XMPP Council - 2020-06-24

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  131. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  132. Zash


  133. Ge0rG

    302 Moved

  134. daniel


  135. jonas’

    no dwd?

  136. jonas’

    fun, good thing I can chair

  137. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  138. jonas’

    nothing? perfect

  139. jonas’

    I’ll still give you a moment, because my MUA is acting up a lot

  140. jonas’

    and I’m trying to open the agenda I sent :)

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  142. jonas’

    ok, the MUA does not seem to want to fix itself, so let’s try without

  143. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update - Calls in progress - LC for XEP-0338 (ends on 2020-06-30)

  144. jonas’

    (where "without" means I’ll be copy-typing from my phone)

  145. jonas’

    4) Items for voting

  146. jonas’

    4a) PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963

  147. jonas’

    Concerns were raised to the Mailing list about this opening up a downgrade attack vector, which I didn’t have time to look into yet, so on-list

  148. jonas’

    is anyone still here?

  149. Zash


  150. jonas’

    or did muc.xmpp.org fail for everyone except me?

  151. Zash

    I guess that reflects reality, but on-list.

  152. Guus

    You're live.

  153. Ge0rG

    MUC reflection is a thing, isn't it?

  154. jonas’

    Ge0rG, doesn’t help if there’s a very non-equally-distributed s2s failure :)

  155. Ge0rG

    I'm on-list as well, but I'd appreciate input from people who are into server development and into SASL and dialback things.

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  157. jonas’

    I expect Zash to cover all that, except maybe being "into" dialback things.

  158. Zash

    > I guess that reflects reality

  159. Zash

    Except Dialback is very rare these days given the success of Let's Encrypt

  160. pep.

    LE doing dialback for us :-°

  161. jonas’

    no comment from daniel?

  162. Zash

    Yeah, Dialback is equivalent ish to the verification LE does, so I don't think it's a downgrade attack

  163. daniel

    Sorry changing trains just no. Will read backlog in a second

  164. jonas’

    if we assume that LE is being used

  165. Ge0rG

    both fail under the assumption that the attacker is on the network path between you and the other party, right?

  166. jonas’

    so this certainly looks odd, because it mandates dialback if and only if the hostname did not match

  167. jonas’

    Ge0rG, though LE uses multiple vantage points to make that harder

  168. daniel

    Or at least they will be?

  169. jonas’


  170. daniel

    I'm not sure it has been deployed yet

  171. jonas’

    implementations details of LE are not of concern for the spec anyways

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  173. Ge0rG

    We got a dwd

  174. dwd

    Hello, sorry I'm late, got pulled into something last minute.

  175. dwd

    Are we still on 4a)?

  176. Ge0rG

    dwd: yes

  177. dwd

    OK, good.

  178. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I think we need to move that to the list

  179. jonas’

    dwd, no worries

  180. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I tend to agree

  181. Ge0rG

    maybe explicitly ask for input from server developers.

  182. jonas’

    it would be nice if someone else could start a thread right away, because (a) my MUA is a mess right now and (b) I’ll be heading out right after this meeting

  183. Zash

    Wasn't there a thread already?

  184. Zash

    Can continue there

  185. dwd

    So I'm comfortably +1 on this, but really because whether an initiator decides to move onto Dialback (and whether a Receiver accepts it) isn't predicated on whether SASL EXTERNAL failed or not.

  186. dwd

    Also i looked for a thread on this earlier and couldn't spot one - what's the subject line?

  187. jonas’

    I wasn’ta ware of a thread either

  188. Zash

    Subject: Re: [Standards] XMPP Council Agenda 2020-06-24

  189. jonas’


  190. jonas’


  191. Zash

    Well. Not a separate thread.

  192. dwd


  193. Ge0rG

    it was just a single mail asking whether that's a downgrade attack

  194. jonas’

    I suppose a separate thread would be more discoverable.

  195. dwd

    It's not a downgrade attack, but I'll explain there in more detail.

  196. jonas’

    do we have a volunteer to start the thread or shall we delegate that to the editors?

  197. Ge0rG

    it would be great if somebody who's both a server developer and in Council could do that.

  198. dwd

    I'll start a thread.

  199. Zash

    dwd: But is it best practice?

  200. jonas’

    dwd, thank you :)

  201. Ge0rG

    dwd: +1

  202. dwd

    Zash, I think whether it's "best" is largely irrelevant.

  203. jonas’

    can we move on?

  204. Zash


  205. jonas’

    or do you think there’s need to discuss this here?

  206. jonas’

    taking that as a no

  207. dwd

    Let's move on.

  208. jonas’

    5) Outstanding Votes

  209. jonas’

    I incorrectly accused dwd for having one

  210. jonas’

    which I take the full blame for, I misread the doomsheet

  211. Ge0rG

    I've sent a -1 for PR #961

  212. jonas’


  213. jonas’

    so we’re clear

  214. jonas’

    6) Date of Next

  215. Ge0rG

    I hope I'm out of old debt now, any only owe a vote for today's 4a

  216. jonas’

    Ge0rG, you are

  217. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

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  219. daniel

    +1w wfm

  220. jonas’

    +1w most-likely wfm, #thankscorona

  221. Zash


  222. dwd


  223. jonas’


  224. jonas’

    7) AOB

  225. jonas’

    dwd, any news on the video call? :)

  226. dwd

    Ah, yes. I remember that now.

  227. jonas’

    I’ll take that as a "no" :)

  228. dwd

    I have scribbled.

  229. jonas’

    I can’t properly interpret that verb

  230. dwd

    I have written something down to remind myself I need to arrange a time, URL, etc for a Council video chat.

  231. jonas’

    ah, right

  232. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  233. Zash

    None here.

  234. daniel


  235. Ge0rG


  236. jonas’


  237. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  238. jonas’

    thank you everyone

  239. Ge0rG

    thank you jonas’

  240. Ge0rG

    thank you Tedd

  241. Ge0rG

    thank you everyone

  242. Zash

    Thanks all

  243. dwd

    Thanks jonas’ and Tedd.

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