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16:00:04 jonas’
1) Roll Call
16:00:23 Zash
Here
16:00:24 Ge0rG
here
16:00:36 jonas’
dwd sent apologies
16:00:44 jonas’
do we get a daniel?
16:00:46 Zash
If I dissapear then my laptop probably died.
16:00:57 daniel
Yes I'm here
16:01:02 jonas’
neat
16:01:12 jonas’
2) Agenda Bashing
16:01:12 jonas’
anything?
16:01:27 Ge0rG
I haven't managed to do any of the nice tasks I planned, like segmenting 0401
16:01:49 jonas’
assuming no
16:01:55 jonas’
3) Editor’s Update
- Welcomed Martin Dosch as editor
16:02:01 jonas’
4) Items for voting
None.
16:02:05 jonas’
5) Pending Votes
16:02:18 jonas’
Ge0rG, do you want to vote on MR!25, the User tune thing today?
16:02:25 jonas’
(you have time until next week I think)
16:02:37 Ge0rG
jonas’: I haven't managed to catch up on that, sorry.
16:02:53 jonas’
also, pretty please vote, otherwise I’ll have to look up exactly how our bylaws regulate this awful edge case :P
16:03:05 jonas’
with either +1 or -1, don’t vote 0, that’s not helpful ;-)
16:03:14 Ge0rG
🤔
16:03:17 jonas’
but ok, moving on then
16:03:23 jonas’
6) Date of Next
16:04:01 jonas’
+1w wfm, without caveats (that I know of) from my side for a change
16:04:27 daniel
Yes that should work for me as well
16:04:54 Zash
+1w wfm
16:05:07 jonas’
good enough, I suppose
16:05:09 jonas’
7) AOB
16:05:17 jonas’
7a) Election Season
16:05:27 Ge0rG
yay!
16:05:29 jonas’
I note that out of current council, only daniel and me have put up an application so far.
16:05:53 jonas’
Out of curiosity, where do the other members stand? do you intend to reapply and haven’t gotten around yet? still contemplating? hard no?
16:06:03 Zash
Does anyone want me to continue?
16:06:16 Zash
Mostly just busy with other stuff or too exhausted to do anything.
16:06:29 jonas’
Zash, I think you do regularly add valuable bits to the discussions.
16:06:42 jonas’
also, with the current lineup, we have 0 server developers.
16:07:03 jonas’
but if you don’t feel comfortable with doing it, I wouldn’t want to pressure you into anything.
16:07:29 Zash
I'd appreciate a reminder (when I'm at home with access to all my credentials)
16:07:36 jonas’
I’ll try to arrange for that.
16:07:41 jonas’
Ge0rG, any word on that matter?
16:08:15 Ge0rG
jonas’: I'd like to continue, even though I have had less time this year than last one.
16:08:31 jonas’
okay, I see, thank you
16:08:51 Ge0rG
I suppose I need to fill out my application before it's too late
16:08:56 jonas’
I’d also say that you add value to the discussions.
16:08:58 jonas’
yes, you do :)
16:09:09 Zash
The thing eating all my time should end Soon:tm: too, hope to have more time then.
16:09:14 Ge0rG
but maybe a last-second application will encourage newcomers to candidate
16:09:20 Zash
(like, early next year)
16:09:33 jonas’
Zash, I wish you all the best for that
16:09:45 jonas’
any other AOB?
16:10:04 Zash
I got nothing.
16:10:14 Ge0rG
I'd like to add a <delay> element into the non-normative example of MUC subject delivery
16:10:27 jonas’
Ge0rG, there is no delay element? :-O
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16:10:33 Ge0rG
jonas’: no
16:10:40 Ge0rG
it's probably straight-forward, but one could argue that it belongs into 0203 instead
16:10:48 jonas’
MUC never ceases to amaze me
16:10:50 daniel
And servers don't usually add that
16:10:51 Zash
Ge0rG, seen anything in the wild doing this? I think I have
16:10:54 daniel
Last I checked
16:10:55 jonas’
daniel, they don’-? ✎
16:10:57 jonas’
daniel, they don’t? ✏
16:11:02 Ge0rG
jonas’: I was as shocked as you when I realized it isn't there
16:11:12 jonas’
Ge0rG, it most certainly belongs in '45
16:11:13 Ge0rG
...when I wanted to tell the Bifröst devs that it's a good practice.
