XMPP Council - 2019-11-27


  1. jonas’

    .

  2. Ge0rG

    ..

  3. Dave Cridland

    ...

  4. Zash

    Soon

  5. Ge0rG

    Too soon?

  6. Ge0rG

    maybe even Noonien Soong?

  7. Ge0rG

    It's time!

  8. daniel

    Hi

  9. Dave Cridland

    OK!

  10. Dave Cridland

    1) Roll Call

  11. jonas’ is here

  12. Dave Cridland

    Do we have everyone?

  13. Zash here

  14. Ge0rG .

  15. Dave Cridland of course

  16. daniel

    and me

  17. Dave Cridland

    Right, that's everyone.

  18. Dave Cridland

    Kept counting and missing someone because jonas’ responded so quick. :-)

  19. Dave Cridland

    2) Agenda Bashing

  20. jonas’

    haha

  21. Dave Cridland

    The only thing I'd like to do is vote in a new Chair.

  22. Dave Cridland

    So:

  23. Dave Cridland

    3) Nominations for XMPP Council Chair

  24. jonas’

    I nominate myself

  25. Dave Cridland

    Anyone else?

  26. Dave Cridland

    OK.

  27. Dave Cridland

    Well, this should make the voting simple.

  28. Ge0rG

    I've been thinking a while about volunteering for that, but honestly, I just don't have the time.

  29. Dave Cridland

    4) Voting:

  30. Dave Cridland

    We don't have anyone else nominated, so this seems a bit pointless, but I think we technically vote, so:

  31. Dave Cridland

    I vote for jonas’ :-)

  32. daniel

    +1

  33. Ge0rG

    +1 for jonas’

  34. jonas’

    I abstain ;)

  35. Zash

    +1

  36. Ge0rG

    that makes it a +4/1/-0

  37. Dave Cridland

    jonas’, You realise your abstention means the vote isn't unanimous by some measurements?

  38. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, I am fine with that, unless we need an unanimous vote to proceed

  39. Dave Cridland

    Nope.

  40. Dave Cridland

    jonas’, Your meeting, then. Thanks for volunteering!

  41. jonas’

    Thanks for your trust. I shall use it wisely.

  42. jonas’

    5) Date of next

  43. jonas’

    (and regular meeting time rhythm)

  44. jonas’

    This timeslot works well for me for various reasons and I’d like to keep it, if nobody has objections.

  45. Ge0rG

    Generally this timeslot works for me as well, but I'll be on the road next week

  46. daniel

    yes the timeslot is fine

  47. Zash

    Should work for me too

  48. Dave Cridland

    This timeslot works for me. Presumably if we find it becomes tricky in practise we can review it.

  49. jonas’

    sure

  50. jonas’

    6) AOB

  51. jonas’

    I have one, but I’d like to let others go first

  52. Dave Cridland waits for Ge0rG.

  53. Dave Cridland

    I have nothing.

  54. Ge0rG

    I wanted to mention https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/653 as kind-of-needs-Council

  55. Ge0rG

    And right now, I don't have anything

  56. Ge0rG

    All my usual AOBs, while still not clarified, can wait

  57. jonas’

    Ge0rG, good point

  58. jonas’

    (I should try to make poezio show chat states in a non-obstrusive way for this room.)

  59. jonas’

    assuming noone else:

  60. jonas’

    quick summary of how I intend to do this: My goal would be to send the agenda by tuesdays, 20:00Z, since I can dedicate much of the time frame from 19:00Z to 20:00Z to this generally

  61. jonas’

    so it’s not the 24h-in-advance agenda which would be ideal, but this allows me to dedicate time to collecting everything properly, which is hopefully worth something

  62. jonas’

    (at the same time, I hope to use the remainder of that time slot for editor duties, but that’s slightly off-topic)

  63. jonas’

    if you have any agenda items which are not in xsf/xeps tagged as Needs Council, send them directly to me (mailto:jonas@zombofant.net or xmpp same address)

  64. jonas’

    if you send them to standards@, please CC my mail address explicitly so that I get a copy in a separate inbox

  65. daniel

    sounds good. thank you jonas’

  66. jonas’

    I think that’s it from me

  67. jonas’

    if you’ve got any suggestions on how we should run this, I’m of course open for that

  68. Ge0rG

    jonas’: sounds great (except that this is not the same xmpp address as in your Council application)

  69. Dave Cridland

    Recreating the Spreadsheet of Doom might be useful.

  70. jonas’

    Ge0rG, the other one works too, of course

  71. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, good point

  72. pep.

    We might want to write this down somewhere?

  73. Dave Cridland

    I'll see if I can find a copy of the last one and hand it over to jonas’ if there's interest?

  74. pep.

    Wiki might be a good start

  75. pep.

