XMPP Council - 2020-08-19

  1. jonas’

    exhausting day

  2. Zash


  3. jonas’

    you did seem to have a nice walk though

  4. jonas’

    you did seem to have had a nice walk though

  5. jonas’

    you do seem to have had a nice walk though

  6. jonas’ got himself a nice scoop of home-made lemon sorbet

  7. dwd

    I hope you brought enough for everyone.

  8. jonas’

    there is plenty

  9. jonas’

    also it’s surprisingly easy to make with suitable tooling

  10. Zash

    I too had some lemon sorbet. Very nice

  11. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  12. daniel


  13. Zash

    In a car, headed back to the office to get my bike

  14. jonas’

    I hope you’re not driving

  15. Ge0rG

  16. jonas’

    we had a dwd a few minutes ago, so I assume he’ll be around

  17. dwd


  18. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing Sorry for the delay in the agenda, I hope you all got a chance to look at it nevertheless

  19. jonas’

    anything else to complain about?

  20. Zash

    I haven't seen it yet :(

  21. dwd

    (Sorry, I was distracted by Tigase's announcement on Twitter of MIX support in xmpp.cloud)

  22. jonas’

    Zash, oh? no daytime access to your emails or do we have a problem with the list server?

  23. jonas’

    FYI: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-August/037686.html

  24. jonas’

    either way, despite this being a surprise agenda for Zash (and maybe others?), let’s move on

  25. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update - ProtoXEPs: - Message Archive Management Preferences - Pubsub Message Archive Management Both have been created as a spin-off from the most recent MAM update, but due to human error they were stuck in the PR queue.

  26. jonas’

    so yay to MattJ for getting those up

  27. jonas’

    4) Items for voting

  28. jonas’

    4a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Archive Management Preferences URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xep-mam-prefs.html Abstract: This document defines a protocol to control a user's archiving preferences. Note: This is in context of the MAM split-off in the most recent MAM release.

  29. daniel


  30. Ge0rG

    I have issues with that proto-XEP.

  31. jonas’

    I have formal issues

  32. jonas’

    Ge0rG, -v?

  33. Ge0rG

    Namely, two issues: a) experience shows that the default should be "all" and not "roster"; and b) I've stated multiple times before, in the context of 0313, that we need a way for the server to indicate to the client that no _explicit_ MAM storage prefs configuration has happened yet, so that the client can show a GDPR opt-in dialog

  34. Ge0rG

    oh, looks like that one bot with thousands of roster items has just restarted, making my server lag for a minute or two

  35. dwd

    Ge0rG, Is that sufficient to block publication of something that we have previously published?

  36. jonas’

    same question

  37. Zash

    If it's broken out of 313 is it not an editorial thing?

  38. Ge0rG

    oh, +1 to 4a

  39. jonas’

    also +1

  40. jonas’

    Zash, I don’t think so

  41. dwd

    Ge0rG, I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but...

  42. jonas’

    it will be easier to handle those concerns in a document separate from '313

  43. Ge0rG

    dwd: sorry, I intended to +1 immediately but then got distracted by the overly long line, and then by the server lag

  44. jonas’

    so having this as an indepentent XEP is the way to go

  45. Ge0rG

    it is using MAM's namepsace, right?

  46. dwd

    I have one concern over this XEP - it's the same namespace as XEP-0313.

  47. jonas’

    dwd, I think that’s a feature, not a bug

  48. Ge0rG

    not that I'd consider that to be a problem, just that it's forking off of :2

  49. dwd

    And Ge0rG has managed to say so immediately prior to my saying so.

  50. jonas’

    I’ll try to keep an eye on it and have it use a different namespace once a bumping change happens.

  51. dwd

    I think it *is* a feature, but - exactly what jonas’ says.

  52. jonas’

    maybe also CC @ MattJ so that he’s aware

  53. jonas’

    dwd, Zash, votes?

  54. dwd

    I might even go so far as to say it should be changed *now*, but with a note saying this was previously offered under a different namespace.

