XMPP Council - 2020-10-28

  1. Wojtek has left

  2. Lance has left

  3. debacle has left

  4. Lance has joined

  5. Lance has left

  6. stpeter has left

  7. SouL has left

  8. adityaborikar has joined

  9. adityaborikar has left

  10. adityaborikar has joined

  11. Lance has joined

  12. Lance has left

  13. vaulor has left

  14. vaulor has joined

  15. moparisthebest has left

  16. vaulor has left

  17. vaulor has joined

  18. moparisthebest has joined

  19. adityaborikar has left

  20. adityaborikar has joined

  21. Tobias has joined

  22. SouL has joined

  23. adityaborikar has left

  24. adityaborikar has joined

  25. Zash has left

  26. Zash has joined

  27. Zash has left

  28. Zash has joined

  29. paul has joined

  30. moparisthebest has left

  31. moparisthebest has joined

  32. Zash has left

  33. sonny has left

  34. sonny has joined

  35. Zash has joined

  36. sonny has left

  37. sonny has joined

  38. sonny has left

  39. sonny has joined

  40. sonny has left

  41. sonny has joined

  42. sonny has left

  43. sonny has joined

  44. sonny has left

  45. sonny has joined

  46. neox has joined

  47. pprrks has left

  48. pprrks has joined

  49. debacle has joined

  50. sonny has left

  51. sonny has joined

  52. sonny has left

  53. sonny has joined

  54. Syndace has joined

  55. moparisthebest has left

  56. moparisthebest has joined

  57. sonny has left

  58. sonny has joined

  59. B has left

  60. B has joined

  61. sonny has left

  62. sonny has joined

  63. B has left

  64. B has joined

  65. B has left

  66. pprrks has left

  67. pprrks has joined

  68. B has joined

  69. B has left

  70. adityaborikar has left

  71. debacle has left

  72. adityaborikar has joined

  73. B has joined

  74. adityaborikar has left

  75. moparisthebest has left

  76. adityaborikar has joined

  77. adityaborikar has left

  78. adityaborikar has joined

  79. Wojtek has joined

  80. debacle has joined

  81. adityaborikar has left

  82. adityaborikar has joined

  83. Wojtek has left

  84. Zash has left

  85. Zash has joined

  86. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  87. Zash


  88. Ge0rG


  89. jonas’

    dwd sent apologies

  90. jonas’

    do we get a daniel?

  91. Zash

    If I dissapear then my laptop probably died.

  92. daniel

    Yes I'm here

  93. jonas’


  94. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  95. jonas’


  96. Ge0rG

    I haven't managed to do any of the nice tasks I planned, like segmenting 0401

  97. jonas’

    assuming no

  98. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update - Welcomed Martin Dosch as editor

  99. jonas’

    4) Items for voting None.

  100. jonas’

    5) Pending Votes

  101. jonas’

    Ge0rG, do you want to vote on MR!25, the User tune thing today?

  102. jonas’

    (you have time until next week I think)

  103. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I haven't managed to catch up on that, sorry.

  104. jonas’

    also, pretty please vote, otherwise I’ll have to look up exactly how our bylaws regulate this awful edge case :P

  105. jonas’

    with either +1 or -1, don’t vote 0, that’s not helpful ;-)

  106. Ge0rG


  107. jonas’

    but ok, moving on then

  108. jonas’

    6) Date of Next

  109. jonas’

    +1w wfm, without caveats (that I know of) from my side for a change

  110. daniel

    Yes that should work for me as well

  111. Zash

    +1w wfm

  112. jonas’

    good enough, I suppose

  113. jonas’

    7) AOB

  114. jonas’

    7a) Election Season

  115. Ge0rG


  116. jonas’

    I note that out of current council, only daniel and me have put up an application so far.

  117. jonas’

    Out of curiosity, where do the other members stand? do you intend to reapply and haven’t gotten around yet? still contemplating? hard no?

  118. Zash

    Does anyone want me to continue?

  119. Zash

    Mostly just busy with other stuff or too exhausted to do anything.

  120. jonas’

    Zash, I think you do regularly add valuable bits to the discussions.

  121. jonas’

    also, with the current lineup, we have 0 server developers.

  122. jonas’

    but if you don’t feel comfortable with doing it, I wouldn’t want to pressure you into anything.

  123. Zash

    I'd appreciate a reminder (when I'm at home with access to all my credentials)

  124. jonas’

    I’ll try to arrange for that.

  125. jonas’

    Ge0rG, any word on that matter?

  126. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I'd like to continue, even though I have had less time this year than last one.

  127. jonas’

    okay, I see, thank you

  128. Ge0rG

    I suppose I need to fill out my application before it's too late

  129. jonas’

    I’d also say that you add value to the discussions.

  130. jonas’

    yes, you do :)

  131. Zash

    The thing eating all my time should end Soon:tm: too, hope to have more time then.

  132. Ge0rG

    but maybe a last-second application will encourage newcomers to candidate

  133. Zash

    (like, early next year)

  134. jonas’

    Zash, I wish you all the best for that

  135. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  136. Zash

    I got nothing.

