XMPP Council - 2019-11-27

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  59. jonas’


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  61. Ge0rG


  62. Dave Cridland


  63. Zash


  64. Ge0rG

    Too soon?

  65. Ge0rG

    maybe even Noonien Soong?

  66. Ge0rG

    It's time!

  67. daniel


  68. Dave Cridland


  69. Dave Cridland

    1) Roll Call

  70. jonas’ is here

  71. Dave Cridland

    Do we have everyone?

  72. Zash here

  73. Ge0rG .

  74. Dave Cridland of course

  75. daniel

    and me

  76. Dave Cridland

    Right, that's everyone.

  77. Dave Cridland

    Kept counting and missing someone because jonas’ responded so quick. :-)

  78. Dave Cridland

    2) Agenda Bashing

  79. jonas’


  80. Dave Cridland

    The only thing I'd like to do is vote in a new Chair.

  81. Dave Cridland


  82. Dave Cridland

    3) Nominations for XMPP Council Chair

  83. jonas’

    I nominate myself

  84. Dave Cridland

    Anyone else?

  85. Dave Cridland


  86. Dave Cridland

    Well, this should make the voting simple.

  87. Ge0rG

    I've been thinking a while about volunteering for that, but honestly, I just don't have the time.

  88. Dave Cridland

    4) Voting:

  89. Dave Cridland

    We don't have anyone else nominated, so this seems a bit pointless, but I think we technically vote, so:

  90. Dave Cridland

    I vote for jonas’ :-)

  91. daniel


  92. Ge0rG

    +1 for jonas’

  93. jonas’

    I abstain ;)

  94. Zash


  95. Ge0rG

    that makes it a +4/1/-0

  96. Dave Cridland

    jonas’, You realise your abstention means the vote isn't unanimous by some measurements?

  97. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, I am fine with that, unless we need an unanimous vote to proceed

  98. Dave Cridland


  99. Dave Cridland

    jonas’, Your meeting, then. Thanks for volunteering!

  100. jonas’

    Thanks for your trust. I shall use it wisely.

  101. jonas’

    5) Date of next

  102. jonas’

    (and regular meeting time rhythm)

  103. jonas’

    This timeslot works well for me for various reasons and I’d like to keep it, if nobody has objections.

  104. Ge0rG

    Generally this timeslot works for me as well, but I'll be on the road next week

  105. daniel

    yes the timeslot is fine

  106. Zash

    Should work for me too

  107. Dave Cridland

    This timeslot works for me. Presumably if we find it becomes tricky in practise we can review it.

  108. jonas’


  109. jonas’

    6) AOB

  110. jonas’

    I have one, but I’d like to let others go first

  111. Dave Cridland waits for Ge0rG.

  112. Dave Cridland

    I have nothing.

  113. Ge0rG

    I wanted to mention https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/653 as kind-of-needs-Council

  114. Ge0rG

    And right now, I don't have anything

  115. Ge0rG

    All my usual AOBs, while still not clarified, can wait

  116. jonas’

    Ge0rG, good point

  117. jonas’

    (I should try to make poezio show chat states in a non-obstrusive way for this room.)

  118. jonas’

    assuming noone else:

  119. jonas’

    quick summary of how I intend to do this: My goal would be to send the agenda by tuesdays, 20:00Z, since I can dedicate much of the time frame from 19:00Z to 20:00Z to this generally

  120. jonas’

    so it’s not the 24h-in-advance agenda which would be ideal, but this allows me to dedicate time to collecting everything properly, which is hopefully worth something

  121. jonas’

    (at the same time, I hope to use the remainder of that time slot for editor duties, but that’s slightly off-topic)

  122. jonas’

    if you have any agenda items which are not in xsf/xeps tagged as Needs Council, send them directly to me (mailto:jonas@zombofant.net or xmpp same address)

  123. jonas’

    if you send them to standards@, please CC my mail address explicitly so that I get a copy in a separate inbox

  124. daniel

    sounds good. thank you jonas’

  125. jonas’

    I think that’s it from me

  126. jonas’

    if you’ve got any suggestions on how we should run this, I’m of course open for that

  127. Ge0rG

    jonas’: sounds great (except that this is not the same xmpp address as in your Council application)

  128. Dave Cridland

    Recreating the Spreadsheet of Doom might be useful.

  129. jonas’

    Ge0rG, the other one works too, of course

  130. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, good point

  131. pep.

    We might want to write this down somewhere?

  132. Dave Cridland

    I'll see if I can find a copy of the last one and hand it over to jonas’ if there's interest?

  133. pep.

    Wiki might be a good start

  134. pep.