  55. jonas’

    ok, I disagree on that one

  56. dwd

    So a cautious +1.

  57. dwd

    jonas’, Not a hill for me to die upon.

  58. jonas’

    ok, let’s not have that discussion now then :)

  59. jonas’

    (there have been *plenty* of pointless discussions today already, no need to add to it)

  60. MattJ

    FWIW I see this protocol as a dead-end as far as I'm concerned (i.e. no bumps will happen)

  61. Zash


  62. jonas’

    Zash, thanks

  63. jonas’

    MattJ, curious, why?

  64. MattJ

    Giving users fine-grained control over archiving has... consequences

  65. jonas’

    MattJ, ok, maybe also a discussion for the list.

  66. jonas’

    can you put that as a reply to the ProtoXEP announcement maybe?

  67. MattJ

    Yeah, I was going to start one in response to the thread

  68. MattJ

    Yes :)

  69. jonas’

    lovely, thanks

  70. jonas’

    moving on

  71. MattJ

    I started writing it but didn't have time so put it aside

  72. jonas’

    4b) Proposed XMPP Extension: Pubsub Message Archive Management URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xep-pubsub-mam.html Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control a pubsub node's message archive. Note: This is in context of the MAM split-off in the most recent MAM release.

  73. daniel


  74. Zash


  75. jonas’

    +1, though it also needs some love

  76. dwd


  77. Ge0rG


  78. jonas’

    that was quick’n’easy

  79. jonas’

    4c) PR#976: XEP-0060: Add missing querytype 'retrieve' action and 'item' key to registry submission URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/976 Abstract: The PubSub specification is missing registry entries for the 'retrieve' action and the 'item' key. This PR adds those to the query type registry submission. See-Also: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-August/037679.html

  80. jonas’

    I’m not sure if this shouldn’t even be editorial, but I wanted to make sure

  81. daniel

    Seems editorial to me

  82. Ge0rG

    +1, also what's the overall state of the registry?

  83. jonas’

    Ge0rG, don’t ask

  84. dwd

    +1 if we need a +1.

  85. jonas’


  86. daniel


  87. Zash


  88. Ge0rG doesn't ask

  89. jonas’


  90. jonas’

    4d) PR#975: XEP-0004: Clarify field type omission for 'submit' and 'result' form field types, Version 2 URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/975 See-Also: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-August/037664.html See-Also: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/971

  91. jonas’

    the never-ending PR chain

  92. Zash


  93. jonas’


  94. jonas’

    please don’t just +1 because I proposed this PR convincingly ;)

  95. daniel

    On list

  96. Ge0rG


  97. dwd

    +1 because jonas’ proposed it convincingly.

  98. jonas’


  99. jonas’

    ok, that’s it

  100. jonas’

    5) Pending Votes

  101. Zash

    It looked good last week

  102. jonas’

    only the on-lists from today

  103. jonas’

    6) Date of Next

  104. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  105. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  106. dwd

    +1 to that too.

  107. daniel

    +1w wfm

  108. Zash

    +1w wfm

  109. jonas’


  110. jonas’

    7) AOB

  111. jonas’

    One from me:

  112. jonas’

    I’ll be on vacation in the week of the 9th of september, so I’ll not be able to chair or prepare an agenda. That’s just as a heads up so that someone can step forward to take that on.

  113. jonas’

    In addition, september will in general be "interesting times" here, so there may be times where the agenda has more jitter or I’ll need to delegate that and/or chairing

  114. jonas’

    in october, stuff should gradually resume to normality

  115. Ge0rG

    I might be on vacation in the two weeks from Sep 14th or any other two weeks thereafter, depending on conditions outside of my control.

  116. jonas’

    Any other AOB?

  117. stpeter

    I'm reviewing https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/905/ now :-)

  118. jonas’


  119. jonas’

    assuming no further AOB

  120. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  121. jonas’

    thanks everyone, especially Tedd. Stay healthy.

  122. Zash


  123. Ge0rG

    Thanks jonas’