XMPP Council - 2020-11-04

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  217. Ge0rG

    Uh-oh, Wednesday!

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  219. jonas’


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  221. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

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  223. jonas’

    Ge0rG, daniel, dwd, Zash

  224. dwd

    Bacon and cheese, please.

  225. jonas’


  226. daniel


  227. Zash


  228. jonas’

    good thing that Burgers are on the shopping list for tomorrow!

  229. jonas’

    assuming that Ge0rG will hop in again…

  230. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  231. Ge0rG is still hanging in a phone conference

  232. jonas’


  233. Ge0rG

    initially I wanted to add my 0401 changes, but those don't depend on Council

  234. jonas’


  235. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update

  236. jonas’

    I fgorgot to update that section in the email...

  237. dwd

    Welcome mdosch again?

  238. jonas’

    The LC for XEP-0443 (XMPP Compliance Suites 2021) ended

  239. Zash


  240. jonas’

    which also means that we add another agendum: Decide on advancement of XEP-0443

  241. jonas’

    yep, it was started two weeks ago so that we can vote on it in this meeting ;-)

  242. jonas’

    4) Items for voting

  243. jonas’

    4a) MR!29: XEP-0045: specify use of <delay/> in subject message URL: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/29 Rendered-Version: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/jobs/817295433/artifacts/file/rendered-changes/xep-0045.html

  244. jonas’

    as discussed last week

  245. jonas’

    I am +1 on this

  246. Zash


  247. dwd

    +1, I thought we did this. Or that someone did this at least.

  248. daniel


  249. jonas’

    dwd, everyone thinks so, but it’s not written down anywhere

  250. dwd

    daniel, Fancy.

  251. jonas’

    I’m assuming that Ge0rG will vote late due to his conference.

  252. Ge0rG


  253. jonas’


  254. jonas’

    4b) Proposed XMPP Extension: Pre-Authenticated In-Band Registration URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html Abstract: This document extends the In-Band-Registration protocol to use invitation tokens, e.g. for registering accounts on non-public servers.

  255. Ge0rG

    surprisingly +1

  256. Zash


  257. Ge0rG

    Also thanks Dave for the review and on-list feedback

  258. daniel

    on list

  259. jonas’

    on-list, too

  260. Zash

    on list

  261. dwd

    I need to think a bit on this one, sorry. Sam's comments raise further thoughts.

  262. jonas’

    dwd, thanks for the namespace note, I’ll add it to the spreadsheet for the editors to take care of

  263. dwd

    jonas’, I might be persuaded on the namespace, actually.

  264. Ge0rG

    I like that namespace.

  265. Ge0rG

    see list discussion

  266. jonas’

    yep, will add a note to "see list discussion" :)

  267. jonas’

    dwd, i take that as "on list"?

  268. Ge0rG

    Sam made a very generic point that applies to all of the pre-authenticated phase.

  269. dwd

    jonas’, Yes.

  270. jonas’

    4c) Decide on Advancement of XEP-0443 (XMPP Compliance Suites 2021) URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0443.html

  271. jonas’


  272. Ge0rG

    there was some feedback today

  273. jonas’

    There were comments during the LC which should be addressed

  274. jonas’

    one way or the other

  275. jonas’

    well, not actually *during* the LC

  276. jonas’

    but close enough, given the intent of this LC anyway

  277. Ge0rG

    There were two Last Calls?

  278. jonas’


  279. Zash

    One from a few days ago

  280. Ge0rG

    Or maybe just two emails, one at the beginning and one at the end, using the same template

  281. daniel

    there was feedback today?

  282. jonas’

    two emails

  283. jonas’

    yeah, but the same ending date

  284. jonas’

    strange stuff happened in the automation yesterday

  285. Ge0rG

    a mail sent yesterday 15:54:11, advertising the end of the LC for eob on the same day

  286. Zash

    Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 15:54:11 -0000 From: XEP Editor Pipeline <xep-editor-pipeline@zombofant.net>

  287. jonas’

    yeah, sorry for that noise

  288. jonas’


  289. daniel

    oh that thread got flagged as spam

  290. jonas’

    <editor-hat>daniel, I’d be interested to hear if you can provide details as to why, later</editor-hat>

  291. daniel

    just martins mail

  292. daniel

    not editors email

  293. dwd

    Ah, I've not seen that thread either. I'll have to therefore be on-list.

  294. jonas’

    so we had LC feedback from both daniel and martin, which Ge0rG will hopefully address

  295. Ge0rG

    jonas’: of course I will.

  296. jonas’

    and thus I don’t think it makes sense to vote on this now

  297. moparisthebest

    (likely spf+dkim list misconfiguration still)

  298. Ge0rG

    I'd also like to see *more* feedback on the LC, even given that nobody cares about it.

  299. Ge0rG

    it = Compliance Suites

  300. jonas’

    Ge0rG, are you sure? ;-) The last time was burn-outy

  301. daniel

    Ge0rG, what kind of feedback are you looking for?

  302. jonas’

    anyway, moving on

  303. jonas’

    (we can have that discussion as AOB or outside of this meeting)

  304. Ge0rG

    daniel: are there any XEPs missing, should some XEPs be removed?

  305. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  306. dwd

    I forget, do we have the Jingle bits in the compliance suite now?

