XMPP Council - 2020-11-04

  1. Ge0rG

    Uh-oh, Wednesday!

  2. jonas’


  3. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  4. jonas’

    Ge0rG, daniel, dwd, Zash

  5. dwd

    Bacon and cheese, please.

  6. jonas’


  7. daniel


  8. Zash


  9. jonas’

    good thing that Burgers are on the shopping list for tomorrow!

  10. jonas’

    assuming that Ge0rG will hop in again…

  11. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  12. Ge0rG is still hanging in a phone conference

  13. jonas’


  14. Ge0rG

    initially I wanted to add my 0401 changes, but those don't depend on Council

  15. jonas’


  16. jonas’

    3) Editor’s Update

  17. jonas’

    I fgorgot to update that section in the email...

  18. dwd

    Welcome mdosch again?

  19. jonas’

    The LC for XEP-0443 (XMPP Compliance Suites 2021) ended

  20. Zash


  21. jonas’

    which also means that we add another agendum: Decide on advancement of XEP-0443

  22. jonas’

    yep, it was started two weeks ago so that we can vote on it in this meeting ;-)

  23. jonas’

    4) Items for voting

  24. jonas’

    4a) MR!29: XEP-0045: specify use of <delay/> in subject message URL: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/29 Rendered-Version: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/jobs/817295433/artifacts/file/rendered-changes/xep-0045.html

  25. jonas’

    as discussed last week

  26. jonas’

    I am +1 on this

  27. Zash


  28. dwd

    +1, I thought we did this. Or that someone did this at least.

  29. daniel


  30. jonas’

    dwd, everyone thinks so, but it’s not written down anywhere

  31. dwd

    daniel, Fancy.

  32. jonas’

    I’m assuming that Ge0rG will vote late due to his conference.

  33. Ge0rG


  34. jonas’


  35. jonas’

    4b) Proposed XMPP Extension: Pre-Authenticated In-Band Registration URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html Abstract: This document extends the In-Band-Registration protocol to use invitation tokens, e.g. for registering accounts on non-public servers.

  36. Ge0rG

    surprisingly +1

  37. Zash


  38. Ge0rG

    Also thanks Dave for the review and on-list feedback

  39. daniel

    on list

  40. jonas’

    on-list, too

  41. Zash

    on list

  42. dwd

    I need to think a bit on this one, sorry. Sam's comments raise further thoughts.

  43. jonas’

    dwd, thanks for the namespace note, I’ll add it to the spreadsheet for the editors to take care of

  44. dwd

    jonas’, I might be persuaded on the namespace, actually.

  45. Ge0rG

    I like that namespace.

  46. Ge0rG

    see list discussion

  47. jonas’

    yep, will add a note to "see list discussion" :)

  48. jonas’

    dwd, i take that as "on list"?

  49. Ge0rG

    Sam made a very generic point that applies to all of the pre-authenticated phase.

  50. dwd

    jonas’, Yes.

  51. jonas’

    4c) Decide on Advancement of XEP-0443 (XMPP Compliance Suites 2021) URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0443.html

  52. jonas’


  53. Ge0rG

    there was some feedback today

  54. jonas’

    There were comments during the LC which should be addressed

  55. jonas’

    one way or the other

  56. jonas’

    well, not actually *during* the LC

  57. jonas’

    but close enough, given the intent of this LC anyway

  58. Ge0rG

    There were two Last Calls?

  59. jonas’


  60. Zash

    One from a few days ago

  61. Ge0rG

    Or maybe just two emails, one at the beginning and one at the end, using the same template

  62. daniel

    there was feedback today?

  63. jonas’

    two emails

  64. jonas’

    yeah, but the same ending date

  65. jonas’

    strange stuff happened in the automation yesterday

  66. Ge0rG

    a mail sent yesterday 15:54:11, advertising the end of the LC for eob on the same day

  67. Zash

    Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 15:54:11 -0000 From: XEP Editor Pipeline <xep-editor-pipeline@zombofant.net>

  68. jonas’

    yeah, sorry for that noise

  69. jonas’


  70. daniel

    oh that thread got flagged as spam

  71. jonas’

    <editor-hat>daniel, I’d be interested to hear if you can provide details as to why, later</editor-hat>

  72. daniel

    just martins mail

  73. daniel

    not editors email

  74. dwd

    Ah, I've not seen that thread either. I'll have to therefore be on-list.

  75. jonas’

    so we had LC feedback from both daniel and martin, which Ge0rG will hopefully address

  76. Ge0rG

    jonas’: of course I will.

  77. jonas’

    and thus I don’t think it makes sense to vote on this now

  78. moparisthebest

    (likely spf+dkim list misconfiguration still)

  79. Ge0rG

    I'd also like to see *more* feedback on the LC, even given that nobody cares about it.

  80. Ge0rG

    it = Compliance Suites

  81. jonas’

    Ge0rG, are you sure? ;-) The last time was burn-outy

  82. daniel

    Ge0rG, what kind of feedback are you looking for?

  83. jonas’

    anyway, moving on

  84. jonas’

    (we can have that discussion as AOB or outside of this meeting)

  85. Ge0rG

    daniel: are there any XEPs missing, should some XEPs be removed?

  86. jonas’

    5) Date of Next

  87. dwd

    I forget, do we have the Jingle bits in the compliance suite now?