    "Council process for 2019/2020 term" or sth

  135. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, can’t harm

  136. Ge0rG

    I must say, I didn't miss the Spreadsheet of Doom as much after Tedd started sending those weekly vote summaries. Huge thanks to Tedd BTW

  137. pep.

    read "process" with lots of quotes

  138. jonas’

    pep., someone certainly could. I see you volunteered?

  139. pep.

    did I?

  140. jonas’

    (the submission suggestions I’ll put below each agenda mail just like dave did, because that’s a good thing IMO)

  141. pep.

    That'd be great if council could handle that themselves tbh

  142. jonas’

    pep., I agree.

  143. pep.

    They know better

  144. jonas’


  145. Dave Cridland

    pep., Seems more of a Board thing. :-P

  146. pep.

    Dave Cridland, to choose meeting dates and internal council processes? :)

  147. Dave Cridland

    pep., To put things in Wiki pages. :-)

  148. pep.

    board can appoint people to do that for sure :-°

  149. Dave Cridland

    Well played.

  150. Ge0rG

    Can board appoint somebody to make our wiki mobile-friendly?

  151. jonas’

    I think this is getting off-topic.

  152. pep.


  153. jonas’

    Thanks for your additional input and trust again :)

  154. jonas’

    7) Ite, Meeting Est.

  155. Zash


  156. Dave Cridland

    Thanks, jonas’!

  157. jonas’

    one way to deal with the spreadsheet-of-doom thing would be to re-vive Secretary

  158. jonas’

    also, if I read this correctly, Ge0rG has superpowers in this room. I’d like to have it so that I can see real JIDs here for a quick identity check, too.

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  160. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm sorry, my powers are not super enough to do that.

  161. jonas’

    fascinating, then the sorting in poezio is misleading

  162. pep.


  163. jonas’

    re-routing my request to ralphm or Kev: I’d like to have it so that I can see real JIDs here for a quick identity check, too.

  164. Zash

    Ge0rG: I looked at the wiki btw. Unfortunately it's yet another herd of hairy yaks.

  165. Ge0rG

    Zash: that's sad to hear.

  166. Ge0rG

    Zash: you could start with your bio for the Council page, though ;)

  167. jonas’

    If only we had working Reactions.

  168. jonas’

    then Secretary could use those to acknowledge understanding of messages instead of a full message, reducing the cognitive load

  169. Dave Cridland

    I did https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/656 BTW, so I'd hold off on the bios until that's merged.

  170. Zash

    Any suggestions?

  171. jonas’

    Zash, something prosody? I don’t know what and if your dayjob has anything to do with XMPP.

  172. Zash

    Prosody and Prosody accessiores.

  173. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, merged

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  176. pep.

    jonas’, maybe get Tedd onboard with secretary? I think that would be a great addition to council's panel (a bit of automation) if people have some time to invest

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  178. jonas’

    pep., problem is that secretary wasn’t well received due to the level of noise it produced

  179. jonas’

    I’m not sure how to reduce the level of noise though

  180. jonas’

    writing the software itself isn’t an issue

  181. pep.

    Design issues that can probably be worked out

  182. jonas’

    pep., then suggestions are stronly welcome

  183. pep.

    Also people need to learn how to work with tools if it can alleviate some work from other volunteers :)

  184. pep.

    (and tools can be changed)

  185. jonas’

    pep., yes please make suggestions how to change the tools

  186. jonas’

    we don’t have a way to send messages which are shown in a more "bland" way by default, so the choices seem to be "not confirm actions explicitly" (which can be dangerous since votes are involved) or "clutter the backlog", both of which are quite meh

  187. jonas’

    pep., https://logs.xmpp.org/council/2019-01-23#2019-01-23-c7e1846fae720801 here’s the last meeting with secretary where it became quite apparent

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  189. Ge0rG

    Isn't a tool a tool because they *can't* be changed? :P

  190. jonas’

    Looking at the backlog, things might be slightly improved if the power to manage polls is at the chair only

  191. jonas’

    (manage = create, delete, rename)

  192. jonas’

    anyways, gotta take care of some soup

  193. pep.

    jonas’, I think most of the confusion was that people didn't know how to talk to the bot? Or get their vote counted?

  194. pep.

    Also votes were created during the meeting and not beforehand?

  195. jonas’

    the former: maybe

  196. jonas’

    the latter: yes, which is also a good-ish thing because Secretary will announce additional metadata on the just-created poll and it marks it as "active", i.e. vote commadns without context will be attached to that poll

  197. jonas’

    this could probably be improved by adding an "agenda" layer

  198. jonas’

    maybe I should go in that direction an play with that a little

  199. Zash

    The more that has been prepared beforehand, the better

  200. pep.

    I'm happy to betatest in some channel of your choice later on :)

  201. jonas’

    pep., you can bookmark botkindergarten@conference.zombofant.net

  202. pep.


  203. jonas’

    there’s a Secretary there right now, but it’s broken for a reason I don’t know

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