XMPP Council - 2019-12-18

  1. jonas’

    I'll be late by a minute or two, I'm stuck at a train crossing

  2. Ge0rG

    I'm physically present.

  3. jonas’

    'tis time.

  4. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  5. jonas’

  6. Kev

    I'm proxying the spirit of Dave and saying he's on his way, but trying to make a working XMPP connection.

  7. Zash

    Here, but at work

  8. dwd


  9. jonas’


  10. daniel


  11. Kev

    No, it's Dave, but good effort.

  12. jonas’


  13. jonas’

    ok, finally on a thing with a keyboard

  14. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  15. jonas’

    The only thing I’ve got is the ProtoXEP for character counting.

  16. jonas’

    Anything else?

  17. dwd

    Not from me.

  18. Zash manages to connect personal laptop via phone to internets

  19. jonas’

    okay, moving on then

  20. jonas’

    3) Items for a Vote

  21. jonas’

    3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Character Counting

  22. jonas’

    3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Character counting in message bodies

  23. jonas’

    URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/charcount.html

  24. jonas’

    I’m +1 on this as it is.

  25. Zash +1

  26. daniel


  27. dwd


  28. jonas’


  29. Ge0rG

    I need to read through it yet, on-list

  30. jonas’


  31. jonas’

    4) Outstanding Votes

  32. Ge0rG

    I'm very sorry, but work and J06.9G have skewed my schedule

  33. jonas’

    except for Ge0rGs outstanding vote on the charcount protoxep, there’s the Reactions thing

  34. Ge0rG

    I'm also outstanding on reactions.

  35. jonas’

    anyone wants to cast votes now? it’s expiring today

  36. Zash

    Reactions seems to be moving now so I don't object. +0 I guess?

  37. dwd

    A report on Reactions and Fastenings is something I could give in AOB?

  38. jonas’

    dwd, let’s hear it now so that we can handle it during the outstanding votes

  39. Ge0rG

    Can we move to AOB then and postpone outstanding votes?

  40. dwd

    Loosely: Kev and I have spent today working through both the feedback on-list and also more generally trying to get a Fastenings with MAM story (and still have it work with full stanza encryption to some degree).

  41. dwd

    We believe we now have somethign we can both implement in our respective servers, and that should be implementable for anyone indeed.

  42. Kev

    I have a related question about Fastening, which I'm updating at this moment. Does anyone care if I make changes without a bump, given I don't think anyone's using it yet?

  43. jonas’

    Kev, it’s experimental, go ahead (IMO)

  44. Ge0rG

    +1 for bumpless re-fastening

  45. larma

    dwd, Kev, do you want to involve other "stakeholders" before presenting your solution?

  46. dwd

    Well, it's hard to do so without a concrete proposal.

  47. Kev

    larma: I think easiest is going to be send out the proposal and gather feedback.

  48. larma


  49. dwd

    More usefully, this is Experimental, and very much a proposal - though we think it's a working one, we'll no doubt have missed some cases.

  50. Ge0rG

    dwd: were you able to address smart summaries as well?

  51. dwd


  52. dwd

    And they're simpler than we discussed on list.

  53. jonas’

    I’m curious about your proposal and looking forward to it.

  54. jonas’

    I don’t think there’s anything we can discuss in this venue about it though.

  55. dwd

    Kev is typing it as we speak.

  56. Ge0rG

    ralphm will have to re-write https://ralphm.net/blog/2019/09/09/fastening

  57. dwd

    I'm in a management role, here. ;-)

  58. Kev

    Well, I'm typing the fastenings edits. I'm hoping that Dave will write the smart archive bit ;)

  59. jonas’


  60. dwd

    (Which I will, then)

  61. jonas’

    Does anyone want to cast or change votes on Reactions?

  62. jonas’

    if my records are up-to-date, dwd is vetoing it

  63. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm -1ing Reactions then, because I agree with Dave on a new-Council-resubmission being formally problematic, and because of the fastening movement

  64. Ge0rG also got a little AOB

  65. jonas’

    I’m also -1 on Reactions now for the same reasons as stated by Ge0rG, but I’ll consider a resubmission if and only if Fastenings isn’t turning out useful.

  66. daniel

    fwiw as the one who brought it back to the table and the only one who voted +1 i'm fine with your decisions and i agree with them

  67. Zash

    This is fine.

  68. Kev

    I am trying to maintain momentum here, and if that stops, do chase me.

