XMPP Council - 2021-03-24

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  66. Ge0rG Is it the day and time again?
  67. jonas’ yes
  68. jonas’ 1) Roll Call
  69. Zash Hello
  70. Lance has joined
  71. daniel Hi
  72. dwd Hiya
  73. Ge0rG ,o/
  74. jonas’ \o/
  75. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  76. jonas’ did I miss anything?
  77. jonas’ my MUA hasn’t caught up to anything from today yet, I just opened the laptop
  78. jonas’ And, as introduced last week, please raise any AOB flags right during the meeting :)
  79. jonas’ 3) Editor’s Update
  80. jonas’ - Georg Lukas added as author to '280
  81. jonas’ - Last Call for '280, though I didn’t get around to send the emails yet
  82. Zash Might be sensible to not have too long overlap with the 313 one
  83. jonas’ fixed that
  84. jonas’ '313 ends next week, that’s ok IMO
  85. jonas’ also might be sensible to discuss both in parallel for some time
  86. jonas’ 4) Items for Voting
  87. jonas’ I don’t know of any
  88. jonas’ 5) Pending Votes
  89. jonas’ Ge0rG.
  90. Ge0rG I vote +1
  91. jonas’ to both?
  92. dwd Ge0rG, For anything in particular?
  93. Ge0rG I should have looked into the meeting minutes.
  94. jonas’ yes
  95. Ge0rG Haven't I voted on PR#1044 last week?
  96. jonas’ I don’t have it on record
  97. Ge0rG Haven't you merged it in the meantime?
  98. jonas’ 16:11:49 Ge0rG> Thanks fippo! I'll read it up ASAP.
  99. jonas’ that’s the last I’ve gotten from you
  100. Zash > Anyway, I'll try to vote PR#1044 before that.
  101. Ge0rG jonas’: in that case +1 on PR#1044
  102. jonas’ \o/
  103. jonas’ and the protoxep?
  104. Ge0rG and +1 on Content Ratings ProtoXEP
  105. jonas’ thanks
  106. jonas’ 6) Date of Next
  107. jonas’ I propose +1w - 1h
  108. jonas’ i.e. 15:00Z next wednesday
  109. Zash Outch, owie, my head
  110. Ge0rG jonas’: because it happens to be 17:00 CEST?
  111. dwd +1w-1h wfm.
  112. jonas’ Ge0rG, yes
  113. jonas’ as europe transitions to DST on march 28th
  114. daniel +1
  115. Ge0rG +1
  116. Zash +1, wfm
  117. jonas’ excellent
  118. jonas’ 7) AOB
  119. jonas’ brief chance for anyone I might’ve missed to speak up
  120. Ge0rG Some things were brought up on xsf@ today
  121. jonas’ I did not read any of those
  122. jonas’ is there anything we should discuss?
  123. Ge0rG it was proposed to deprecate 0013 and/or to create a replacement for it in the context of MAM
  124. jonas’ ISTR this discussion has happened before
  125. daniel That's probably something for next week
  126. daniel It literally just came up five minutes ago
  127. Ge0rG Well, that was discussed repeatedly over the last years, with the conclusion of finally tackling it inside of bind2 at next summit™
  128. Zash The post-covid summit?
  129. daniel I'm looking forward to the next summit
  130. Ge0rG Zash: it was actually a number of pre-covid next summits.
  131. Ge0rG earliest mention I can find is from April 2015.
  132. jonas’ seems realistic
  133. Ge0rG not specifically of 0013, but of the MAM function that it "replaces" in a hacky way.
  134. Kev FWIW, it’s already covered inside bind 2 and has been for some time.
  135. Kev You can argue whether bind2 itself is right, but it does cover the ‘skip offline messages, because MAM’ thing.
  136. Ge0rG Kev: inside of the bind2 XEP that exists on xmpp.org or inside of somebody's head?
  137. Kev Inside XEP-0386
  138. Kev "Clear the offline messages for this user, if any, without sending them (as they will be provided by MAM)."
  139. jonas’ ACK
  140. jonas’ we "just" need some people to implement bind2 and iron out the edges
  141. jonas’ I think that would solve a bunch of things we really need to solve
  142. Zash and sasl2, and ibr2
  143. jonas’ but as usual…
  144. jonas’ yeah
  145. dwd FWIW, we've been using Inbox (or something aki to it) for a while and that appears to obviate offline messaging entirely.
  146. jonas’ XMPP 2.0 effectively
  147. jonas’ IM 2.0 is also in that problem area
  148. jonas’ at this point we should really consider a new RFC, shouldn’t we?
  149. Ge0rG jonas’: yes.
  150. daniel > XMPP 2.0 effectively > IM 2.0 is also in that problem area > at this point we should really consider a new RFC, shouldn’t we? Can we make it REST?
  151. Ge0rG unless the tribal knowledge of creating new XMPP RFCs has been lost.
  152. Kev I’m not sure, because you still want compatibility with everything that needs bind1 etc.
  153. jonas’ then again, many of those changes are IM-centric and irrelevant for IoT usecases
  154. jonas’ daniel, did you say Matrix?
  155. Sam Please consider discussing it next week anyways, I believe there is real harm to recommending a spec that has significant overlap with MAM just to get one tiny feature, and no real harm in deprecating it. We can discuss all this other stuff too of course, but we shouldn't put off the deprecating discussion for it or we'll never do anything every again until XMPP 2.0 is written :)
  156. Ge0rG jonas’: so we need a new XMPP-IM RFC
  157. jonas’ Ge0rG, but SASL etc. is XMPP-Core
  158. jonas’ IBR and IM-Routing are not, obviously
  159. Kev You can’t get rid of sasl1. Not in a sensible way in the near (decade+) future.
  160. jonas’ Sam, in case I forget to add it to the agenda next week, could you remind me?
  161. Ge0rG jonas’: indeed. I'd leave sasl2 out as rather orthogonal to the others.
  162. Sam jonas’: will do, when would you like your reminder? (or when do you write the agenda?)
  163. Zash But can we get rid of XEP-0078?!
  164. jonas’ Ge0rG, Bind is Core, too
  165. jonas’ Sam, tuesday
  166. Ge0rG bind2 + MAM + Carbons2 sounds like a good IM package though
  167. Sam Adding a reminder to send you a reminder :)
  168. jonas’ hah
  169. jonas’ thanks
  170. jonas’ Ge0rG, + IM0NG
  171. jonas’ Ge0rG, + IM-NG
  172. jonas’ well, that’s carbons2
  173. Ge0rG jonas’: right, that too
  174. Ge0rG MAM subscription would be a good replacement for carbons and somewhat also to 0198
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  176. jonas’ either way
  177. jonas’ nothing we can solve in this session, can we?
  178. Ge0rG nope
  179. Sam It might also be interesting to discuss whether this particular thing (or other stuff bind2 does) belong in bind2 or if eg. MAM should say "if using bind2 and MAM, also do this"
  180. jonas’ MAM should say nothing about bind2, because we want MAM to go to draft before bind2
  181. jonas’ not principally, but because bind2 is not going to move to draft any time soon and MAM really should
  182. Sam sorry, just realized meeting isn't officially over. Peanut gallery shutting up.
  183. Ge0rG Sam: IMO, bind2 doesn't go far enough in MAM integration, I'd rather have the client (optionally) indicate its last known MAM message ID and receive a MAM push of everything that's missing since.
  184. jonas’ any other AOB?
  185. jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est please move remaining discussions about the XMPP 2.0 topic field -> xsf@
  186. jonas’ thanks everyone
  187. Sam jonas’: yah, in this particular case that's definitely true
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