  88. daniel


  89. Ge0rG

    +1W WFM

  90. jonas’

    +1w wfm, I hope I’ll not miss it (because it’s a local holiday)

  91. daniel

    +1w wfm

  92. jonas’

    no wait, that’s the week after, nevermind

  93. jonas’

    so +1w wfm, unconditionally

  94. Zash

    +1w wfm

  95. Ge0rG

    jonas’: well, 11/11 is also a local holiday in some parts of Germany ;)

  96. dwd

    I'm potentially moving house next week, but hopefully I'll make the meeting.

  97. jonas’

    dwd, good luck!

  98. jonas’

    6) AOB

  99. dwd

    jonas’, No luck involved - we have the house now - just a matter of deciding when.

  100. jonas’

    dwd, IME, luck is involved when moving, one way or the other :)

  101. jonas’

    6a) Election season I note that there are more applications now, which is nice :)

  102. jonas’

    any other AOB or points to this AOB?

  103. Ge0rG

    0401, CS21

  104. jonas’ hands the mic to Ge0rG

  105. Ge0rG

    6b) Compliance Suite 2021

  106. dwd

    (I hear there's some other election on at the moment too)

  107. daniel

    there is?

  108. jonas’

    dwd, don’t

  109. Ge0rG

    daniel: thanks very much for your A/V additions and the LC feedback; I'm looking for feedback regarding further XEPs that should be added, XEPs that should be moved from non-normative to normative and XEPs that might be removed

  110. Ge0rG

    like e.g. XEP-0425 was proposed by mdosch

  111. Ge0rG

    it's Experimental, but it might be a good addition for Advanced IM

  112. daniel

    i think we lack experience on that one. especially but not just because it uses fastening

  113. Zash

    Under Future development perhaps then?

  114. daniel

    that might be interesting

  115. jonas’

    +1 on that

  116. Ge0rG

    I think it was implemented in Converse and everybody else ignored it.

  117. Ge0rG

    okay, noted for the non-normative part of IM

  118. Zash

    (There's a Prosody module for it)

  119. jonas’

    Ge0rG, I thought for Future Dev, not for non-normative IM?

  120. dwd

    I'm going to have to head off, I'm afraid - someone's arrived a bit early - but I'll commit to going through the suite.

  121. Ge0rG

    dwd: thanks!

  122. Ge0rG

    jonas’: roger, will add it to "Future Dev".

  123. jonas’

    dwd, thanks, have a nice evening!

  124. Ge0rG

    I'd like to kindly ask each Council member to review the XEPs that were touched in the last year for inclusion into CS.

  125. Zash

    Got a list?

  126. jonas’

    Ge0rG, would you also like to kindly ask the Editor to provide such a list?

  127. Ge0rG

    jonas’: that'd be awesome.

  128. jonas’

    mdosch, ^ do you want to take that on?

  129. Ge0rG

    I think the Editors can clarify the next steps off-meeting

  130. jonas’


  131. Ge0rG


  132. Ge0rG

    6c) XEP-0401 and ibr-token

  133. Ge0rG

    I actually intended to ask Dave for some more feedback, but this will have to happen on-list now

  134. jonas’

    Does ibr-token document what snikket does?

  135. Ge0rG

    jonas’: yes

  136. Zash

    So how is the intended relation between those three XEPs?

  137. jonas’


  138. Ge0rG

    Zash: the third one being?

  139. Zash


  140. Ge0rG

    0379 is the roster-adding part, ibr-token is the account-creation part, and 0401 is the one putting it all together

  141. Ge0rG

    or maybe just pulling tokens via ad-hoc

  142. Ge0rG

    I'm not 100% sure yet

  143. Zash

    I note there's conflicting overlap with 401, is this what the change you mentioned addresses?

  144. Ge0rG

    I had some slight disagreement with the 0401 author about the direction, and I'm not yet confident how we will resolve that

  145. jonas’

    Zash, for that, note https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/33

  146. Ge0rG

    Zash: anything IBR got removed from 0401 in ^

  147. Zash

    As I think I've stated before, I very much would like all this moved onto IBR2 in the The Future™

  148. mdosch

    > I'd like to kindly ask each Council member to review the XEPs that were touched in the last year for inclusion into CS. > mdosch, ^ do you want to take that on? I'll do. 😃

  149. Zash

    Once SASL2, IBR2 etc is in shape

  150. Ge0rG

    Zash: yes, that's the goal. We'll reference IBR2 / SASL2 / XMPP2-IBR / TODO:TODO in 0401 once that's ready

  151. Ge0rG

    but until somebody starts working on it, we have the status quo documented in ibr-token and referenced from 0401

  152. jonas’


  153. jonas’

    more can happen in the protoxep thread on lit, I think

  154. jonas’

    more can happen in the protoxep thread on list, I think

  155. Ge0rG

    I'm pretty sure that some people will prevent ibr-token from ever passing Experimental, but I'm fine with that

  156. Ge0rG hands the mic to jonas’

  157. jonas’


  158. jonas’

    any other AOB?

  159. jonas’

    7) Ite Meeting Est

  160. jonas’

    thanks evryone

  161. Ge0rG

    thanks jonas’, thanks Tedd, thanks everyone

  162. Zash

    Tanks jonas’, all, Tedd

  163. daniel

    thanks all

  164. Ge0rG

    Zash: no tanks please

  165. Ge0rG

    I really hope that we can get through the election without violence.