XMPP Council - 2020-05-20

  1. sonny has left

  2. sonny has joined

  3. bear has left

  4. sonny has left

  5. sonny has joined

  6. bear has joined

  7. stpeter has joined

  8. Wojtek has left

  9. undefined has left

  10. undefined has joined

  11. undefined has left

  12. undefined has joined

  13. undefined has left

  14. undefined has joined

  15. undefined has left

  16. undefined has joined

  17. undefined has left

  18. undefined has joined

  19. sonny has left

  20. sonny has joined

  21. undefined has left

  22. undefined has joined

  23. undefined has left

  24. undefined has joined

  25. stpeter has left

  26. stpeter has joined

  27. sonny has left

  28. sonny has joined

  29. stpeter has left

  30. undefined has left

  31. undefined has joined

  32. Tobias has joined

  33. sonny has left

  34. sonny has joined

  35. paul has joined

  36. undefined has left

  37. undefined has joined

  38. undefined has left

  39. undefined has joined

  40. sonny has left

  41. sonny has joined

  42. undefined has left

  43. undefined has joined

  44. undefined has left

  45. undefined has joined

  46. undefined has left

  47. undefined has joined

  48. undefined has left

  49. undefined has joined

  50. larma has left

  51. larma has joined

  52. flow has joined

  53. jc has joined

  54. sonny has left

  55. sonny has joined

  56. jc has left

  57. debacle has joined

  58. kusoneko has left

  59. kusoneko has joined

  60. kusoneko has left

  61. kusoneko has joined

  62. paul has left

  63. paul has joined

  64. debacle has left

  65. kusoneko has left

  66. kusoneko has joined

  67. paul has left

  68. paul has joined

  69. debacle has joined

  70. Guus has left

  71. Guus has joined

  72. sonny has left

  73. sonny has joined

  74. kusoneko has left

  75. debacle has left

  76. sonny has left

  77. sonny has joined

  78. undefined has left

  79. undefined has joined

  80. debacle has joined

  81. stpeter has joined

  82. jonas’


  83. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  84. Zash

    Good morning

  85. Ge0rG

    Good morning everyone

  86. dwd

    Good afternoon.

  87. daniel has joined

  88. daniel


  89. jonas’

    full house, nice!

  90. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  91. jonas’

    anything I misksed?

  92. jonas’

    anything I missed?

  93. Ge0rG


  94. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update

  95. kusoneko has joined

  96. jonas’

    - Calls in progress: - LC for XEP-0393 (ends at 2020-05-26) - Expired/Expiring calls: - LC for XEP-0320 (ends today!) - LC for XEP-0339 (ends today!)

  97. jonas’

    %s/ends today/ended yesterday/g

  98. jonas’

    4) Items for Voting

  99. jonas’

    4a) Decide on Advancement of XEP-0339 Title: Source-Specific Media Attributes in Jingle URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0339.html Abstract: This specification provides an XML mapping for translating the RFC 5766 Source-Specific Media Attributes from SDP to Jingle

  100. jonas’

    the LC expired

  101. daniel


  102. jonas’

    with very sparse feedback

  103. jonas’

    but the feedback was thoroughly positive, so +1

  104. daniel

    the feedback we had was positive

  105. daniel

    and it is a very niche topic

  106. jonas’

    also, two independent implementations would make this ripe even for final

  107. dwd

    +1 from me to for much the same reason.

  108. Zash


  109. jonas’

    Ge0rG, ?

  110. Ge0rG


  111. Ge0rG


  112. jonas’


  113. susmit88 has left

  114. jonas’

    4b) Decide on Advancement of XEP-0320 Title: Use of DTLS-SRTP in Jingle Sessions URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0320.html Abstract: This specification defines how to use DTLS-SRTP (RFC 5763) in the Jingle application type for the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) as a way to negotiate media path key agreement for secure RTP in one-to-one media sessions.

  115. Ge0rG

    also on-list

  116. jonas’

    similar amount and kind of feedback

  117. jonas’

    again +1

  118. daniel

    +1 (few but positive feedback)

  119. dwd

    Same deal, +1.

  120. Ge0rG

    I've also missed both LCs :(

  121. Zash


  122. jonas’


  123. jonas’

    5) Outstanding Votes

  124. jonas’

    I didn’t update the SoD much since last week, but I think there are still some

  125. jonas’

    on the channel binding spec

  126. Ge0rG

    So much red

  127. jonas’

    we should probably discuss if me vetoing it is exaggerated

  128. Zash

    I'd be okay with it if the changes mentioned on the list were applied.

  129. dwd waves AOB flag.

  130. jonas’

    dwd, in context of this?

  131. daniel

    jonas’, do you agree that 'florians proposal' would be better?

  132. daniel

    or good enough?

  133. jonas’

    daniel, yes

  134. dwd

    jonas’, No, it just reminded me.

  135. jonas’

    I think I said so on list, too

  136. daniel

    i think in that case it doesn’t really matter

  137. daniel

    because i think we all want the xep to change in that direction

  138. daniel

    and Sam should just change it. imho

  139. dwd

    daniel, We do (even though I've not veto'd).

  140. jonas’

    does "we all" include Sam though?

  141. daniel

    and then jonas’ can un-veto

  142. jonas’

    either way, let’s get this under the XSF umbrella and fix things there.

  143. jonas’

    +1 on Channelbinding pseudomechanisms, in the hope that it’ll get fixed to not be pseudomechansims

  144. Zash

    +1, what jonas’ said

  145. jonas’

    dwd, I can’t find your vote on-list, you said you were +1?

  146. dwd

    I believe I did say as much, yes.

  147. jonas’

    thanks, Ge0rG ?

