XMPP Council - 2020-07-29


  1. Ge0rG

    If only somebody had warned us.

  2. jonas’

    I may be late by a few minutes

  3. Ge0rG

    Let's see if we have anybody else, just to help the chair

  4. Zash

    Here, but so tired

  5. Ge0rG

    1) Roll Call

  6. Ge0rG

    Looks like there is no dwd...

  7. Ge0rG

    daniel?

  8. jonas’

    here

  9. jonas’

    thank you, Ge0rG

  10. Ge0rG

    hi jonas’, looks like we have a quorum, if Zash is more than half awake at least.

  11. jonas’

    let’s assume that he is

  12. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  13. jonas’

    any modifications?

  14. Ge0rG

    lgtm

  15. Zash

    same

  16. jonas’

    3) Editor’s update

  17. jonas’

    congrats MattJ for getting 0.7.0 of XEP-0313 through the pipes

  18. jonas’

    4) Items for Voting

  19. jonas’

    4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.

  20. jonas’

    4a) Revisit PR#963: XEP-0178: Clarify SASL-EXTERNAL specification when s2s auth fails URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/963 Abstract: A while back it was discussed that XEP-0178 (SASL-EXTERNAL) for s2s was kinda misleading - it says that server should close connection if authentication fails but it seems that "everyone" (at least Prosody[0] and ejabberd) actually fallbacks to dialback in that case.

  21. jonas’

    so there was some list discussion on this and we should cast a vote

  22. jonas’

    I’m on-list though

  23. Ge0rG

    on-list is a sane default.

  24. Ge0rG

    hi dwd

  25. dwd

    Sorry, server issues. :-(

  26. jonas’

    hi dwd

  27. jonas’

    I’d be curious about your takeaway from the list discussion on PR#963 (see above)

  28. dwd

    Still +1 for (4a).

  29. dwd

    The attack was predicated on a compromised key.

  30. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL itself would already be an issue, right?

  31. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKIitself would already be an issue, right?

  32. jonas’

    in which case SASL EXTERNAL based on TLS PKI itself would already be an issue, right?

  33. dwd

    Yes.

  34. jonas’

    I see

  35. jonas’

    Zash, vote?

  36. jonas’

    dwd, thanks

  37. Zash

    Let's say +1

  38. jonas’

    alright

  39. jonas’

    5) Pending Votes

  40. jonas’

    we have a bunch of pending votes on various things

  41. Ge0rG

    Yes, I'd like to cast some

  42. jonas’

    Ge0rG, go ahead!

  43. Ge0rG

    -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/972

  44. Ge0rG

    that was easy.

  45. Ge0rG

    oh, right. The rationale: would change normative language of a Final XEP without a damn good reason

  46. Ge0rG

    re #971 I'm not even sure how it is a clarification, as it's actually *removing* text from the XEP

  47. Ge0rG

    +1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/969

  48. Ge0rG

    Was there any list discussion of #971 yet? Everybody is on-list on it

  49. jonas’

    no

  50. jonas’

    I considered it editorial actually

  51. jonas’

    but I decided to look closely again after last week’s discussion, didn’t have the time tho

  52. Ge0rG

    roger.

  53. jonas’

    I think the PR removes noise, which makes things easier to read

  54. Ge0rG

    I think I'll on-list it as well, with a gut feeling of +0

  55. dwd

    I have lots of pending votes - sorry, work has been spiking again. I'll set aside some time now to go through them.

  56. jonas’

    dwd, thanks

  57. jonas’

    sorry for the text screenshot, but here’s a rendered word-diff:

  58. jonas’

    https://share.dreckshal.de/dpm/Y0v3cLNMzizbVb6HOvfNMw7vnyhTFfLLGEvV_QssLA4.png

  59. jonas’

    looking closely, I noticed that removes scarcely-defined ("MAY") behaviour for type="cancel"

  60. jonas’

    other than that, I think it makes the text easier to read

  61. jonas’

    since the duplication of MAY and OPTIONAL is folded into a single OPTIONAL

  62. jonas’

    dwd, now as in "right now"?

  63. dwd

    It looks - well, it looks confusing anyway, but it looks as if 971 restricts the OPTIONAL to only submit/result, whereas prior to that type is always a MAY, but particularly OPTIONAL for submit.

  64. dwd

    jonas’, Not in the meeting. I'll go through afterward on list.

  65. jonas’

    dwd, thanks!

  66. jonas’

    OPTIONAL == MAY

  67. jonas’

    ftr

  68. jonas’

    so the only change is for type="cancel", which was in the previous text covered by "fields provided in the context of other forms types MAY possess a 'type' attribute as well.", which is now gone

  69. jonas’

    how about I make the editors add the "cancel" to the enumeration in the last sentence?

  70. jonas’

    (or flow)

  71. Zash

    Hmmm

  72. dwd

    Yeah, so OPTIONAL == MAY (and maybe === depending on your language of choice), but it does read as though submit is more optional, for types, than others.

  73. jonas’

    which is where I think the clarification actually comes in handy

  74. jonas’

    either way, I’m under a bit of time pressure, so let’s take this to the list or to the next meeting

  75. dwd

    The problem is, sort of not really. The text says "type" is optional, and if it's not present it means "text-single". But you might not get it on submit because you know the type is.

  76. jonas’

    speaking of which: 6) Date of Next

  77. dwd

    Which we do. It's "text-single".

  78. jonas’

    dwd, oh!

  79. jonas’

    yeah, definitely needs more discussion

  80. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  81. Zash

    +1w wfm

  82. dwd

    +1w wfm2.

  83. jonas’

    Ge0rG,

  84. jonas’

    Ge0rG, ^

  85. dwd

    jonas’, And yeah, I'm taking a particularly obtuse reading of that text, but it's not overhwleming in its clarity.

  86. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  87. jonas’

    7) AOB

  88. jonas’

    just very quickly, dwd, will you take up that video call thing again?

  89. dwd

    jonas’, Yes, I'll try to sort that as well.

  90. jonas’

    thanks

  91. jonas’

    any other AOB which fits in <5min?

  92. jonas’

    taking the absence of typing notifications as well as the time as a "no"

  93. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  94. jonas’

    thank you everyone

  95. jonas’ runs away

  96. Zash

    thanks

  97. dwd

    Thanks jonas’!

  98. jonas’

    (and of course, thanks tedd)

  99. Zash falls asleep