XMPP Council - 2020-06-24

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  131. jonas’ 1) Roll Call
  132. Zash EHLO
  133. Ge0rG 302 Moved
  134. daniel Hi
  135. jonas’ no dwd?
  136. jonas’ fun, good thing I can chair
  137. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  138. jonas’ nothing? perfect
  139. jonas’ I’ll still give you a moment, because my MUA is acting up a lot
  140. jonas’ and I’m trying to open the agenda I sent :)
  141. Wojtek has joined
  142. jonas’ ok, the MUA does not seem to want to fix itself, so let’s try without
  143. jonas’ 3) Editor’s Update - Calls in progress - LC for XEP-0338 (ends on 2020-06-30)
  144. jonas’ (where "without" means I’ll be copy-typing from my phone)
  145. jonas’ 4) Items for voting
  146. jonas’ 4a) PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963
  147. jonas’ Concerns were raised to the Mailing list about this opening up a downgrade attack vector, which I didn’t have time to look into yet, so on-list
  148. jonas’ is anyone still here?
  149. Zash Yeeeees
  150. jonas’ or did muc.xmpp.org fail for everyone except me?
  151. Zash I guess that reflects reality, but on-list.
  152. Guus You're live.
  153. Ge0rG MUC reflection is a thing, isn't it?
  154. jonas’ Ge0rG, doesn’t help if there’s a very non-equally-distributed s2s failure :)
  155. Ge0rG I'm on-list as well, but I'd appreciate input from people who are into server development and into SASL and dialback things.
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  157. jonas’ I expect Zash to cover all that, except maybe being "into" dialback things.
  158. Zash > I guess that reflects reality
  159. Zash Except Dialback is very rare these days given the success of Let's Encrypt
  160. pep. LE doing dialback for us :-°
  161. jonas’ no comment from daniel?
  162. Zash Yeah, Dialback is equivalent ish to the verification LE does, so I don't think it's a downgrade attack
  163. daniel Sorry changing trains just no. Will read backlog in a second
  164. jonas’ if we assume that LE is being used
  165. Ge0rG both fail under the assumption that the attacker is on the network path between you and the other party, right?
  166. jonas’ so this certainly looks odd, because it mandates dialback if and only if the hostname did not match
  167. jonas’ Ge0rG, though LE uses multiple vantage points to make that harder
  168. daniel Or at least they will be?
  169. jonas’ maybe
  170. daniel I'm not sure it has been deployed yet
  171. jonas’ implementations details of LE are not of concern for the spec anyways
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  173. Ge0rG We got a dwd
  174. dwd Hello, sorry I'm late, got pulled into something last minute.
  175. dwd Are we still on 4a)?
  176. Ge0rG dwd: yes
  177. dwd OK, good.
  178. Ge0rG jonas’: I think we need to move that to the list
  179. jonas’ dwd, no worries
  180. jonas’ Ge0rG, I tend to agree
  181. Ge0rG maybe explicitly ask for input from server developers.
  182. jonas’ it would be nice if someone else could start a thread right away, because (a) my MUA is a mess right now and (b) I’ll be heading out right after this meeting
  183. Zash Wasn't there a thread already?
  184. Zash Can continue there
  185. dwd So I'm comfortably +1 on this, but really because whether an initiator decides to move onto Dialback (and whether a Receiver accepts it) isn't predicated on whether SASL EXTERNAL failed or not.
  186. dwd Also i looked for a thread on this earlier and couldn't spot one - what's the subject line?
  187. jonas’ I wasn’ta ware of a thread either
  188. Zash Subject: Re: [Standards] XMPP Council Agenda 2020-06-24
  189. jonas’ ah.
  190. jonas’ well
  191. Zash Well. Not a separate thread.
  192. dwd Ah-ha.
  193. Ge0rG it was just a single mail asking whether that's a downgrade attack
  194. jonas’ I suppose a separate thread would be more discoverable.
  195. dwd It's not a downgrade attack, but I'll explain there in more detail.
  196. jonas’ do we have a volunteer to start the thread or shall we delegate that to the editors?
  197. Ge0rG it would be great if somebody who's both a server developer and in Council could do that.
  198. dwd I'll start a thread.
  199. Zash dwd: But is it best practice?
  200. jonas’ dwd, thank you :)
  201. Ge0rG dwd: +1
  202. dwd Zash, I think whether it's "best" is largely irrelevant.
  203. jonas’ can we move on?
  204. Zash sure
  205. jonas’ or do you think there’s need to discuss this here?
  206. jonas’ taking that as a no
  207. dwd Let's move on.
  208. jonas’ 5) Outstanding Votes
  209. jonas’ I incorrectly accused dwd for having one
  210. jonas’ which I take the full blame for, I misread the doomsheet
  211. Ge0rG I've sent a -1 for PR #961
  212. jonas’ thanks
  213. jonas’ so we’re clear
  214. jonas’ 6) Date of Next
  215. Ge0rG I hope I'm out of old debt now, any only owe a vote for today's 4a
  216. jonas’ Ge0rG, you are
  217. Ge0rG +1W WFM
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  219. daniel +1w wfm
  220. jonas’ +1w most-likely wfm, #thankscorona
  221. Zash +1
  222. dwd +1WFM.
  223. jonas’ excellent
  224. jonas’ 7) AOB
  225. jonas’ dwd, any news on the video call? :)
  226. dwd Ah, yes. I remember that now.
  227. jonas’ I’ll take that as a "no" :)
  228. dwd I have scribbled.
  229. jonas’ I can’t properly interpret that verb
  230. dwd I have written something down to remind myself I need to arrange a time, URL, etc for a Council video chat.
  231. jonas’ ah, right
  232. jonas’ any other AOB?
  233. Zash None here.
  234. daniel No
  235. Ge0rG nope
  236. jonas’ thanks
  237. jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est
  238. jonas’ thank you everyone
  239. Ge0rG thank you jonas’
  240. Ge0rG thank you Tedd
  241. Ge0rG thank you everyone
  242. Zash Thanks all
  243. dwd Thanks jonas’ and Tedd.
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