XMPP Council - 2019-12-18

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  66. jonas’

    I'll be late by a minute or two, I'm stuck at a train crossing

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  69. Ge0rG

    I'm physically present.

  70. jonas’

    'tis time.

  71. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  72. jonas’

  73. Kev

    I'm proxying the spirit of Dave and saying he's on his way, but trying to make a working XMPP connection.

  74. Zash

    Here, but at work

  75. dwd


  76. jonas’


  77. daniel


  78. Kev

    No, it's Dave, but good effort.

  79. jonas’


  80. jonas’

    ok, finally on a thing with a keyboard

  81. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  82. jonas’

    The only thing I’ve got is the ProtoXEP for character counting.

  83. jonas’

    Anything else?

  84. dwd

    Not from me.

  85. Zash manages to connect personal laptop via phone to internets

  86. jonas’

    okay, moving on then

  87. jonas’

    3) Items for a Vote

  88. jonas’

    3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Character Counting

  89. jonas’

    3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Character counting in message bodies

  90. jonas’

    URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/charcount.html

  91. jonas’

    I’m +1 on this as it is.

  92. Zash +1

  93. daniel


  94. dwd


  95. jonas’


  96. Ge0rG

    I need to read through it yet, on-list

  97. jonas’


  98. jonas’

    4) Outstanding Votes

  99. Ge0rG

    I'm very sorry, but work and J06.9G have skewed my schedule

  100. jonas’

    except for Ge0rGs outstanding vote on the charcount protoxep, there’s the Reactions thing

  101. Ge0rG

    I'm also outstanding on reactions.

  102. jonas’

    anyone wants to cast votes now? it’s expiring today

  103. Zash

    Reactions seems to be moving now so I don't object. +0 I guess?

  104. dwd

    A report on Reactions and Fastenings is something I could give in AOB?

  105. jonas’

    dwd, let’s hear it now so that we can handle it during the outstanding votes

  106. Ge0rG

    Can we move to AOB then and postpone outstanding votes?

  107. dwd

    Loosely: Kev and I have spent today working through both the feedback on-list and also more generally trying to get a Fastenings with MAM story (and still have it work with full stanza encryption to some degree).

  108. dwd

    We believe we now have somethign we can both implement in our respective servers, and that should be implementable for anyone indeed.

  109. Kev

    I have a related question about Fastening, which I'm updating at this moment. Does anyone care if I make changes without a bump, given I don't think anyone's using it yet?

  110. jonas’

    Kev, it’s experimental, go ahead (IMO)

  111. Ge0rG

    +1 for bumpless re-fastening

  112. larma

    dwd, Kev, do you want to involve other "stakeholders" before presenting your solution?

  113. dwd

    Well, it's hard to do so without a concrete proposal.

  114. Kev

    larma: I think easiest is going to be send out the proposal and gather feedback.

  115. larma


  116. dwd

    More usefully, this is Experimental, and very much a proposal - though we think it's a working one, we'll no doubt have missed some cases.

  117. Ge0rG

    dwd: were you able to address smart summaries as well?

  118. dwd


  119. dwd

    And they're simpler than we discussed on list.

  120. jonas’

    I’m curious about your proposal and looking forward to it.

  121. jonas’

    I don’t think there’s anything we can discuss in this venue about it though.

  122. dwd

    Kev is typing it as we speak.

  123. Ge0rG

    ralphm will have to re-write https://ralphm.net/blog/2019/09/09/fastening

  124. dwd

    I'm in a management role, here. ;-)

  125. Kev

    Well, I'm typing the fastenings edits. I'm hoping that Dave will write the smart archive bit ;)

  126. jonas’


  127. dwd

    (Which I will, then)

  128. jonas’

    Does anyone want to cast or change votes on Reactions?

  129. jonas’

    if my records are up-to-date, dwd is vetoing it

  130. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm -1ing Reactions then, because I agree with Dave on a new-Council-resubmission being formally problematic, and because of the fastening movement

  131. Ge0rG also got a little AOB

  132. jonas’

    I’m also -1 on Reactions now for the same reasons as stated by Ge0rG, but I’ll consider a resubmission if and only if Fastenings isn’t turning out useful.

  133. daniel

    fwiw as the one who brought it back to the table and the only one who voted +1 i'm fine with your decisions and i agree with them

  134. Zash

    This is fine.

