XMPP Council - 2019-12-18

I'll be late by a minute or two, I'm stuck at a train crossing

I'm physically present.

'tis time.

1) Roll Call

I'm proxying the spirit of Dave and saying he's on his way, but trying to make a working XMPP connection.

Here, but at work

Here!

daniel?

here

No, it's Dave, but good effort.

1sec

ok, finally on a thing with a keyboard

2) Agenda Bashing

The only thing I’ve got is the ProtoXEP for character counting.

Anything else?

Not from me.

okay, moving on then

3) Items for a Vote

3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Character counting in message bodies ✏

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/charcount.html

I’m +1 on this as it is.

+1

+1

Ge0rG?

I need to read through it yet, on-list

ok

4) Outstanding Votes

I'm very sorry, but work and J06.9G have skewed my schedule

except for Ge0rGs outstanding vote on the charcount protoxep, there’s the Reactions thing

I'm also outstanding on reactions.

anyone wants to cast votes now? it’s expiring today

Reactions seems to be moving now so I don't object. +0 I guess?

A report on Reactions and Fastenings is something I could give in AOB?

dwd, let’s hear it now so that we can handle it during the outstanding votes

Can we move to AOB then and postpone outstanding votes?

Loosely: Kev and I have spent today working through both the feedback on-list and also more generally trying to get a Fastenings with MAM story (and still have it work with full stanza encryption to some degree).

We believe we now have somethign we can both implement in our respective servers, and that should be implementable for anyone indeed.

I have a related question about Fastening, which I'm updating at this moment. Does anyone care if I make changes without a bump, given I don't think anyone's using it yet?

Kev, it’s experimental, go ahead (IMO)

+1 for bumpless re-fastening

dwd, Kev, do you want to involve other "stakeholders" before presenting your solution?

Well, it's hard to do so without a concrete proposal.

larma: I think easiest is going to be send out the proposal and gather feedback.

ok

More usefully, this is Experimental, and very much a proposal - though we think it's a working one, we'll no doubt have missed some cases.

dwd: were you able to address smart summaries as well?

Yes.

And they're simpler than we discussed on list.

I’m curious about your proposal and looking forward to it.

I don’t think there’s anything we can discuss in this venue about it though.

Kev is typing it as we speak.

ralphm will have to re-write https://ralphm.net/blog/2019/09/09/fastening

I'm in a management role, here. ;-)

Well, I'm typing the fastenings edits. I'm hoping that Dave will write the smart archive bit ;)

okay.

(Which I will, then)

Does anyone want to cast or change votes on Reactions?

if my records are up-to-date, dwd is vetoing it

jonas’: I'm -1ing Reactions then, because I agree with Dave on a new-Council-resubmission being formally problematic, and because of the fastening movement

I’m also -1 on Reactions now for the same reasons as stated by Ge0rG, but I’ll consider a resubmission if and only if Fastenings isn’t turning out useful.

fwiw as the one who brought it back to the table and the only one who voted +1 i'm fine with your decisions and i agree with them

This is fine.

I am trying to maintain momentum here, and if that stops, do chase me.

i'm not going to change my own vote (doesn’t matter anyway) - but i agree with it

Given that it at least brough movement in the fastening discussion again, I am fine as well.

(fyi, not that it really matters)

My offer remains that once Fastening has stabilised a bit I'm willing to try to update the Reactions proposal to reduce the pain on the authors.

larmaIt does matter, and I'm glad you're seeing progress.

Zash, "this is fine"?

(you’re still technically on-list)

jonas’, That mem with the dog in the burning cafe?

dwd, maybe

jonas’, does it matter if I say +0 or nothing while you're vetoing it?

Zash, it matters in the count of expired votes ;)

Zash, It means the vote doesn't timeout if you +0 it.

I think it kinda does matter that Council are expressing their votes, even when they won't effect a different result.

ok, moving on then.

5) Date of Next

I guess it doesn’t make sense to have a meeting on the 25th

I’d be available on Jan 1st, but I don’t know what about you folks.

i'm ok with the 1st

most probably not.

I’d also be available on any day in week 1 (30th -- 3rd) if 1st isn’t working out but any other date would

I doubt I'd remember on the 1st.

I could do the 2nd just fine though.

push it to the 2nd?

2nd is probably fine for me too

because i don’t wont to skip two times

And as ever, I'm totally open to changing the time if that's a problem for anyone.

does Jan 2nd usual time usual place work for everyone?

i.e. 2020-01-02 16:00Z?

Yes.

Yes

probably not, but that's not reason not to do it

okthen

Next meeting is officially at 2020-01-02 16:00Z in this channel.

k

6) Any other Business?

Please note that the votes on the ProtoXEP will expire before the next meeting

Ge0rG had a small AOB, so he’s up next

thanks, jonas’

I just wanted to say that MattJ and me have been implementing XEP-0401 today, with some small deviations, and that the PoC looks good

also Zash, who created the foundation for it, thanks very much

XEP-0401: Easy User Onboarding

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html

that’s amazing

anything else?

no

any other any other business?

No more from me. ✏

7) Ite, Meeting Est

thanks everyone

Thanks jonas’

Thanks

thanks to Kev and dwd specifically for putting in the Fastening effort, thanks to larma for the patience and thanks to Ge0rG and MattJ for the work on '401

thanks!

Eating Meeting Yeast.

have nice holidays and a Guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr

I also live-updated the Spreadsheet of Doom if anyone is interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANu9KGmNf2r-qpLYqF7NdJTtqA1GIu55rf2deKbM0GA/edit?usp=sharing

Zash: it's not too late to vote!

How2decide things

said the council member

⚁⚃⚅⚅⚃ ✏

Ge0rG, make a thing where you shake the phone to provide randomness for that

Zash: there used to be a dice rolling app for Android where you had to shake your phone to trigger the dice rolling.

jonas’, eh, fine, -1, your condition, until an update

"rageshake" is a thing apparently

\o/

I'm happy that the thing is moving forward