XMPP Council - 2020-06-10

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  103. jonas’ 'tis time
  104. jonas’ 1) Roll Call
  105. Zash Here
  106. jonas’
  107. daniel here
  108. jonas’ quorum!
  109. jonas’ do we get a Ge0rG or a dwd maybe?
  110. dwd EHLO
  111. Ge0rG Yes we do!
  112. Zash Full house!
  113. jonas’ 500 Missing Hostname
  114. daniel wrong protocol
  115. jonas’ closes connection to dwd
  116. dwd Oh. Shit.
  117. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashingf
  118. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  119. jonas’ I assume none
  120. jonas’ 3) Editor’s update - Expiring calls - CFE for XEP-0050 (ended on 2020-06-09)
  121. jonas’ 4) Items for Voting
  122. jonas’ I did not include the advancement vote of '0050 in here, because I presume that we’ll have more discussion about that in 4b. If anyone wants to have the vote on advancing '0050 to Final in this meeting either way, please speak up now.
  123. jonas’ assuming no, but you can still raise your voice until we’ve gotten past 4b
  124. jonas’ moving on
  125. jonas’ 4a) PR#959: XEP-0156: reorganize stating XRD/JRD requirements URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/959 Abstract: The reference to RFC 6120 was incorrect, what this really meant is RFC 6415. But instead of simply s/RFC 6120/RFC 6415/ here, I decided to reorganize stating the requirements of XRD and JRD a little.
  126. daniel +1
  127. jonas’ I’m not quite sure if this adds new requirements on implementations, or if those are already implicit in RFC 6415
  128. Zash On list.
  129. daniel like what?
  130. Ge0rG I'm not sure because it removes a "REQUIRED" and adds a "SHOULD
  131. jonas’ daniel, XML MUST, JSON SHOULD
  132. jonas’ oh, no, it doesn’t change anything
  133. jonas’ I can’t read.
  134. jonas’ so, yeah, it moves from MUST XML to SHOULD XML, and SHOULD JSON to MAY JSON.
  135. jonas’ I’m not quite sure what the point of that is
  136. jonas’ flow, are you around?
  137. jonas’ this seems odd to me, because now clients have to effectively support both since a service may opt to do no XML but JSON.
  138. daniel fair. I retract my +1. I didn’t see that
  139. jonas’ barring a magical appearance of flow, I’m on-list
  140. jonas’ any word from dwd?
  141. flow around
  142. Ge0rG I'm also on-list then. I suppose that if we fix the new language to keep the old MUST/SHOULD, I'd be fine
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  144. jonas’ same as Ge0rG from my side
  145. daniel > I suppose that if we fix the new language to keep the old MUST/SHOULD, I'd be fine yes
  146. jonas’ flow, ah, good, can you comment?
  147. flow reading the change
  148. dwd Yeah, I'll do a -1 on the basis that we've changed normative requirements.
  149. flow ahh I see
  150. dwd (But I can be argued out of it).
  151. jonas’ dwd, without context, that sounds odd and I think you wanted to add a "without good reason" :)
  152. flow can change
  153. dwd jonas’, Sorry, in full:
  154. jonas’ flow, excellent, then we’ll postpone this to next week
  155. jonas’ and I’ll cancel the vote
  156. flow but given that there is no feature negotion about this
  157. flow a MUST did not appears necessary
  158. Ge0rG https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6415#section-3 reads like a MUST for XML
  159. flow what I wanted to express is that you are not allowed to do JRD alone, without XRD
  160. dwd jonas’, -1 on the basis that we have changed normative requirements such that it is unclear what a consumer of the record need to implement to ensure interoperability.
  161. flow but a MUST is probably clearer
  162. jonas’ flow, that is not at all clear from the text, please fix that
  163. jonas’ okay, moving on
  164. jonas’ 4b) PR#598: XEP-0050: Try to clarify usage of 'execute' URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/598 Abstract: The "execute" dilemma of XEP-0050.
  165. jonas’ I added wording to the PR compared to last week using my editor superpowers
  166. jonas’ specifically, I added this: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/598/commits/fc14df1d8d49a065115cb4549e66e243db4b6ce3 (note that this only shows a subset of the total changes the PR introduces)
  167. jonas’ (full changes are here: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/598/files )
  168. jonas’ I think this is the best we can do and I am +1 on this as-is.
