SamWhited I'm thinking out loud, just curious to get others opinions. I guess I'm on list. I'm hesitant to publish this, but it seems fine protocol-wise.
  222. Dave Cool.
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  224. Dave b) XEP-0060: Add an example on returning fewer items than requested https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/695
  225. daniel Also really if your client breaks if you get a presence from a bare jid. Wtf. Just fix your client
  226. daniel The neat thing about doing the presence hash thing is that it worked instantly w/o any changes
  227. Dave daniel, Feel free to argue this position on list. :-)
  228. Dave Anyone any votes for this PR?
  229. Dave I personally think it's straightforward, so +1.
  230. SamWhited +1 on the PR, though I'll leave an editorial note for the author, but it won't change the substance of it
  231. Kev I'm not sure why this is a thing. What's the backstory here?
  232. Dave Link Mauve, ?
  233. Dave Kev, FWIW, the XEP doesn't say what happens if a clientrequests N most recent when there are only M (M < N) items present. This is the obvious thing to do.
  234. Kev It being the obvious thing made me wonder why it needed to be a thing.
  235. Link Mauve Hmm, it was during the XMPP Sprint with MattJ, we IIRC encountered a case where Prosody was sending back an error instead of zero items.
  236. Link Mauve This makes sure servers behave correctly in this case.
  237. Kev Fair enough. No objections here.
  238. Dave Kev, Is that a 0 or a +1?
  239. daniel +1
  240. SamWhited Added some minor nits on wording; only the first one really needs to be fixed. The other is just me being picky and I don't think it actually matters, feel free to disregard.
  241. SamWhited (I'm +1 either way with my council hat on, nits are with my editor hat on)
  242. Kev 0 because I don't have time to do the full review involved in +1ing it. The patch looks fine, but I don't think it's sufficiently diligent to approve just based on the diff - we know how that has worked in the past with complex XEPs like 50.
  243. Dave OK
  244. Dave 3) AOB
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  246. Kev Nowt.
  247. Dave 4) Next Meeting
  248. Dave I saw you were saying you'll be away for a bit, Kev?
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  250. Kev I'm out of action until October.
  251. Dave Anyone else going to be MIA?
  252. Kev (That'll be fully out of action, not on-list, unfortunately)
  253. Dave I have no idea how you'll survive.
  254. Dave I'll assume the rest of us will meet same time, same channel.
  255. SamWhited WFM
  256. Dave So absent anything else, thanks all, see you next week.
  257. Dave 5) Ite, Meeting Est.
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  260. Link Mauve Btw, there are still quite a few outstanding PRs at https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pulls which are tagged as Needs Council, could you add them all to next week’s agenda?
  261. Dave Link Mauve, I believe that those have had votes and expired. I'll see about tidying these up and ensuring they're documented etc.
  262. Link Mauve Ta.
  263. guus.der.kinderen Dave: #579 was voted on?
  264. guus.der.kinderen The h thingy on SM
  265. guus.der.kinderen It was in February, but was modified since.
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  308. flow guus.der.kinderen, #579 appears to be conflicting with master (at least gh tells me so)
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  313. flow guus.der.kinderen, I would suggest squashing into a single commit and rebaseing on the current master
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