Ge0rG, you may be intersted in what I wrote about PR#971 on-list just now.
jonas’
may help guide the discussion about that PR today
Ge0rG
jonas’: great, thanks
jonas’
(Re: [Standards] Council Minutes 2020-07-22, really just now, so it’ll arrive on-list probably five minutes after the meeting started, as the list server hates me :))
Ge0rG
jonas’: as you'll also only arrive after the meeting started, I hope this won't be much of an issue ;)
jonas’
it also contians my vote on the PR as-is, which is a -1, so if any of you have strong opinions on that, it’d be good if we discussed them now...
jonas’
Ge0rG, I’ll not arrive at all today, sooo...
Ge0rG
jonas’: well, that's surely also after the meeting start ;)
jonas’
indeed
jonas’
Ge0rG, mail passed through
jonas’
note that the vote expires this week.
Ge0rG
Thanks
Ge0rG
I'm working on a new variant of the MUC-PM diff
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Ge0rG
Tis time.
Zash
!
Ge0rG
1) Roll Call
Zash
Here
Ge0rG
hi Zash
Ge0rG
jonas’ is excused.
daniel
Hi
Ge0rG
Hi daniel
Ge0rG
Do we have a dwd?
Ge0rG
Anyway, it looks like a quorum, so let's proceed.
Zash
Does not look like we do
Ge0rG
2) Agenda Bashing
Ge0rG
jonas’ isn't here, so feel free to bash as much as you want.
Ge0rG
I wanted to add a follow-up to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/854 but will postpone for another Council Meeting
Ge0rG
jonas’ provided some more context on PR#972, which we could discuss later.
Ge0rG
Doesn't look like there are any other additions.
Ge0rG
3) Editor’s Update
Ge0rG
I put on my jonas’ hat.
Ge0rG
- XEP-0048 (Bookmarks) deprecated in favour of XEP-0402 (PEP Native Bookmarks)
- Ongoing Calls:
- Last Call for XEP-0352 (Client State Indication), ends on 2020-08-18
- Last Call for XEP-0411 (Bookmark Conversion), ends on 2020-08-18
Ge0rG
okay, enough of the cosplay.
Ge0rG
4) Items for voting
Ge0rG
4a) Discuss PR#971: XEP-0004: Clarify field type omission for 'submit' and 'result' form field types
Ge0rG
this is a recurring topic that's apparently expiring today.
Ge0rG
jonas’ vetoed it on-list today, with some advice on how to improve the wording
Zash
I tried to read that on my phone, it sounded sensible.
Ge0rG
I was confused before, at how removing words can increase the clarity, but with jonas’’ remark about type="error" being undefined, I think that it actually doesn't improve the situation and should be reworded in a better way
Ge0rG
therefore -1
Zash
same, -1, "what jonas said" 🙂
Ge0rG
daniel: would you like to add to this?
daniel
what jonas said. -1
Ge0rG
Thanks everyone. Looks like dwd is going to expire from this.
Ge0rG
5) Pending Votes
Ge0rG
I'd also like to +1 PR#963, so that I'm down to zero pending now.
Ge0rG
Zash: did you vote on #972 already? This is just a formalism though.
Zash
The other xep4 one? I think I did
Ge0rG
it's not in the spreadsheet of doom.
Ge0rG
well, it's vetoed multiple times anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference.
Ge0rG
6) Date of Next
Ge0rG
+1W WFM
daniel
+1w wfm
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Zash
+1w wfm
Ge0rG
great! Let's assume +1W then
Ge0rG
7) AOB
Zash
I got nothing
Ge0rG
Anybody? I have https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/854 for which I wanted to discuss some wording.
Zash
Discuss ahead
Ge0rG
I want to add a rationale along the lines of "if you send a PM to somebody who's also your contact, it might be rendered as coming from a separate person"
Ge0rG
but I fail to find the right words that are adequate for a formal standards document
Zash
Maybe this is more for ModernXMPP?
daniel
The discoverabilty of modern xmpp is questionable at best
Ge0rG
Also modernxmpp is not a stick you can wield to convince developers to improve their sh... app
daniel
I find should not too strong for a retroactive recommendation
Ge0rG
SHOULD was discouraged last time I brought this topic up
Ge0rG
And then I totally forgot to make a new proposal, which I just recently rediscovered.
Zash
Hiding it deep in 0045 isn't optimal for discoverability either 😛
daniel
Certainly not
Ge0rG
but it's something that I can point developers to
MattJ
and you can't point them to modernxmpp.org?
Ge0rG
MattJ: I can point them to <anyrandomwebsite>, but it's not convincing.
MattJ
I'm certainly not against having it in the XEP, but I don't see that much difference
Ge0rG
well, I *can* try to convince a developer by linking to modernxmpp, just to see if it works.
MattJ
It's not more discoverable, and it's a protocol document while you're discussing UX considerations
MattJ
The primary benefit is that it's XSF-official
MattJ
IMHO
Ge0rG
but I am focusing on protocol considerations that arise from UX considerations.
Ge0rG
that's a very strong benefit.
Zash
If SHOULD is too strong then maybe just an implementation note.. but then modernxmpp seems marginally better IMO
Ge0rG
also it adds significantly to the discoverability
daniel
Yes in any case there is too much should and should not in that pr