XMPP Council - 2020-10-28


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  86. jonas’ 1) Roll Call
  87. Zash Here
  88. Ge0rG here
  89. jonas’ dwd sent apologies
  90. jonas’ do we get a daniel?
  91. Zash If I dissapear then my laptop probably died.
  92. daniel Yes I'm here
  93. jonas’ neat
  94. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  95. jonas’ anything?
  96. Ge0rG I haven't managed to do any of the nice tasks I planned, like segmenting 0401
  97. jonas’ assuming no
  98. jonas’ 3) Editor’s Update - Welcomed Martin Dosch as editor
  99. jonas’ 4) Items for voting None.
  100. jonas’ 5) Pending Votes
  101. jonas’ Ge0rG, do you want to vote on MR!25, the User tune thing today?
  102. jonas’ (you have time until next week I think)
  103. Ge0rG jonas’: I haven't managed to catch up on that, sorry.
  104. jonas’ also, pretty please vote, otherwise I’ll have to look up exactly how our bylaws regulate this awful edge case :P
  105. jonas’ with either +1 or -1, don’t vote 0, that’s not helpful ;-)
  106. Ge0rG 🤔
  107. jonas’ but ok, moving on then
  108. jonas’ 6) Date of Next
  109. jonas’ +1w wfm, without caveats (that I know of) from my side for a change
  110. daniel Yes that should work for me as well
  111. Zash +1w wfm
  112. jonas’ good enough, I suppose
  113. jonas’ 7) AOB
  114. jonas’ 7a) Election Season
  115. Ge0rG yay!
  116. jonas’ I note that out of current council, only daniel and me have put up an application so far.
  117. jonas’ Out of curiosity, where do the other members stand? do you intend to reapply and haven’t gotten around yet? still contemplating? hard no?
  118. Zash Does anyone want me to continue?
  119. Zash Mostly just busy with other stuff or too exhausted to do anything.
  120. jonas’ Zash, I think you do regularly add valuable bits to the discussions.
  121. jonas’ also, with the current lineup, we have 0 server developers.
  122. jonas’ but if you don’t feel comfortable with doing it, I wouldn’t want to pressure you into anything.
  123. Zash I'd appreciate a reminder (when I'm at home with access to all my credentials)
  124. jonas’ I’ll try to arrange for that.
  125. jonas’ Ge0rG, any word on that matter?
  126. Ge0rG jonas’: I'd like to continue, even though I have had less time this year than last one.
  127. jonas’ okay, I see, thank you
  128. Ge0rG I suppose I need to fill out my application before it's too late
  129. jonas’ I’d also say that you add value to the discussions.
  130. jonas’ yes, you do :)
  131. Zash The thing eating all my time should end Soon:tm: too, hope to have more time then.
  132. Ge0rG but maybe a last-second application will encourage newcomers to candidate
  133. Zash (like, early next year)
  134. jonas’ Zash, I wish you all the best for that
  135. jonas’ any other AOB?
  136. Zash I got nothing.
  137. Ge0rG I'd like to add a <delay> element into the non-normative example of MUC subject delivery
  138. jonas’ Ge0rG, there is no delay element? :-O
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  140. Ge0rG jonas’: no
  141. Ge0rG it's probably straight-forward, but one could argue that it belongs into 0203 instead
  142. jonas’ MUC never ceases to amaze me
  143. daniel And servers don't usually add that
  144. Zash Ge0rG, seen anything in the wild doing this? I think I have
  145. daniel Last I checked
  146. jonas’ daniel, they don’-?
  147. jonas’ daniel, they don’t?
  148. Ge0rG jonas’: I was as shocked as you when I realized it isn't there
  149. jonas’ Ge0rG, it most certainly belongs in '45
  150. Ge0rG ...when I wanted to tell the Bifröst devs that it's a good practice.
  151. daniel No. I once wanted to place the subject where it belongs in history
  152. daniel And that didn't work
  153. Ge0rG daniel: prosody will send a delay
  154. Zash Does it?
  155. daniel Mhhh maybe that's a recent thing?
  156. jonas’ daniel, placing the subject in the place where it belongs in the history doesn’t really work in all cases (only approximating it if the subject is older than the oldest bit of history retrieved via classic history)
  157. daniel I last checked a few years ago
  158. Zash Should subject go in MAM?
  159. daniel jonas’: yes. But having a delay tag would at least allow you do try this with some considerations
  160. Ge0rG Zash: subject changes should. The interesting question is whether they should expire together with regular messages
  161. Ge0rG speaking of MAM, it recommends to store 'groupchat' messages into user archives.
  162. daniel Don't we need this for mix anyway?
  163. Zash It should probably handwave something about support for it.
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  165. Ge0rG daniel: no, and I'm not going to stop my opposition to that until somebody works out how to resync after any kind of s2s outage
  166. Zash Heck you could save everything, PEP notifications even.
  167. Ge0rG leave pep. out of my MAM!
  168. pep. :(
  169. jonas’ so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included
  170. daniel > so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included +1
  171. jonas’ I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even.
  172. Ge0rG jonas’: that's a normative change!
  173. daniel > I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even. +1
  174. jonas’ clients will see whether the <delay/> is there or not
  175. jonas’ Ge0rG, let me finish :)
  176. jonas’ and clients which don’t expect <delay/> are doomed anyway, because it can be added by anyone
  177. Zash +1 to this whole notion
  178. Ge0rG jonas’: somebody is going to demand a feature var for that.
  179. jonas’ and if we then also add a note that you cannot rely on <delay/> being there because it didn’t exist in MUC < version X.YZ, it’s ok.
  180. Ge0rG also +1 in case we are Formally Voting
  181. jonas’ Ge0rG, then we add one and make them happy
  182. jonas’ we’re not formally voting, we have nothing to vote on ;)
  183. jonas’ someone should prepare a text, which I may do after this meeting
  184. Ge0rG yeah right.
  185. Ge0rG jonas’: that'd be splendid, as I lacked the time to do it since I discovered this strange omission
  186. jonas’ will do, I have the file open already
  187. jonas’ any other AOB?
  188. daniel None here
  189. Ge0rG None
  190. jonas’ alright
  191. jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est
  192. jonas’ thanks everyone
  193. Zash Thanks jonas’
  194. Ge0rG thanks jonas’, thanks theTedd
  195. daniel Thanks jonas’
  196. Zash Thanks Tedd!
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  199. jonas’ FTR: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/29 https://xsf.gitlab.io/-/xeps/-/jobs/817295433/artifacts/rendered-changes/xep-0045.html#enter-subject
  200. Ge0rG ah, right. subject @from is the user, delay @from is the MUC because manipulation
  201. jonas’ yes
  202. Ge0rG jonas’: 👍
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  210. Ge0rG While we are at it, we should change XEP-0118 to use the new integer-or-max field type for the `rating` element.
  211. Zash Shouldn't rating be in the 0..1 range?
  212. Ge0rG maybe, but then we'd need a float-or-max type
  213. Zash why max?
  214. Ge0rG because your favorite song should have the max rating
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  225. Zash [💩️..❤️]
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