  148. dwd

    Although where I can't recall.

  149. jonas’

    dwd, this shall do

  150. Ge0rG

    jonas’: is my non-vote blocking progress?

  151. jonas’

    Ge0rG, no, it expires today

  152. jonas’

    but I wanted to give you a chance to veto

  153. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'm aware of that.

  154. dwd

    But for the record, +1 although with the understanding we'll fix it in Experimental.

  155. jonas’

    if you don’t want to vote that’s fine and we can move on to AOB

  156. Zash

    I sent a vote on the FROM_TYPE thing to the list yesterday

  157. SamWhited

    Quickly injecting: I probably won't change the current draft. If you want to immediately deprecate/obsolete it that's fine, but I'd like it documented and would appreciate it if you'd still accept it. I will likely continue to use pseudomechanisms in my deployment because they're working just fine and so far I haven't had a single problem with them so having them documented somewhere would be nice.

  158. jonas’

    Zash, saw taht

  159. jonas’


  160. jonas’

    I retract my +1

  161. SamWhited

    I may start a separate document since it seems clear that no one else likes pseudomechanisms, or I may not, I still haven't finished the other suggestion to see how well it works.

  162. dwd

    SamWhited, You don't own the current spec. So if your intent is to refuse updates I'll veto it now and save us the bother.

  163. jonas’


  164. jonas’

    I don’t see a point with that

  165. daniel

    SamWhited, huh? what’s the issue with 'Florians' proposal?

  166. SamWhited

    dwd: fair enough. I would appreciate if people would accept it and immediately obsolete it, but I suppose there's no point in the XSF owning it either

  167. daniel

    SamWhited, huh? what’s the issue with 'Florians proposal'?

  168. jonas’

    I’m back to -1.

  169. dwd

    SamWhited, The XSF isn't a Wiki. :-)

  170. jonas’

    the rationale I’ve given on-list in https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-May/037388.html, also a clear statement of the author that they don’t want to change that document to fix things.

  171. SamWhited

    dwd: I thought we did something like the IETF does where we sometimes just document unrecommended or proprietary things that most stuff shouldn't implement but is good to have written down in case others want to be compatible with eg. a closed service liek HipChat?

  172. jonas’

    SamWhited, we *do* have wiki.xmpp.org

  173. SamWhited

    daniel: I'm not sure, it may be fine. I need to go back and summarize the thread and decide.

  174. jonas’

    Sam can repropose the document if he decides to change it. If and why and how can be discussed in a different venue, since we have an AOB pending.

  175. jonas’

    6) AOB

  176. jonas’ hands the mic to dwd

  177. dwd

    Yes! Some good news, Sam's password storage draft has been adopted as a Working Group draft.

  178. Zash


  179. jonas’


  180. daniel

    which one?

  181. dwd

    It was "individual", it's now a formal product of the IETF.

  182. SamWhited

    Now only 10 years or so before it can actually be published as an RFC :) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/

  183. dwd

    daniel, kitten

  184. SamWhited

    I think Robbie is going to put out a call for adoption for the channel binding one in kitten too, just waiting to hear back from him on that one.

  185. dwd


  186. dwd

    So anyway, that was it. Really pleased that's happened, and hopefully we'll get some useful input from that.

  187. jonas’

    Any other AOB?

  188. Ge0rG

    any news on that routing sprint?

  189. jonas’

    right, I forgot to send out the planning mail

  190. jonas’

    I shall do so tomorrow

  191. jonas’

    the weekend was not as quiet as I hoped for

  192. Ge0rG

    they never are

  193. jonas’

    true words

  194. jonas’

    and with that

  195. Zash

    weekend starts now!

  196. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  197. jonas’

    Zash, INDEED!

  198. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  199. Zash

    Thanks yall

  200. dwd

    Thanks jonas’!

  201. Ge0rG

    jonas’: you forgot an important thing, #7

  202. dwd

    Ge0rG, We're never having another meeting now.

  203. Ge0rG

    dwd: that's good. No need to tell everybody that I might not make the next two meetings, then.

  204. jonas’


  205. dwd

    You going anywhere nice?

  206. jonas’


  207. jonas’

    7) Date of Next

  208. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  209. Ge0rG

    dwd: not to Denmark, unfortunately.

  210. Zash

    +1w wfm

  211. Ge0rG

    +3w wfm

  212. dwd

    +1w WFM.

  213. jonas’

    Ge0rG, so you’re skipping two weeks? will you be able to vote on list?

  214. daniel


  215. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I might or might not make the actual meetings, and I'll probably be able to vote on list

  216. jonas’


  217. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est For Real

  218. jonas’

    thanks again

  219. kusoneko has left

  220. kusoneko has joined

  221. kusoneko has left

  222. kusoneko has joined

  223. Wojtek has joined

  224. sonny has left

  225. sonny has joined

  226. debacle has left

  227. sonny has left

  228. sonny has joined

  229. robertooo has left

  230. robertooo has joined

  231. debacle has joined

  232. debacle has left

  233. debacle has joined

  234. daniel has left

  235. daniel has joined

  236. daniel has left

  237. daniel has joined

  238. paul has left

  239. kusoneko has left

  240. kusoneko has joined

  241. kusoneko has left

  242. kusoneko has joined

  243. robertooo has left

  244. Tobias has left

  245. daniel has left

  246. daniel has joined

  247. sonny has left

  248. sonny has joined

  249. daniel has left

  250. daniel has joined

  251. sonny has left

  252. sonny has joined

  253. debacle has left

  254. debacle has joined

  255. sonny has left

  256. sonny has joined

  257. sonny has left

  258. sonny has joined

  259. sonny has left

  260. stpeter has left

  261. stpeter has joined