XMPP Council - 2020-02-12

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  53. Ge0rG

    It's the day.

  54. jonas’

    it is

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  56. dwd

    'tis nearly the hour.

  57. jonas’

    that, too

  58. jonas’

    dwd, are you feeling better?

  59. dwd

    Well, mostly the antibiotics now. But those stopped today, so should be normalish by tomorrow.

  60. jonas’

    that’s good to hear

  61. jonas’

    'tis time

  62. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  63. dwd waves

  64. jonas’

    I sense a Ge0rG

  65. daniel


  66. Ge0rG is there

  67. jonas’

    alrigth, that’s a quorum

  68. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  69. jonas’

    I note that I forgot about the of Bookmarks 2 which ends today, so we should probably briefly talk about that, too

  70. jonas’

    any other additions?

  71. dwd

    None from me.

  72. Zash

    Here, just sitting down

  73. Ge0rG

    Damn, I also totally forgot about Bookmarks 2.

  74. jonas’

    3) Items for a Vote

  75. jonas’

    3a) Issue a Last Call for XEP-0398 Title: User Avatar to vCard-Based Avatars Conversion URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0398.html Nominated-By: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-January/ 036914.html Abstract: This specification describes a method for using PEP based avatars and vCard based avatars in parallel by having the user’s server do a conversion between the two.

  76. jonas’

    3a) Issue a Last Call for XEP-0398 Title: User Avatar to vCard-Based Avatars Conversion URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0398.html Nominated-By: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-January/036914.html Abstract: This specification describes a method for using PEP based avatars and vCard based avatars in parallel by having the user’s server do a conversion between the two.

  77. jonas’

    I’m +1 on that one

  78. dwd

    +1 for a Last Call. Fairly confident it can get through.

  79. daniel

    +1 for lc

  80. Ge0rG

    +1 for LC

  81. Zash

    Sure, +1

  82. jonas’


  83. jonas’

    3b) End of LC for XEP-0402

  84. jonas’

    I think there was list feedback which should be addressed by the author.

  85. daniel

    I think there is feedback

  86. dwd

    There was list feedback, I shall address it if JC doesn't beat me to it.

  87. jonas’

    even if no substantial changes are to be made, rationales for decisions need to be put in the document IMO so that they are discoverable.

  88. daniel

    But manageable feedback

  89. jonas’

    so nothing to vote on from our side at this point, the editor will issue another LC once the update gets in

  90. dwd

    I'm mildly concerned that part of the feedback was adding password back in - so as author I'd rather see a second LC.

  91. dwd


  92. jonas’

    also, the editor will change the title of the XEP with the next update, if nobody comes up with a better suggestion than "Atomic Bookmarks in Private PEP Storage" it’ll be that one.

  93. Ge0rG

    dwd: because you will implement that feedback?

  94. dwd

    It's unclear to me what we do about the request from Flow to have sundry metadata included.

  95. jonas’

    (sundry = unspecified diverse other things?)

  96. dwd

    Ge0rG, Yes, I think so - adding password back in seems to have general consensus.

  97. dwd

    jonas’, Yes, sorry. Generic metadata containment.

  98. Ge0rG

    I vaguely remember having issues regarding backward compatibility requirements, which felt weeker than in 0411.

  99. jonas’

    dwd, I think that the document needs to clearly say what happens to unspecified elements, since the elements pass through many entities

  100. jonas’

    (and clients may "re-write" entries)

  101. dwd


  102. dwd

    But all this can be sorted on list.

  103. jonas’


  104. jonas’

    let’s do that

  105. daniel

    Yes I didn't voice that on list (yet). But I also agree that password should be added

  106. daniel

    Even though I don't like passwords

  107. daniel

    Otherwise we simply don't have an upgrade path

  108. jonas’

    4) Outstanding Votes

  109. jonas’

    none that I know of

  110. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  111. dwd

    FWIW, it breaks on of my own rules of trying to impose things via a new protocol. Bind2 does the same in different ways and annoys me because of it.

