XMPP Council - 2019-03-27

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09:25:47 Kev Hopefully the last week of silliness, but I'm probably going to be unavailable at Council time again.
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15:51:56 Ge0rG I'm there today, and I'm very sorry for missing the last ones.
15:54:12 dwd Afternoon all - I'm having a catastrophic day, so I'd be very grateful if we could skip this week.
15:54:39 Ge0rG Looks like we are missing two already.
15:54:40 jonas’ I think we should get the vote on '412 started to stop people from flaming to the list
15:54:48 Ge0rG I'd absolutely love to have a formal vote on 0412
15:55:06 Ge0rG even if it's the only agenda item and everybody is on-list
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15:55:23 Ge0rG I'm willing to chair through such a mini-agenda.
15:55:42 jonas’ I’d be very ok with that
15:55:54 dwd Do you have a Link Mauve?
15:56:09 jonas’ he was around in another MUC a minute ago
15:56:38 Link Mauve I am here yes.
15:56:47 Ge0rG There is also ATT in the inbox.
15:56:48 dwd Link Mauve, Opinion?
15:56:58 jonas’ so we have 3/5 and we could get the vote on '412 and that protoxep started
15:57:12 jonas’ with my editor hat on, I’d like to get the protoxep started, too, because it was lingering in the inbox for quite a while
15:57:36 Link Mauve Sounds sensible.
15:58:03 dwd If you guys want to vote on those two, I can go along with that.
15:58:25 Ge0rG dwd: would you like somebody else (me?) to chair that?
16:00:01 dwd Ge0rG, I'll take you up on that, it means I can pay less attention, and I confess my mind is on other things today.
16:00:48 Ge0rG 1) Alright. Welcome everybody, roll call!
16:00:54 jonas’ is here
16:01:10 dwd here (but distracted)
16:01:25 Ge0rG Kev sent apologies. Link Mauve?
16:01:30 Link Mauve Yup.
16:01:38 Ge0rG Awesome.
16:01:49 jonas’ 3.5/5, let’s roll
16:02:07 Ge0rG 2) Agenda Bashing. I've got XEP-0412 for Draft and ATT from inbox
16:02:12 Ge0rG Anything else?
16:02:22 jonas’ there is a needs council PR open
16:02:24 Ge0rG Thanks go to Tedd Sterr, the shoe fixing elf.
16:02:33 jonas’ https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/764
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16:03:08 Ge0rG I'm on a data capped connection, so I'll let that load in the background for now.
16:03:17 jonas’ > XEP-0308: Clarify correcting a message multiple times
16:03:38 Link Mauve Ugh, that’ll break existing clients which correct based on the previous id.
16:03:40 Ge0rG 3a) Item for Vote: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0412.html for Draft
16:04:05 jonas’ Link Mauve, rightfully so!!!
16:04:22 jonas’ I’m +1 on 3a
16:04:23 Link Mauve Ge0rG, +1 for me, your changes are good and we really should move on with that one.
16:04:33 Ge0rG +1 obviously
16:04:54 Ge0rG Alright, let's assume dwd being distracted and on-list and move on.
16:05:17 Ge0rG 3b) Proposal of https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/automatic-trust-transfer.html
16:05:25 Link Mauve On list.
16:05:31 dwd Mea culpa. I am on-list, but I did wonder if we should consider a last call once more given the change of author?
16:05:32 jonas’ on list
16:05:43 dwd (that of 412)
16:05:56 dwd I'm on-list for ATT as well.
16:06:15 Ge0rG dwd: what would be your rationale for that? I can see an LC regarding my content changes, but I'd rather revert those and vote on Draft now, with a later changes-related Council vote then.
16:06:22 Ge0rG On list for ATT.
16:07:32 Ge0rG 3c) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/764 "XEP-0308: Clarify correcting a message multiple times"
16:07:46 dwd Ge0rG, Mostly in the hope we'd hear at least some useful comments from the standards list, I admit.
16:07:55 jonas’ I’m +1 on 3c
16:07:56 dwd on-list for 3c.
16:08:25 jonas’ it is, in my opinion, the obvious reading of the XEP. I know that others have other obvious readings, but should definitely pick one official obvious reading
16:08:34 Ge0rG -1. The XEP is in dire need of clarification, but the PR does a change into the wrong direction. It's more logical to correct the _last_ message and not the _first_ one, e.g. when fetching partial MUC history.
