XMPP Council - 2020-07-29

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  83. Ge0rG

    If only somebody had warned us.

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  143. jonas’

    I may be late by a few minutes

  144. Ge0rG

    Let's see if we have anybody else, just to help the chair

  145. Zash

    Here, but so tired

  146. Ge0rG

    1) Roll Call

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  148. Ge0rG

    Looks like there is no dwd...

  149. Ge0rG


  150. jonas’


  151. jonas’

    thank you, Ge0rG

  152. Ge0rG

    hi jonas’, looks like we have a quorum, if Zash is more than half awake at least.

  153. jonas’

    let’s assume that he is

  154. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  155. jonas’

    any modifications?

  156. Ge0rG


  157. Zash


  158. jonas’

    3) Editor’s update

  159. jonas’

    congrats MattJ for getting 0.7.0 of XEP-0313 through the pipes

  160. jonas’

    4) Items for Voting

  161. jonas’

    4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.

  162. jonas’

    4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.

  163. jonas’

    so there was some list discussion on this and we should cast a vote

  164. jonas’

    I’m on-list though

  165. dwd has joined

  166. Ge0rG

    on-list is a sane default.

  167. Ge0rG

    hi dwd

  168. dwd

    Sorry, server issues. :-(

  169. jonas’

    hi dwd

  170. jonas’

    I’d be curious about your takeaway from the list discussion on PR#963 (see above)

  171. dwd

    Still +1 for (4a).

  172. dwd

    The attack was predicated on a compromised key.

  173. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL itself would already be an issue, right?

  174. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKIitself would already be an issue, right?

  175. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKI itself would already be an issue, right?

  176. dwd


  177. jonas’

    I see

  178. jonas’

    Zash, vote?

  179. jonas’

    dwd, thanks

  180. Zash

    Let's say +1

  181. jonas’


  182. jonas’

    5) Pending Votes

  183. jonas’

    we have a bunch of pending votes on various things

  184. Ge0rG

    Yes, I'd like to cast some

  185. jonas’

    Ge0rG, go ahead!

  186. Ge0rG

    -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/972

  187. Ge0rG

    that was easy.

  188. Ge0rG

    oh, right. The rationale: would change normative language of a Final XEP without a damn good reason

  189. Ge0rG

    re #971 I'm not even sure how it is a clarification, as it's actually *removing* text from the XEP

  190. Ge0rG

    +1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/969

  191. Ge0rG

    Was there any list discussion of #971 yet? Everybody is on-list on it

  192. jonas’


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  194. jonas’

    I considered it editorial actually

  195. jonas’

    but I decided to look closely again after last week’s discussion, didn’t have the time tho

  196. Ge0rG


  197. jonas’

    I think the PR removes noise, which makes things easier to read

  198. Ge0rG

    I think I'll on-list it as well, with a gut feeling of +0

  199. dwd

    I have lots of pending votes - sorry, work has been spiking again. I'll set aside some time now to go through them.

  200. jonas’

    dwd, thanks

  201. jonas’

    sorry for the text screenshot, but here’s a rendered word-diff:

  202. jonas’


  203. jonas’

    looking closely, I noticed that removes scarcely-defined ("MAY") behaviour for type="cancel"

  204. jonas’

    other than that, I think it makes the text easier to read

  205. jonas’

    since the duplication of MAY and OPTIONAL is folded into a single OPTIONAL

  206. jonas’

    dwd, now as in "right now"?

  207. dwd

    It looks - well, it looks confusing anyway, but it looks as if 971 restricts the OPTIONAL to only submit/result, whereas prior to that type is always a MAY, but particularly OPTIONAL for submit.

  208. dwd

    jonas’, Not in the meeting. I'll go through afterward on list.

  209. jonas’

    dwd, thanks!

  210. jonas’


  211. jonas’


  212. jonas’

    so the only change is for type="cancel", which was in the previous text covered by "fields provided in the context of other forms types MAY possess a 'type' attribute as well.", which is now gone

  213. jonas’

    how about I make the editors add the "cancel" to the enumeration in the last sentence?

  214. jonas’

    (or flow)

  215. Zash


  216. dwd

    Yeah, so OPTIONAL == MAY (and maybe === depending on your language of choice), but it does read as though submit is more optional, for types, than others.

  217. jonas’

    which is where I think the clarification actually comes in handy

  218. jonas’

    either way, I’m under a bit of time pressure, so let’s take this to the list or to the next meeting

  219. dwd

    The problem is, sort of not really. The text says "type" is optional, and if it's not present it means "text-single". But you might not get it on submit because you know the type is.

  220. jonas’

    speaking of which: 6) Date of Next

  221. dwd

    Which we do. It's "text-single".

  222. jonas’

    dwd, oh!

  223. jonas’

    yeah, definitely needs more discussion

  224. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  225. Zash

    +1w wfm

  226. dwd

    +1w wfm2.

  227. jonas’


  228. jonas’

    Ge0rG, ^

  229. dwd

    jonas’, And yeah, I'm taking a particularly obtuse reading of that text, but it's not overhwleming in its clarity.

  230. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  231. jonas’

    7) AOB

  232. jonas’

    just very quickly, dwd, will you take up that video call thing again?

  233. dwd

    jonas’, Yes, I'll try to sort that as well.

  234. jonas’


  235. jonas’

    any other AOB which fits in <5min?

  236. jonas’

    taking the absence of typing notifications as well as the time as a "no"

  237. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  238. jonas’

    thank you everyone

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  240. Zash


  241. dwd

    Thanks jonas’!

  242. jonas’

    (and of course, thanks tedd)

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