XMPP Council - 2019-05-22

  1. Ge0rG looks around, then hides under a large rock

  2. dwd has seen.

  3. jonas’ too

  4. dwd


  5. jonas’


  6. jonas’

    itym OOK.

  7. dwd

    It's meeting time, is what I actually meant.

  8. jonas’

    now it is

  9. Kev

    Except it wasn't.

  10. Kev

    But now is.

  11. jonas’

    there we go

  12. jonas’ flips the rock under which Ge0rG is hiding over to uncover him

  13. dwd

    1) Who is here?

  14. jonas’

    I am

  15. Ge0rG


  16. dwd

    Sorry for the late start.

  17. Kev

    I is here.

  18. Ge0rG

    How is it late if you stated 5 seconds early?

  19. dwd

    Link Mauve ?

  20. Kev

    He won't know the answer to that, surely?

  21. dwd

    Kev, Apparently not.

  22. dwd

    2) Agenda Tcshing

  23. dwd

    Anyone got anything more than was already on the agenda?

  24. dwd

    If not...

  25. dwd

    3) Items for votings:

  26. dwd

    a) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690 XEP-0184: Make the schema require @id in <received/>

  27. Kev

    I've left a comment there just moments ago.

  28. Kev


  29. dwd

    As noted, this is an old PR that's been rejected, but has since been reopened.

  30. jonas’

    I agree with Kevs comment

  31. Ge0rG

    +1, ideally including the Kev wording change

  32. jonas’

    I was confused there too for a second

  33. dwd

    Kev, Is that a veto, but accepting it in advance with that note?

  34. Kev

    I guess technically yes? But really it's "yes, and" rather than "No!".

  35. jonas’

    I follow Kev on this one

  36. Kev

    I really view it as approval given that Link Mauve would presumably update the text before the end of the voting period :)

  37. Kev

    But regardless, +1 if that tweak gets merged, -0 otherwise.

  38. dwd

    OK - so... Votes... Is that everyone with a bizarre conditional +1, then?

  39. Ge0rG

    But we'd have to have a new vote after the update

  40. dwd

    Ge0rG, Not if you all veto and change it when Link Mauve updates.

  41. Kev

    Ge0rG: I'm not convinced we really do. Nothing says that the change we vote on has to be in github.

  42. dwd

    Kev, This is also true.

  43. Ge0rG

    dwd: we miss your vote

  44. jonas’

    I think council can just bring in their own changes anyways

  45. Kev

    A proposed change that we approve being "Link Mauve's change plus Kev's text" can be approved AFAICS.

  46. jonas’

    so if we say "yeah, we want that change, Editor, do that when you merge" that’s what’s going to happen

  47. dwd

    Ge0rG, Good point. I'm +1 on the change including Kev's proposal.

  48. dwd

    Moving on...

  49. dwd

    b) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/750 XEP-0300: remove content which has been moved to XEP-0414

  50. Kev

    I think events have overtaken this.

  51. jonas’

    do they?

  52. Kev

    As an Author already okayed it.

  53. jonas’

    have they?

  54. dwd

    Have they?

  55. jonas’

    ah, that

  56. jonas’


  57. dwd

    In that case, do we want to consider Last Call - I feel we should probably wait until this is merged.

  58. Ge0rG

    Can't we make a last call with a bizarre precondition?

  59. jonas’

    it’s all about bizarre conditions today

  60. dwd

    Ge0rG, Our powers are without limitation, it seems.

  61. dwd

    But no, we'll await a merge, I think.

  62. jonas’

    dwd, I think Board might have a word on that ;)

  63. Ge0rG

    dwd: we might need an author or a shepherd for the last call.

  64. dwd

    4) Outstanding Votes

  65. Ge0rG

    A membership vote is open.

  66. dwd

    When I wrote the agenda, we had none. Now we have one from Link Mauve...

  67. dwd

    5) AOB

  68. dwd

    No, wait.

  69. dwd

    5) Next Meeting

  70. dwd

    2019-05-29 OK for everyone?

  71. Ge0rG

    Most probably yes

  72. jonas’

    you’re making me do arithmetics in my head

  73. jonas’

    I don’t like that

  74. Kev

    I don't immediately have a problem with it :)

  75. jonas’


  76. dwd

    6) AOB

  77. jonas’

    none from me

  78. Kev


  79. dwd

    I do, vaguely - does anyone have pointers to the "Inbox" discussions from the various summits?

  80. Ge0rG

    I don't have any breaking changes to XEPs to offer on short notice.

  81. jonas’

    I’d expect Kev to have some

  82. jonas’

    but surely we have minutes?

  83. dwd

    I ask because I'm considering knocking out a candidate design, and I'm curious to see how it matches what has been discussed.

  84. jonas’

    there’s something on smart mam here which might relate slightly to that: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Minutes_of_the_2019_Summit:_Day_one

  85. dwd

    But no matter, I'm sure I can probably find the minutes etc.

  86. Kev

    I don't have pointers to them, but I have considerable interest in the area, and also opinions ;)

  87. dwd

    Kev, Opinions? How unlike you.

  88. Kev

    In as much as I think it can be driven pretty much entirely through smart use of the archive currently referred to as MAM.

  89. jonas’

    dwd, there’s also this: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Minutes_of_the_2018_Summit:_Day_one#1.4_Inbox_.28Open_Chats.29

  90. dwd

    Kev, I agree up to a point.

  91. dwd

    jonas’, Thanks.

  92. Kev

    dwd: I'm up for a quick chat about it, at least. Before or after a strawman or more appears.

  93. Ge0rG

    I remember a discussion in Düsseldorf that resulted in the realization that just using MAM, smartly or not, is not sufficient.

  94. Kev

    No, MAM is not sufficient.

  95. dwd

    Kev, Cool, I'll organise a timeslot.

  96. Kev

    But I think it makes sense to be using data heavily tied to the archive that is currently presented over MAM.

  97. jonas’

    I’d like to at least listen in to those discussions

  98. dwd

    Kev, Yes, with you there.

  99. dwd

    jonas’, I'll organise a timeslot with a chatroom attached.

  100. jonas’

    that sounds great

  101. jonas’

    unless it’s a webex ;)

  102. dwd

    jonas’, Oh, you want video too?

  103. jonas’


  104. jonas’

    doesn’t work anyways

  105. dwd

    (I';m actually fine with that, but...)

  106. Ge0rG

    It MUST be using XMPP. No Experimental XEPs, though.

  107. dwd

    Ge0rG, :-)

  108. Kev

    I was assuming video, because bandwidth.

  109. dwd

    Right, anyway, I think we're drifting into:

  110. Kev

    Thanks all.

  111. dwd

    7) Ite, Meeting Est.

  112. jonas’

    I don’t like the acausality of today’s meeting.

  113. jonas’

    thanks, dwd & all

  114. dwd

    jonas’, Cause and effect, but not necessarily in that order.

  115. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm pretty sure that people haven't yet digested the fallout of the preceding meetings, that resulted in a peak of editor activity recently.

  116. jonas’

    for certain definitions of "recently"

  117. jonas’

    I did most of the stuff last week and simply forget to send the emails :-X

  118. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm sure that all the people who are using website change notification services to watch for XEP changes noticed.