16:11:22 daniel
No. I once wanted to place the subject where it belongs in history
16:11:28 daniel
And that didn't work
16:11:36 Ge0rG
daniel: prosody will send a delay
16:11:54 Zash
Does it?
16:11:54 daniel
Mhhh maybe that's a recent thing?
16:12:03 jonas’
daniel, placing the subject in the place where it belongs in the history doesn’t really work in all cases (only approximating it if the subject is older than the oldest bit of history retrieved via classic history)
16:12:06 daniel
I last checked a few years ago
16:12:20 Zash
Should subject go in MAM?
16:12:42 daniel
jonas’: yes. But having a delay tag would at least allow you do try this with some considerations
16:12:48 Ge0rG
Zash: subject changes should. The interesting question is whether they should expire together with regular messages
16:13:03 Ge0rG
speaking of MAM, it recommends to store 'groupchat' messages into user archives.
16:13:16 daniel
Don't we need this for mix anyway?
16:13:37 Zash
It should probably handwave something about support for it.
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16:13:45 Ge0rG
daniel: no, and I'm not going to stop my opposition to that until somebody works out how to resync after any kind of s2s outage
16:13:51 Zash
Heck you could save everything, PEP notifications even.
16:14:07 Ge0rG
leave pep. out of my MAM!
16:14:15 pep.
:(
16:14:21 jonas’
so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included
16:14:33 daniel
> so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included
+1
16:14:33 jonas’
I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even.
16:14:42 Ge0rG
jonas’: that's a normative change!
16:14:42 daniel
> I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even.
+1
16:14:42 jonas’
clients will see whether the <delay/> is there or not
16:14:47 jonas’
Ge0rG, let me finish :)
16:14:58 jonas’
and clients which don’t expect <delay/> are doomed anyway, because it can be added by anyone
16:15:09 Zash
+1 to this whole notion
16:15:16 Ge0rG
jonas’: somebody is going to demand a feature var for that.
16:15:19 jonas’
and if we then also add a note that you cannot rely on <delay/> being there because it didn’t exist in MUC < version X.YZ, it’s ok.
16:15:25 Ge0rG
also +1 in case we are Formally Voting
16:15:27 jonas’
Ge0rG, then we add one and make them happy
16:15:32 jonas’
we’re not formally voting, we have nothing to vote on ;)
16:15:46 jonas’
someone should prepare a text, which I may do after this meeting
16:15:48 Ge0rG
yeah right.
16:16:19 Ge0rG
jonas’: that'd be splendid, as I lacked the time to do it since I discovered this strange omission
16:16:29 jonas’
will do, I have the file open already
16:16:34 jonas’
any other AOB?
16:16:41 daniel
None here
16:16:55 Ge0rG
None
16:17:01 jonas’
alright
16:17:04 jonas’
8) Ite Meeting Est
16:17:06 jonas’
thanks everyone
16:17:08 Zash
Thanks jonas’
16:17:16 Ge0rG
thanks jonas’, thanks theTedd
16:17:18 daniel
Thanks jonas’
16:17:28 Zash
Thanks Tedd!
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16:27:04 jonas’
FTR: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/29
https://xsf.gitlab.io/-/xeps/-/jobs/817295433/artifacts/rendered-changes/xep-0045.html#enter-subject
16:34:05 Ge0rG
ah, right. subject @from is the user, delay @from is the MUC because manipulation
16:34:15 jonas’
yes
16:36:17 Ge0rG
jonas’: 👍
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18:47:35 Ge0rG
While we are at it, we should change XEP-0118 to use the new integer-or-max field type for the `rating` element.
18:48:26 Zash
Shouldn't rating be in the 0..1 range?
18:49:19 Ge0rG
maybe, but then we'd need a float-or-max type
18:50:36 Zash
why max?
18:51:01 Ge0rG
because your favorite song should have the max rating
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[💩️..❤️]
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