XMPP Council - 2020-07-29

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  83. Ge0rG If only somebody had warned us.
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  143. jonas’ I may be late by a few minutes
  144. Ge0rG Let's see if we have anybody else, just to help the chair
  145. Zash Here, but so tired
  146. Ge0rG 1) Roll Call
  147. susmit88 has left
  148. Ge0rG Looks like there is no dwd...
  149. Ge0rG daniel?
  150. jonas’ here
  151. jonas’ thank you, Ge0rG
  152. Ge0rG hi jonas’, looks like we have a quorum, if Zash is more than half awake at least.
  153. jonas’ let’s assume that he is
  154. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  155. jonas’ any modifications?
  156. Ge0rG lgtm
  157. Zash same
  158. jonas’ 3) Editor’s update
  159. jonas’ congrats MattJ for getting 0.7.0 of XEP-0313 through the pipes
  160. jonas’ 4) Items for Voting
  161. jonas’ 4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.
  162. jonas’ 4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.
  163. jonas’ so there was some list discussion on this and we should cast a vote
  164. jonas’ I’m on-list though
  165. dwd has joined
  166. Ge0rG on-list is a sane default.
  167. Ge0rG hi dwd
  168. dwd Sorry, server issues. :-(
  169. jonas’ hi dwd
  170. jonas’ I’d be curious about your takeaway from the list discussion on PR#963 (see above)
  171. dwd Still +1 for (4a).
  172. dwd The attack was predicated on a compromised key.
  173. jonas’ in which case SASL EXTERNAL itself would already be an issue, right?
  174. jonas’ in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKIitself would already be an issue, right?
  175. jonas’ in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKI itself would already be an issue, right?
  176. dwd Yes.
  177. jonas’ I see
  178. jonas’ Zash, vote?
  179. jonas’ dwd, thanks
  180. Zash Let's say +1
  181. jonas’ alright
  182. jonas’ 5) Pending Votes
  183. jonas’ we have a bunch of pending votes on various things
  184. Ge0rG Yes, I'd like to cast some
  185. jonas’ Ge0rG, go ahead!
  186. Ge0rG -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/972
  187. Ge0rG that was easy.
  188. Ge0rG oh, right. The rationale: would change normative language of a Final XEP without a damn good reason
  189. Ge0rG re #971 I'm not even sure how it is a clarification, as it's actually *removing* text from the XEP
  190. Ge0rG +1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/969
  191. Ge0rG Was there any list discussion of #971 yet? Everybody is on-list on it
  192. jonas’ no
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  194. jonas’ I considered it editorial actually
  195. jonas’ but I decided to look closely again after last week’s discussion, didn’t have the time tho
  196. Ge0rG roger.
  197. jonas’ I think the PR removes noise, which makes things easier to read
  198. Ge0rG I think I'll on-list it as well, with a gut feeling of +0
  199. dwd I have lots of pending votes - sorry, work has been spiking again. I'll set aside some time now to go through them.
  200. jonas’ dwd, thanks
  201. jonas’ sorry for the text screenshot, but here’s a rendered word-diff:
  202. jonas’ https://share.dreckshal.de/dpm/Y0v3cLNMzizbVb6HOvfNMw7vnyhTFfLLGEvV_QssLA4.png
  203. jonas’ looking closely, I noticed that removes scarcely-defined ("MAY") behaviour for type="cancel"
  204. jonas’ other than that, I think it makes the text easier to read
  205. jonas’ since the duplication of MAY and OPTIONAL is folded into a single OPTIONAL
  206. jonas’ dwd, now as in "right now"?
  207. dwd It looks - well, it looks confusing anyway, but it looks as if 971 restricts the OPTIONAL to only submit/result, whereas prior to that type is always a MAY, but particularly OPTIONAL for submit.
  208. dwd jonas’, Not in the meeting. I'll go through afterward on list.
  209. jonas’ dwd, thanks!
  210. jonas’ OPTIONAL == MAY
  211. jonas’ ftr
  212. jonas’ so the only change is for type="cancel", which was in the previous text covered by "fields provided in the context of other forms types MAY possess a 'type' attribute as well.", which is now gone
  213. jonas’ how about I make the editors add the "cancel" to the enumeration in the last sentence?
  214. jonas’ (or flow)
  215. Zash Hmmm
  216. dwd Yeah, so OPTIONAL == MAY (and maybe === depending on your language of choice), but it does read as though submit is more optional, for types, than others.
  217. jonas’ which is where I think the clarification actually comes in handy
  218. jonas’ either way, I’m under a bit of time pressure, so let’s take this to the list or to the next meeting
  219. dwd The problem is, sort of not really. The text says "type" is optional, and if it's not present it means "text-single". But you might not get it on submit because you know the type is.
  220. jonas’ speaking of which: 6) Date of Next
  221. dwd Which we do. It's "text-single".
  222. jonas’ dwd, oh!
  223. jonas’ yeah, definitely needs more discussion
  224. jonas’ +1w wfm
  225. Zash +1w wfm
  226. dwd +1w wfm2.
  227. jonas’ Ge0rG,
  228. jonas’ Ge0rG, ^
  229. dwd jonas’, And yeah, I'm taking a particularly obtuse reading of that text, but it's not overhwleming in its clarity.
  230. Ge0rG +1W WFM
  231. jonas’ 7) AOB
  232. jonas’ just very quickly, dwd, will you take up that video call thing again?
  233. dwd jonas’, Yes, I'll try to sort that as well.
  234. jonas’ thanks
  235. jonas’ any other AOB which fits in <5min?
  236. jonas’ taking the absence of typing notifications as well as the time as a "no"
  237. jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est
  238. jonas’ thank you everyone
  239. jonas’ runs away
  240. Zash thanks
  241. dwd Thanks jonas’!
  242. jonas’ (and of course, thanks tedd)
  243. Zash falls asleep
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