  169. daniel on list
  170. Zash on list
  171. Ge0rG +1
  172. dwd I think I'm +1 on this. Though we're deep into "least harm" territory, and I'll be interested in what others have to say.
  173. jonas’ agreed
  174. jonas’ since we’re considering adopting this, the advancement vote shall be postponed with another CFE later inbetween.
  175. jonas’ 5) Outstanding votes
  176. jonas’ Ge0rG, I think you have quite a few, unless I’m behind on the mailing list mails.
  177. jonas’ oh, I am actually
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  179. Ge0rG jonas’: remember my inquiry about the origins of *bold* and _underline_ earlier today?
  180. dwd jonas’, Just on '50, I'm not sure that we *can* advance until people think (at least) that they implement the new version.
  181. Ge0rG jonas’: I catched up with two-weeks-ago, and I'm not sure there were any votes last week
  182. jonas’ dwd, yes, hence, later :)
  183. jonas’ Ge0rG, no, you’re good, I’ve got everything from you now
  184. Ge0rG phew.
  185. jonas’ thank you for that
  186. jonas’ 6) Date of Next
  187. jonas’ +1w wfm
  188. daniel +1w wfm
  189. Zash +1w wfm
  190. Ge0rG +1W WFM
  191. jonas’ excellent
  192. jonas’ 7) AOB
  193. jonas’ I have one regarding the Message Routing stuff.
  194. Ge0rG I've heard that pep. and flow have an AOB
  195. Ge0rG jonas’: I still didn't manage to do the doodle.
  196. jonas’ First I need to say mea culpa, because I got massively confused with dates and now more than half of the proposed timing lots is over.
  197. jonas’ Ge0rG, good thing is you only need to fill out like three days now.
  198. jonas’ Ge0rG, you have the nice opportunity to just pick one of the greenish slots onw
  199. jonas’ today would’ve worked great, but that’s not an option anymore, so I think Friday at 16:00 CEST is the only one we have left
  200. pep. Ge0rG, well I'm not sure :x
  201. jonas’ Ge0rG, would that work for you?
  202. Ge0rG jonas’: +1 for Friday 16:00 CEST
  203. pep. I'd like to sort out the hanging PR about 0157 for sure. I don't know what to take off the list thread
  204. jonas’ ok, I’ll try to send out an email after this meeting.
  205. Ge0rG pep.: I read the thread as a generally vague +1 with a hint to add a .well-known mapping
  206. jonas’ on the '157: My opinion is that dwd is absolutely correct and we should extend '68 to allow validation information.
  207. jonas’ (and also that dwd is correct in that we need a fixed registry)
  208. Ge0rG somebody should fix it
  209. jonas’ yeah, somebody should
  210. jonas’ hm, I should ping MattJ if we can set up old-eos as a build worker for docker images...
  211. jonas’ anyways
  212. jonas’ pep., flow, I think the best way forward would be to update '68 and then update '157
  213. flow I like to suggest that we see registry and their entries as extensible, instead of explicitly marking them
  214. jonas’ the '157 PR can then stay as-is and we can apply it once '68 is patched.
  215. flow I mean this is a general thing, not limited to data forms
  216. jonas’ I’m hesitant about that, but an extended discussion should be continued on-list as pep suggested indeed.
  217. flow We will in the future most likely run into situations where an xep extends another xep, and its elements, which are potentially found in a registry
  218. jonas’ any other AOB?
  219. dwd flow, Registries aren't interoperable protocols, they're documents of record, and as such have different rules.
  220. flow dwd, sure, but what does that mean?
  221. dwd flow, Same argument, after all, applies the the XEP format itself.
  222. pep. (jonas’, is that what I suggested? :p)
  223. jonas’ pep., in fact, no, but I misread what you said, apologies
  224. jonas’ I’m not good at reading tonight
  225. jonas’ I still think that this is better suited for xsf@ or the list.
  226. pep. sure
  227. jonas’ assuming no other AOB:
  228. jonas’ 7) Ite Meeting Est
  229. dwd jonas’, Thanks!
  230. jonas’ thanks all, thanks Tedd
  231. Zash Tanks all
  232. jonas’ please move further discussion about the registry things to xsf@
  233. Ge0rG Thanks!
  234. jonas’ (or the list)
  235. flow FYI, i've updated the PR of 4a
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