  307. daniel


  308. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  309. jonas’

    +1w wfm, I hope I’ll not miss it (because it’s a local holiday)

  310. daniel

    +1w wfm

  311. jonas’

    no wait, that’s the week after, nevermind

  312. jonas’

    so +1w wfm, unconditionally

  313. Zash

    +1w wfm

  314. Ge0rG

    jonas’: well, 11/11 is also a local holiday in some parts of Germany ;)

  315. dwd

    I'm potentially moving house next week, but hopefully I'll make the meeting.

  316. jonas’

    dwd, good luck!

  317. jonas’

    6) AOB

  318. dwd

    jonas’, No luck involved - we have the house now - just a matter of deciding when.

  319. jonas’

    dwd, IME, luck is involved when moving, one way or the other :)

  320. jonas’

    6a) Election season I note that there are more applications now, which is nice :)

  321. jonas’

    any other AOB or points to this AOB?

  322. Ge0rG

    0401, CS21

  323. jonas’ hands the mic to Ge0rG

  324. Ge0rG

    6b) Compliance Suite 2021

  325. dwd

    (I hear there's some other election on at the moment too)

  326. daniel

    there is?

  327. jonas’

    dwd, don’t

  328. Ge0rG

    daniel: thanks very much for your A/V additions and the LC feedback; I'm looking for feedback regarding further XEPs that should be added, XEPs that should be moved from non-normative to normative and XEPs that might be removed

  329. Ge0rG

    like e.g. XEP-0425 was proposed by mdosch

  330. Ge0rG

    it's Experimental, but it might be a good addition for Advanced IM

  331. daniel

    i think we lack experience on that one. especially but not just because it uses fastening

  332. Zash

    Under Future development perhaps then?

  333. daniel

    that might be interesting

  334. jonas’

    +1 on that

  335. Ge0rG

    I think it was implemented in Converse and everybody else ignored it.

  336. Ge0rG

    okay, noted for the non-normative part of IM

  337. Zash

    (There's a Prosody module for it)

  338. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I thought for Future Dev, not for non-normative IM?

  339. dwd

    I'm going to have to head off, I'm afraid - someone's arrived a bit early - but I'll commit to going through the suite.

  340. Ge0rG

    dwd: thanks!

  341. Ge0rG

    jonas’: roger, will add it to "Future Dev".

  342. jonas’

    dwd, thanks, have a nice evening!

  343. Ge0rG

    I'd like to kindly ask each Council member to review the XEPs that were touched in the last year for inclusion into CS.

  344. Zash

    Got a list?

  345. jonas’

    Ge0rG, would you also like to kindly ask the Editor to provide such a list?

  346. Ge0rG

    jonas’: that'd be awesome.

  347. jonas’

    mdosch, ^ do you want to take that on?

  348. Ge0rG

    I think the Editors can clarify the next steps off-meeting

  349. jonas’


  350. Ge0rG


  351. Ge0rG

    6c) XEP-0401 and ibr-token

  352. Ge0rG

    I actually intended to ask Dave for some more feedback, but this will have to happen on-list now

  353. jonas’

    Does ibr-token document what snikket does?

  354. Ge0rG

    jonas’: yes

  355. Zash

    So how is the intended relation between those three XEPs?

  356. jonas’


  357. Ge0rG

    Zash: the third one being?

  358. Zash


  359. Ge0rG

    0379 is the roster-adding part, ibr-token is the account-creation part, and 0401 is the one putting it all together

  360. Ge0rG

    or maybe just pulling tokens via ad-hoc

  361. Ge0rG

    I'm not 100% sure yet

  362. Zash

    I note there's conflicting overlap with 401, is this what the change you mentioned addresses?

  363. Ge0rG

    I had some slight disagreement with the 0401 author about the direction, and I'm not yet confident how we will resolve that

  364. jonas’

    Zash, for that, note https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/33

  365. Ge0rG

    Zash: anything IBR got removed from 0401 in ^

  366. Zash

    As I think I've stated before, I very much would like all this moved onto IBR2 in the The Future™

  367. mdosch

    > I'd like to kindly ask each Council member to review the XEPs that were touched in the last year for inclusion into CS. > mdosch, ^ do you want to take that on? I'll do. 😃

  368. Zash

    Once SASL2, IBR2 etc is in shape

  369. Ge0rG

    Zash: yes, that's the goal. We'll reference IBR2 / SASL2 / XMPP2-IBR / TODO:TODO in 0401 once that's ready

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  371. Ge0rG

    but until somebody starts working on it, we have the status quo documented in ibr-token and referenced from 0401

  372. jonas’


  373. jonas’

    more can happen in the protoxep thread on lit, I think

  374. jonas’

    more can happen in the protoxep thread on list, I think

  375. Ge0rG

    I'm pretty sure that some people will prevent ibr-token from ever passing Experimental, but I'm fine with that

  376. Ge0rG hands the mic to jonas’

  377. jonas’


  378. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  379. jonas’

    7) Ite Meeting Est

  380. jonas’

    thanks evryone

  381. Ge0rG

    thanks jonas’, thanks Tedd, thanks everyone

  382. Zash

    Tanks jonas’, all, Tedd

  383. daniel

    thanks all

  384. Ge0rG

    Zash: no tanks please

  385. Ge0rG

    I really hope that we can get through the election without violence.

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