16:09:11 Link Mauve I’m ±0 on 3c, it will break clients, but the other way will probably break the other set of clients anyway although it seems more logical to me.
16:09:38 Link Mauve Ge0rG, right.
16:09:43 Ge0rG I need some damn good rationale (better than in the XEP change block) to get me convinced.
16:10:48 Ge0rG 4) Outstanding Votes
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16:12:09 Ge0rG Proposed XMPP Extension: E2E Authentication in XMPP: Certificate Issuance and Revocation - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/eax-cir.html
16:12:17 Ge0rG is expiring today. Not sure if there are still open votes on that
16:12:37 Ge0rG Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/dox.html as well
16:12:56 jonas’ I’m still on list :/
16:13:11 jonas’ Link Mauve, do you have an opinion on eax-cir?
16:13:12 Link Mauve 4a I’m still on list too. :x
16:13:45 moparisthebest iirc DoX is only missing a vote from Kev and passes unless he -1's it
16:13:47 jonas’ +1 to eax-cir
16:14:06 Ge0rG did jonas’ change to -0 on DoX?
16:14:12 jonas’ Ge0rG, yes
16:16:23 jonas’ afk
16:17:07 Ge0rG looks like eax-cir is going to pass with a slight minority then as well.
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16:17:12 Ge0rG 5) Next Meeting
16:17:23 Link Mauve +1W.
16:17:26 Ge0rG +1W sounds like it works for Kev as well
16:17:28 Ge0rG +1W WFM
16:18:44 Ge0rG Well. Let's just try it and see what happens.
16:18:45 Ge0rG 6) AOB
16:19:02 Link Mauve Yes, I have an AOB for the editors, there are a few linging PRs still marked as Needs Council while our votes are expired, such as https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/747
16:19:11 Link Mauve Please do the needful. :)
16:19:41 Ge0rG Looks like the active subset of our editors just vanished. Let's hope they read the Minutes.
16:20:22 Ge0rG It also never hurts to mention that there is always one more place for volunteer editors.
16:20:49 Link Mauve mathieui, IIRC you were interested.
16:21:06 Ge0rG 6B) AOAOB?
16:21:57 Ge0rG looks like we are done here.
16:22:17 Ge0rG 7) Incomprehensible Latin Words
16:23:00 dwd "Ite, Meeting Est". A paraphrase of the latin Catholic order of service, which is a phrase in such arcane Latin that nobody actually knows its literal meaning.
16:23:11 dwd Also, thanks Ge0rG.
16:23:30 Ge0rG Thanks everyone.
16:23:51 moparisthebest so... who do I have to bribe to publish DoX on monday morning...
16:24:27 Ge0rG moparisthebest: we are looking for volunteer editors!
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16:24:37 SouL You could bribe yourself, how cool is that
16:24:40 Ge0rG moparisthebest: apply today, get approved tomorrow in Board.
16:24:49 moparisthebest hmmmmmm interesting
16:24:59 SouL We made a call for editors not long ago
16:25:02 Ge0rG and hope that iteam will give you the required permissions until then.
16:56:49 pep. "Ge0rG> -1. The XEP is in dire need of clarification, but the PR does a change into the wrong direction. It's more logical to correct the _last_ message and not the _first_ one, e.g. when fetching partial MUC history.", I also think it should be the other way, but tbh I don't mind as long as it's clear. What guarantees do we have that the other way it not going to be vetoed either? :(
16:57:22 jonas’ FWIW, I won’t veto it, that’d be silly, I don’t even maintain an implementation.
16:57:25 jonas’ (yet)
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16:59:07 Link Mauve I wouldn’t veto it either, but it indeed would be much better to get a good rationale for the change, either way it goes.
17:00:07 jonas’ pep., I also think that council is better than getting in a change-veto-loop
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17:54:18 pep. As it was mentioned here, I'd like to see more documentation for what I can do without any rights for the editors. I am soon going to have a bit more time and I hope I can help with that. If it's "you need powers" I'm also happy to be knighted if necessary, assuming I know the things to do
17:54:49 jonas’ "without any rights" not much
17:55:02 jonas’ with github powers you can already do a lot
17:55:06 jonas’ which I also outlined in my mail to members@
18:01:02 pep. jonas’, ok so I need to be knighted in any case if I want in right
18:01:13 jonas’ I think so
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