XMPP Council - 2020-04-15

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15:00:00 jonas’ 1) Roll Call
15:00:12 Ge0rG is still hanging in a conference call
15:00:13 daniel Hi
15:00:36 jonas’ pinging Zash
15:00:42 Zash Here
15:00:43 jonas’ also, hi everyone :)
15:00:52 jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
15:00:55 jonas’ any additions?
15:01:03 moparisthebest has left
15:01:50 Zash I can't think of anything.
15:02:10 jonas’ sorry, got distracted reading daves email
15:02:15 jonas’ 3) Editor’s Report
15:02:21 jonas’ - Expired calls: None - Calls in progress: - LC for XEP-0357 (Push notifications) ends at 2020-04-15 - New ProtoXEP: Room Activity Indicators
15:02:24 jonas’ by now, the LC has expired
15:02:28 jonas’ 4) Items for Voting
15:02:33 jonas’ 4a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Room Activity Indicators URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/room-activity-indicators.html Abstract: This specification describes a lightweight mechanism for activity notifications in MUCs.
15:02:47 Ge0rG And I forgot to read and comment on the Push thread.
15:02:59 daniel On list
15:03:04 jonas’ on list
15:03:08 Ge0rG on list
15:03:09 Zash on List
15:03:12 jonas’ alright
15:03:28 jonas’ 4b) PR#924 Title: Change service discovery flow to use account instead of server URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/924 Description: The rationale for this is that blocking is an account-level feature. It may not be offered for all accounts, even if the server supports it.
15:03:32 jonas’ I expect some controversy on this one
15:03:56 Zash Muh backwards compat!
15:04:44 Ge0rG very controversial indeed
15:04:53 Ge0rG on-list
15:04:59 jonas’ I default to +1
15:05:34 Kev For hysterical raisins, you often disco your server's JID to find out what's supported for your current session.
15:05:47 jonas’ I’d like to gradually change that
15:06:12 Kev I don't think doing so prohibits returning the right results to the right entity, so I think that the motivation listed here doesn't lead to this patch as a result (although other motivations may).
15:06:14 Zash I like the general pattern of disco#info going to the same as the rest of the protocol
15:06:37 jonas’ Zash, to the same what?
15:06:56 Zash JID.
15:07:01 jonas’ ah, that
15:07:08 daniel +0
15:07:10 Zash Packet loss somewhere between brain and keyboard.
15:07:11 jonas’ Kev, so in my puristic view, disco#info for an entity should look the same no matter who’s asking (* conditions apply).
15:07:28 daniel I'm not very on board with changing draft xeps
15:07:34 Zash I think I'll have to on-list and stew for a while.
15:07:47 Kev Maybe, but the first two XEPs that I picked at 'random' to check (191, 258) show the same behaviour of advertising on the server JID.
15:07:50 daniel Even though what the PR is doing would be 'more correct'
15:08:08 Kev So I think changing one XEP in isolation is probably not the right thing to do here without wider thought.
15:08:29 jonas’ I guess we’ll have to take this to the list for the wider community then
15:08:35 Zash Sounds good.
15:08:39 jonas’ fine by me
15:09:09 jonas’ So I’d like to cancel the vote so that we’re not bound to the 2w timeline on this starting today after community feedback.
15:09:19 daniel Ok
15:09:33 jonas’ alright, moving on
15:09:41 jonas’ 4c) Decide on Advancement of XEP-0357: Push Notifications URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html Abstract: This specification defines a way for an XMPP servers to deliver information for use in push notifications to mobile and other devices.
15:09:51 daniel -1
15:09:56 jonas’ daniel, rationale?
15:10:11 jonas’ -1, I think the arguments brought up against this using PubSub syntax and that making it unnecessarily hard to understand are sound and this needs work.
15:10:23 daniel Feedback came up that hasn't been addressed
15:10:38 jonas’ so back to experimental with this one
15:10:41 jonas’ is anyone taking ownership of it?
15:10:49 jonas’ Kev, ?
15:10:52 jonas’ do you have resources to shepherd it?
15:11:03 jonas’ (and/or can you get lance to do it)
15:11:10 daniel As I said on list it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to just start from scratch
15:11:14 Kev I haven't even replied to the LC myself.
15:11:28 jonas’ Kev, you’re an author though, which is why I’m asking you :)
15:11:31 Kev Lance wanted to retire from this one.
15:11:36 jonas’ alright
15:11:46 daniel Not that I'm volunteering to do so. But that makes the question of ownership unnecessary
15:12:09 Kev Yeah, I meant as an illustration of time for this. Lance wanted another author listed so he could avoid doing things. I thought I'd be spending time working with it, so volunteered, but have ended up not touching it since.
15:12:24 jonas’ OK
15:12:33 jonas’ it would be good to get someone actually involved with implementations around this to do the work
15:12:42 Kev Indeed.
15:12:43 jonas’ that’d be mobile client devs and server devs primarily
15:13:02 Zash I have conveniently not touched this for years, so not it! /me hides
15:13:05 Kev Both of which I am, obviously, but am very short of cycles at the moment.
15:13:16 jonas’ getting some input from the Xabber folks would also be good
15:13:22 daniel Well the tigase people introduced something at summit. We should probably encourage them to actually write that down in xep Form
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15:13:55 jonas’ daniel, you’re probably more familiar with that than I am, and also conveniently a mobile dev; can you contact them and figure out if they will do that, and if they won’t, post a call to standards@ for someone to do it?
15:14:11 daniel Yes
15:14:13 jonas’ thank you
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15:15:26 jonas’ alright, moving on
15:15:33 jonas’ 5) Pending Votes
15:15:38 jonas’ Dave cleared his off the list in the last mail
15:16:09 jonas’ He made valid points about PR#913 and I’m going to fix that up and re-propose it.
15:16:09 moparisthebest has left
15:16:15 jonas’ other than that, we’re good to go I think.
15:16:41 jonas’ 6) Date of Next
15:17:12 jonas’ +1w wfm
15:17:16 daniel Wfm
15:17:23 Zash works for me
15:18:02 jonas’ 7) AOB
15:18:07 jonas’ none from me
15:18:09 daniel I remembered what I wanted to do last week. Ask editor to please LC XEP-0320: Use of DTLS-SRTP in Jingle Sessions XEP-0339: Source-Specific Media Attributes in Jingle
15:18:44 jonas’ who’ll shepherd that?
15:18:58 jonas’ or do you have contact to Philipp Hancke?
15:19:17 daniel He has been somewhat active on the list lately
15:19:39 daniel But I think they will be rather uncontroversial and just go through
15:19:50 daniel It's just meta data annotations
15:20:01 jonas’ by default, only the approving body or the author can request an LC; in the absence of the author, we need a shepherd. and we’re past the voting stage for today
15:20:23 jonas’ not sure what to make of that
15:20:43 daniel OK. Put it on the agenda for next week
15:20:57 daniel I thought Editor could call them
15:21:00 jonas’ daniel, if you can get Philipp to ask the Editor to LC them before that, we can start it early.
15:21:04 jonas’ from my reading of '1 not
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15:21:20 jonas’ oh wait
15:21:21 jonas’ > The Approving Body must agree that the XEP is ready to be considered for advancement.
15:21:30 jonas’ nevermind me, so, we need to vote on this
15:21:32 jonas’ putting it up for next week
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15:21:52 jonas’ Thanks
15:21:54 jonas’ anything else?
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15:23:26 jonas’ assuming not
15:23:34 jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est
15:23:37 jonas’ Thanks everyone
15:23:46 Zash Thanks all
15:24:18 daniel Thanks
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