  135. Kev

    I am trying to maintain momentum here, and if that stops, do chase me.

  136. daniel

    i'm not going to change my own vote (doesn’t matter anyway) - but i agree with it

  137. larma

    Given that it at least brough movement in the fastening discussion again, I am fine as well.

  138. larma

    (fyi, not that it really matters)

  139. Kev

    My offer remains that once Fastening has stabilised a bit I'm willing to try to update the Reactions proposal to reduce the pain on the authors.

  140. dwd

    larmaIt does matter, and I'm glad you're seeing progress.

  141. jonas’

    Zash, "this is fine"?

  142. jonas’

    (you’re still technically on-list)

  143. dwd

    jonas’, That mem with the dog in the burning cafe?

  144. jonas’

    dwd, maybe

  145. Zash

    jonas’, does it matter if I say +0 or nothing while you're vetoing it?

  146. jonas’

    Zash, it matters in the count of expired votes ;)

  147. dwd

    Zash, It means the vote doesn't timeout if you +0 it.

  148. Kev

    I think it kinda does matter that Council are expressing their votes, even when they won't effect a different result.

  149. jonas’

    ok, moving on then.

  150. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  151. jonas’

    I guess it doesn’t make sense to have a meeting on the 25th

  152. jonas’

    I’d be available on Jan 1st, but I don’t know what about you folks.

  153. daniel

    i'm ok with the 1st

  154. Ge0rG

    most probably not.

  155. jonas’

    I’d also be available on any day in week 1 (30th -- 3rd) if 1st isn’t working out but any other date would

  156. dwd

    I doubt I'd remember on the 1st.

  157. dwd

    I could do the 2nd just fine though.

  158. daniel

    push it to the 2nd?

  159. Zash

    2nd is probably fine for me too

  160. daniel

    because i don’t wont to skip two times

  161. dwd

    And as ever, I'm totally open to changing the time if that's a problem for anyone.

  162. jonas’

    does Jan 2nd usual time usual place work for everyone?

  163. jonas’

    i.e. 2020-01-02 16:00Z?

  164. dwd


  165. daniel


  166. Ge0rG

    probably not, but that's not reason not to do it

  167. jonas’


  168. jonas’

    Next meeting is officially at 2020-01-02 16:00Z in this channel.

  169. Zash


  170. jonas’

    6) Any other Business?

  171. jonas’

    Please note that the votes on the ProtoXEP will expire before the next meeting

  172. jonas’

    Ge0rG had a small AOB, so he’s up next

  173. Ge0rG

    thanks, jonas’

  174. Ge0rG

    I just wanted to say that MattJ and me have been implementing XEP-0401 today, with some small deviations, and that the PoC looks good

  175. Ge0rG

    also Zash, who created the foundation for it, thanks very much

  176. jonas’

    XEP-0401: Easy User Onboarding

  177. jonas’


  178. jonas’

    that’s amazing

  179. jonas’

    anything else?

  180. Ge0rG


  181. jonas’

    any other any other business?

  182. dwd

    None more from me.

  183. dwd

    No more from me.

  184. jonas’

    7) Ite, Meeting Est

  185. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  186. dwd

    Thanks jonas’

  187. Zash


  188. jonas’

    thanks to Kev and dwd specifically for putting in the Fastening effort, thanks to larma for the patience and thanks to Ge0rG and MattJ for the work on '401

  189. Ge0rG


  190. Kev

    Eating Meeting Yeast.

  191. jonas’

    have nice holidays and a Guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr

  192. jonas’

    I also live-updated the Spreadsheet of Doom if anyone is interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANu9KGmNf2r-qpLYqF7NdJTtqA1GIu55rf2deKbM0GA/edit?usp=sharing

  193. Ge0rG

    Zash: it's not too late to vote!

  194. Zash

    How2decide things

  195. jonas’

    said the council member

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  203. Zash

    Ge0rG, make a thing where you shake the phone to provide randomness for that

  204. Ge0rG

    Zash: there used to be a dice rolling app for Android where you had to shake your phone to trigger the dice rolling.

  205. Zash

    jonas’, eh, fine, -1, your condition, until an update

  206. Zash

    "rageshake" is a thing apparently

  207. jonas’


  208. Zash

    I'm happy that the thing is moving forward

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