  137. Ge0rG

    I'd like to add a <delay> element into the non-normative example of MUC subject delivery

  138. jonas’

    Ge0rG, there is no delay element? :-O

  139. moparisthebest has joined

  140. Ge0rG

    jonas’: no

  141. Ge0rG

    it's probably straight-forward, but one could argue that it belongs into 0203 instead

  142. jonas’

    MUC never ceases to amaze me

  143. daniel

    And servers don't usually add that

  144. Zash

    Ge0rG, seen anything in the wild doing this? I think I have

  145. daniel

    Last I checked

  146. jonas’

    daniel, they don’-?

  147. jonas’

    daniel, they don’t?

  148. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I was as shocked as you when I realized it isn't there

  149. jonas’

    Ge0rG, it most certainly belongs in '45

  150. Ge0rG

    ...when I wanted to tell the Bifröst devs that it's a good practice.

  151. daniel

    No. I once wanted to place the subject where it belongs in history

  152. daniel

    And that didn't work

  153. Ge0rG

    daniel: prosody will send a delay

  154. Zash

    Does it?

  155. daniel

    Mhhh maybe that's a recent thing?

  156. jonas’

    daniel, placing the subject in the place where it belongs in the history doesn’t really work in all cases (only approximating it if the subject is older than the oldest bit of history retrieved via classic history)

  157. daniel

    I last checked a few years ago

  158. Zash

    Should subject go in MAM?

  159. daniel

    jonas’: yes. But having a delay tag would at least allow you do try this with some considerations

  160. Ge0rG

    Zash: subject changes should. The interesting question is whether they should expire together with regular messages

  161. Ge0rG

    speaking of MAM, it recommends to store 'groupchat' messages into user archives.

  162. daniel

    Don't we need this for mix anyway?

  163. Zash

    It should probably handwave something about support for it.

  164. adityaborikar has left

  165. Ge0rG

    daniel: no, and I'm not going to stop my opposition to that until somebody works out how to resync after any kind of s2s outage

  166. Zash

    Heck you could save everything, PEP notifications even.

  167. Ge0rG

    leave pep. out of my MAM!

  168. pep.


  169. jonas’

    so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included

  170. daniel

    > so I’d be strongly in favour of specifying that a delay element SHOULD be included +1

  171. jonas’

    I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even.

  172. Ge0rG

    jonas’: that's a normative change!

  173. daniel

    > I’d be ok with doing that outside of the example even. +1

  174. jonas’

    clients will see whether the <delay/> is there or not

  175. jonas’

    Ge0rG, let me finish :)

  176. jonas’

    and clients which don’t expect <delay/> are doomed anyway, because it can be added by anyone

  177. Zash

    +1 to this whole notion

  178. Ge0rG

    jonas’: somebody is going to demand a feature var for that.

  179. jonas’

    and if we then also add a note that you cannot rely on <delay/> being there because it didn’t exist in MUC < version X.YZ, it’s ok.

  180. Ge0rG

    also +1 in case we are Formally Voting

  181. jonas’

    Ge0rG, then we add one and make them happy

  182. jonas’

    we’re not formally voting, we have nothing to vote on ;)

  183. jonas’

    someone should prepare a text, which I may do after this meeting

  184. Ge0rG

    yeah right.

  185. Ge0rG

    jonas’: that'd be splendid, as I lacked the time to do it since I discovered this strange omission

  186. jonas’

    will do, I have the file open already

  187. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  188. daniel

    None here

  189. Ge0rG


  190. jonas’


  191. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  192. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  193. Zash

    Thanks jonas’

  194. Ge0rG

    thanks jonas’, thanks theTedd

  195. daniel

    Thanks jonas’

  196. Zash

    Thanks Tedd!

  197. Lance has joined

  198. adityaborikar has joined

  199. jonas’

    FTR: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/29 https://xsf.gitlab.io/-/xeps/-/jobs/817295433/artifacts/rendered-changes/xep-0045.html#enter-subject

  200. Ge0rG

    ah, right. subject @from is the user, delay @from is the MUC because manipulation

  201. jonas’


  202. Ge0rG

    jonas’: 👍

  203. Wojtek has joined

  204. B has left

  205. B has joined

  206. B has left

  207. B has joined

  208. sonny has left

  209. sonny has joined

  210. Ge0rG

    While we are at it, we should change XEP-0118 to use the new integer-or-max field type for the `rating` element.

  211. Zash

    Shouldn't rating be in the 0..1 range?

  212. Ge0rG

    maybe, but then we'd need a float-or-max type

  213. Zash

    why max?

  214. Ge0rG

    because your favorite song should have the max rating

  215. sonny has left

  216. sonny has joined

  217. B has left

  218. B has joined

  219. neox has left

  220. neox has joined

  221. neox has left

  222. neox has joined

  223. Zash has left

  224. Zash has joined

  225. Zash


  226. Tobias has left

  227. sonny has left

  228. sonny has joined

  229. sonny has left

  230. sonny has joined

  231. paul has left