  69. daniel

    i'm not going to change my own vote (doesn’t matter anyway) - but i agree with it

  70. larma

    Given that it at least brough movement in the fastening discussion again, I am fine as well.

  71. larma

    (fyi, not that it really matters)

  72. Kev

    My offer remains that once Fastening has stabilised a bit I'm willing to try to update the Reactions proposal to reduce the pain on the authors.

  73. dwd

    larmaIt does matter, and I'm glad you're seeing progress.

  74. jonas’

    Zash, "this is fine"?

  75. jonas’

    (you’re still technically on-list)

  76. dwd

    jonas’, That mem with the dog in the burning cafe?

  77. jonas’

    dwd, maybe

  78. Zash

    jonas’, does it matter if I say +0 or nothing while you're vetoing it?

  79. jonas’

    Zash, it matters in the count of expired votes ;)

  80. dwd

    Zash, It means the vote doesn't timeout if you +0 it.

  81. Kev

    I think it kinda does matter that Council are expressing their votes, even when they won't effect a different result.

  82. jonas’

    ok, moving on then.

  83. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  84. jonas’

    I guess it doesn’t make sense to have a meeting on the 25th

  85. jonas’

    I’d be available on Jan 1st, but I don’t know what about you folks.

  86. daniel

    i'm ok with the 1st

  87. Ge0rG

    most probably not.

  88. jonas’

    I’d also be available on any day in week 1 (30th -- 3rd) if 1st isn’t working out but any other date would

  89. dwd

    I doubt I'd remember on the 1st.

  90. dwd

    I could do the 2nd just fine though.

  91. daniel

    push it to the 2nd?

  92. Zash

    2nd is probably fine for me too

  93. daniel

    because i don’t wont to skip two times

  94. dwd

    And as ever, I'm totally open to changing the time if that's a problem for anyone.

  95. jonas’

    does Jan 2nd usual time usual place work for everyone?

  96. jonas’

    i.e. 2020-01-02 16:00Z?

  97. dwd


  98. daniel


  99. Ge0rG

    probably not, but that's not reason not to do it

  100. jonas’


  101. jonas’

    Next meeting is officially at 2020-01-02 16:00Z in this channel.

  102. Zash


  103. jonas’

    6) Any other Business?

  104. jonas’

    Please note that the votes on the ProtoXEP will expire before the next meeting

  105. jonas’

    Ge0rG had a small AOB, so he’s up next

  106. Ge0rG

    thanks, jonas’

  107. Ge0rG

    I just wanted to say that MattJ and me have been implementing XEP-0401 today, with some small deviations, and that the PoC looks good

  108. Ge0rG

    also Zash, who created the foundation for it, thanks very much

  109. jonas’

    XEP-0401: Easy User Onboarding

  110. jonas’


  111. jonas’

    that’s amazing

  112. jonas’

    anything else?

  113. Ge0rG


  114. jonas’

    any other any other business?

  115. dwd

    None more from me.

  116. dwd

    No more from me.

  117. jonas’

    7) Ite, Meeting Est

  118. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  119. dwd

    Thanks jonas’

  120. Zash


  121. jonas’

    thanks to Kev and dwd specifically for putting in the Fastening effort, thanks to larma for the patience and thanks to Ge0rG and MattJ for the work on '401

  122. Ge0rG


  123. Kev

    Eating Meeting Yeast.

  124. jonas’

    have nice holidays and a Guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr

  125. jonas’

    I also live-updated the Spreadsheet of Doom if anyone is interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANu9KGmNf2r-qpLYqF7NdJTtqA1GIu55rf2deKbM0GA/edit?usp=sharing

  126. Ge0rG

    Zash: it's not too late to vote!

  127. Zash

    How2decide things

  128. jonas’

    said the council member

  129. Ge0rG


  130. Ge0rG


  131. Ge0rG


  132. Ge0rG


  133. Ge0rG


  134. Ge0rG


  135. Ge0rG


  136. Zash

    Ge0rG, make a thing where you shake the phone to provide randomness for that

  137. Ge0rG

    Zash: there used to be a dice rolling app for Android where you had to shake your phone to trigger the dice rolling.

  138. Zash

    jonas’, eh, fine, -1, your condition, until an update

  139. Zash

    "rageshake" is a thing apparently

  140. jonas’


  141. Zash

    I'm happy that the thing is moving forward