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jonas’
Ge0rG, you may be intersted in what I wrote about PR#971 on-list just now.
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jonas’
may help guide the discussion about that PR today
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Ge0rG
jonas’: great, thanks
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jonas’
(Re: [Standards] Council Minutes 2020-07-22, really just now, so it’ll arrive on-list probably five minutes after the meeting started, as the list server hates me :))
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Ge0rG
jonas’: as you'll also only arrive after the meeting started, I hope this won't be much of an issue ;)
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jonas’
it also contians my vote on the PR as-is, which is a -1, so if any of you have strong opinions on that, it’d be good if we discussed them now...
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jonas’
Ge0rG, I’ll not arrive at all today, sooo...
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Ge0rG
jonas’: well, that's surely also after the meeting start ;)
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jonas’
indeed
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jonas’
Ge0rG, mail passed through
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jonas’
note that the vote expires this week.
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Ge0rG
Thanks
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Ge0rG
I'm working on a new variant of the MUC-PM diff
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Ge0rG
Tis time.
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Zash
!
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Ge0rG
1) Roll Call
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Zash
Here
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Ge0rG
hi Zash
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Ge0rG
jonas’ is excused.
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daniel
Hi
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Ge0rG
Hi daniel
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Ge0rG
Do we have a dwd?
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Ge0rG
Anyway, it looks like a quorum, so let's proceed.
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Zash
Does not look like we do
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Ge0rG
2) Agenda Bashing
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Ge0rG
jonas’ isn't here, so feel free to bash as much as you want.
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Ge0rG
I wanted to add a follow-up to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/854 but will postpone for another Council Meeting
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Ge0rG
jonas’ provided some more context on PR#972, which we could discuss later.
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Ge0rG
Doesn't look like there are any other additions.
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Ge0rG
3) Editor’s Update
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Ge0rG
I put on my jonas’ hat.
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Ge0rG
- XEP-0048 (Bookmarks) deprecated in favour of XEP-0402 (PEP Native Bookmarks) - Ongoing Calls: - Last Call for XEP-0352 (Client State Indication), ends on 2020-08-18 - Last Call for XEP-0411 (Bookmark Conversion), ends on 2020-08-18
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Ge0rG
okay, enough of the cosplay.
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Ge0rG
4) Items for voting
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Ge0rG
4a) Discuss PR#971: XEP-0004: Clarify field type omission for 'submit' and 'result' form field types
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Ge0rG
this is a recurring topic that's apparently expiring today.
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Ge0rG
jonas’ vetoed it on-list today, with some advice on how to improve the wording
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Zash
I tried to read that on my phone, it sounded sensible.
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Ge0rG
I was confused before, at how removing words can increase the clarity, but with jonas’’ remark about type="error" being undefined, I think that it actually doesn't improve the situation and should be reworded in a better way
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Ge0rG
therefore -1
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Zash
same, -1, "what jonas said" 🙂
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Ge0rG
daniel: would you like to add to this?
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daniel
what jonas said. -1
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Ge0rG
Thanks everyone. Looks like dwd is going to expire from this.
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Ge0rG
5) Pending Votes
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Ge0rG
I'd also like to +1 PR#963, so that I'm down to zero pending now.
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Ge0rG
Zash: did you vote on #972 already? This is just a formalism though.
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Zash
The other xep4 one? I think I did
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Ge0rG
it's not in the spreadsheet of doom.
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Ge0rG
well, it's vetoed multiple times anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference.
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Ge0rG
6) Date of Next
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Ge0rG
+1W WFM
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daniel
+1w wfm
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Zash
+1w wfm
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Ge0rG
great! Let's assume +1W then
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Ge0rG
7) AOB
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Zash
I got nothing
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Ge0rG
Anybody? I have https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/854 for which I wanted to discuss some wording.
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Zash
Discuss ahead
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Ge0rG
I want to add a rationale along the lines of "if you send a PM to somebody who's also your contact, it might be rendered as coming from a separate person"
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Ge0rG
but I fail to find the right words that are adequate for a formal standards document
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Zash
Maybe this is more for ModernXMPP?
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daniel
The discoverabilty of modern xmpp is questionable at best
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Ge0rG
Also modernxmpp is not a stick you can wield to convince developers to improve their sh... app
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daniel
I find should not too strong for a retroactive recommendation
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Ge0rG
SHOULD was discouraged last time I brought this topic up
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Ge0rG
And then I totally forgot to make a new proposal, which I just recently rediscovered.
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Zash
Hiding it deep in 0045 isn't optimal for discoverability either 😛
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daniel
Certainly not
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Ge0rG
but it's something that I can point developers to
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MattJ
and you can't point them to modernxmpp.org?
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Ge0rG
MattJ: I can point them to <anyrandomwebsite>, but it's not convincing.
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MattJ
I'm certainly not against having it in the XEP, but I don't see that much difference
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Ge0rG
well, I *can* try to convince a developer by linking to modernxmpp, just to see if it works.
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MattJ
It's not more discoverable, and it's a protocol document while you're discussing UX considerations
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MattJ
The primary benefit is that it's XSF-official
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MattJ
IMHO
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Ge0rG
but I am focusing on protocol considerations that arise from UX considerations.
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Ge0rG
that's a very strong benefit.
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Zash
If SHOULD is too strong then maybe just an implementation note.. but then modernxmpp seems marginally better IMO
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Ge0rG
also it adds significantly to the discoverability
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daniel
Yes in any case there is too much should and should not in that pr
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daniel
Maybe try modernxmpp first
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Ge0rG
daniel: it's already there: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/groupchat/#private-messages
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daniel
And come back if that didn't yield the desired results
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Zash
Could you raise it on the list?
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Ge0rG
Zash: I think so
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Ge0rG
Okay, so that's probably the next step to do, then. Thanks everybody.
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Ge0rG
7a) AAOB?
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daniel
None here
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Ge0rG
8) U-0004
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Ge0rG
Thanks everyone
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Zash
Thanks
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jonas’
soo...
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jonas’
flow brought up what I assume is a valid point about type="cancel" (instead of type="error", I constantly mistyped that) not having any fields at all
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jonas’
so type="error" being undefined is pretty irrelevant