  112. Ge0rG

    +1W most probably won't work for me.

  113. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  114. Zash

    +1w wfm

  115. jonas’

    Ge0rG, noted, thanks

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  117. jonas’

    moving on

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  119. jonas’

    6) AOB

  120. daniel

    None from me

  121. jonas’

    none from me, anyone else?

  122. Zash


  123. Ge0rG

    I'm pondering about better titles for 402

  124. Ge0rG

    Atomic has a... nuclear ring to it

  125. dwd

    I really don't care about what we call it all that much. Though I'm apparently a lot more in favour of silliness than most.

  126. jonas’

    I mostly think of std::atomic<T>

  127. jonas’

    dwd, I’m in favour of peace, and this isn’t a hill for me (Editor) to die on ;)

  128. Ge0rG

    maybe "Atomic bookmarks in PEP" does convey the best message

  129. dwd

    jonas’, Likewise.

  130. Ge0rG

    We need to think of our target audience, which is developers

  131. jonas’


  132. Ge0rG

    and it needs to be more attractive than Bookmarks.

  133. jonas’

    we can blow this up. "Atomic Peer Metadata in Private PEP Storage"

  134. daniel

    Can we end the council session before bike shedding that?

  135. Zash

    Bookmarks 2 ✔️

  136. daniel

    I don't think that it is councils job

  137. jonas’

    daniel, we certainly can

  138. jonas’

    7) Ite Meeting Est

  139. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  140. Zash


  141. dwd

    daniel, I was trying to come up with a name that included bikeshed, indeed.

  142. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  143. jonas’

    the editor shall duely issue an LC for XEP-0398 now

  144. Ge0rG

    Maybe "Bookmarks 2" isn't that bad after all. It has a clear and short message

  145. Ge0rG watches jonas’ switching hats

  146. Zash

    XEP-0317: Hats

  147. Zash

    We need it!

  148. Ge0rG

    jonas’: pedantic me claims that the LC for 0402 isn't over yet.

  149. jonas’

    Ge0rG, so?

  150. jonas’

    did I say it was?

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  152. Ge0rG

    Hm. No.

  153. jonas’


  154. jonas’

    I am aware that its end is very muddy

  155. jonas’

    and I’d like to change the template, but that darn 14 day rule is making everything annoying

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  157. Ge0rG

    which template?

  158. jonas’

    for LCs

  159. Ge0rG

    the email template?

  160. jonas’


  161. jonas’

    instead of "close of business" (in which timezone?!)

  162. jonas’

    to something more clearly defined

  163. dwd

    Whichever timezone suits us, mostly.

  164. jonas’

    (like 6h before the council session on $date)

  165. pep.

    fwiw, I don't consider any of our bookmark XEP bookmarks atm. They're syncing mechanisms as long as "autojoin" is in there

  166. jonas’

    most of the things we do are syncing mechanisms

  167. jonas’

    the roster is, for example

  168. dwd

    Right, but the 14 days means that we cover 3 weeks between Council voting for LC and Council handling the LC outcome.

  169. jonas’

    MAM most certainly is

  170. jonas’

    dwd, yeah, that’s kind of annoying

  171. jonas’

    I’d like to make it 13 ½ days ;)

  172. pep.

    jonas’, I'd like to have a dumb JID/URI list that I can call bookmakrs :(

  173. pep.

    jonas’, I'd like to have a dumb JID/URI list that I can call bookmarks :(

  174. pep.

    We're going to have other ways to sync anyway, see Inbox, or whatever else is coming

  175. Ge0rG

    jonas’: but then you need to issue the LC right after the Council meeting, not the next day.

  176. jonas’

    Ge0rG, which is *generally* not an issue

  177. jonas’

    though, all of this is typically moot because most of the time we don’t agree on a LC in a single session

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  182. dwd

    We generally agree on LC's. Not advancement, though.

  183. jonas’


  184. jonas’

    sometimes people aren’t there tho

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