    "Council process for 2019/2020 term" or sth

  76. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, can’t harm

  77. Ge0rG

    I must say, I didn't miss the Spreadsheet of Doom as much after Tedd started sending those weekly vote summaries. Huge thanks to Tedd BTW

  78. pep.

    read "process" with lots of quotes

  79. jonas’

    pep., someone certainly could. I see you volunteered?

  80. pep.

    did I?

  81. jonas’

    (the submission suggestions I’ll put below each agenda mail just like dave did, because that’s a good thing IMO)

  82. pep.

    That'd be great if council could handle that themselves tbh

  83. jonas’

    pep., I agree.

  84. pep.

    They know better

  85. jonas’

    +should

  86. Dave Cridland

    pep., Seems more of a Board thing. :-P

  87. pep.

    Dave Cridland, to choose meeting dates and internal council processes? :)

  88. Dave Cridland

    pep., To put things in Wiki pages. :-)

  89. pep.

    board can appoint people to do that for sure :-°

  90. Dave Cridland

    Well played.

  91. Ge0rG

    Can board appoint somebody to make our wiki mobile-friendly?

  92. jonas’

    I think this is getting off-topic.

  93. pep.

    Sorry

  94. jonas’

    Thanks for your additional input and trust again :)

  95. jonas’

    7) Ite, Meeting Est.

  96. Zash

    Woop

  97. Dave Cridland

    Thanks, jonas’!

  98. jonas’

    one way to deal with the spreadsheet-of-doom thing would be to re-vive Secretary

  99. jonas’

    also, if I read this correctly, Ge0rG has superpowers in this room. I’d like to have it so that I can see real JIDs here for a quick identity check, too.

  100. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm sorry, my powers are not super enough to do that.

  101. jonas’

    fascinating, then the sorting in poezio is misleading

  102. pep.

    indeed

  103. jonas’

    re-routing my request to ralphm or Kev: I’d like to have it so that I can see real JIDs here for a quick identity check, too.

  104. Zash

    Ge0rG: I looked at the wiki btw. Unfortunately it's yet another herd of hairy yaks.

  105. Ge0rG

    Zash: that's sad to hear.

  106. Ge0rG

    Zash: you could start with your bio for the Council page, though ;)

  107. jonas’

    If only we had working Reactions.

  108. jonas’

    then Secretary could use those to acknowledge understanding of messages instead of a full message, reducing the cognitive load

  109. Dave Cridland

    I did https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/656 BTW, so I'd hold off on the bios until that's merged.

  110. Zash

    Any suggestions?

  111. jonas’

    Zash, something prosody? I don’t know what and if your dayjob has anything to do with XMPP.

  112. Zash

    Prosody and Prosody accessiores.

  113. jonas’

    Dave Cridland, merged

  114. pep.

    jonas’, maybe get Tedd onboard with secretary? I think that would be a great addition to council's panel (a bit of automation) if people have some time to invest

  115. jonas’

    pep., problem is that secretary wasn’t well received due to the level of noise it produced

  116. jonas’

    I’m not sure how to reduce the level of noise though

  117. jonas’

    writing the software itself isn’t an issue

  118. pep.

    Design issues that can probably be worked out

  119. jonas’

    pep., then suggestions are stronly welcome

  120. pep.

    Also people need to learn how to work with tools if it can alleviate some work from other volunteers :)

  121. pep.

    (and tools can be changed)

  122. jonas’

    pep., yes please make suggestions how to change the tools

  123. jonas’

    we don’t have a way to send messages which are shown in a more "bland" way by default, so the choices seem to be "not confirm actions explicitly" (which can be dangerous since votes are involved) or "clutter the backlog", both of which are quite meh

  124. jonas’

    pep., https://logs.xmpp.org/council/2019-01-23#2019-01-23-c7e1846fae720801 here’s the last meeting with secretary where it became quite apparent

  125. Ge0rG

    Isn't a tool a tool because they *can't* be changed? :P

  126. jonas’

    Looking at the backlog, things might be slightly improved if the power to manage polls is at the chair only

  127. jonas’

    (manage = create, delete, rename)

  128. jonas’

    anyways, gotta take care of some soup

  129. pep.

    jonas’, I think most of the confusion was that people didn't know how to talk to the bot? Or get their vote counted?

  130. pep.

    Also votes were created during the meeting and not beforehand?

  131. jonas’

    the former: maybe

  132. jonas’

    the latter: yes, which is also a good-ish thing because Secretary will announce additional metadata on the just-created poll and it marks it as "active", i.e. vote commadns without context will be attached to that poll

  133. jonas’

    this could probably be improved by adding an "agenda" layer

  134. jonas’

    maybe I should go in that direction an play with that a little

  135. Zash

    The more that has been prepared beforehand, the better

  136. pep.

    I'm happy to betatest in some channel of your choice later on :)

  137. jonas’

    pep., you can bookmark botkindergarten@conference.zombofant.net

  138. pep.

    done

  139. jonas’

    there’s a Secretary there right now, but it’s broken for a reason I don’t know

  140. Ge0rG

    0410?