jonas’my MUA hasn’t caught up to anything from today yet, I just opened the laptop
jonas’And, as introduced last week, please raise any AOB flags right during the meeting :)
jonas’3) Editor’s Update
jonas’- Georg Lukas added as author to '280
jonas’- Last Call for '280, though I didn’t get around to send the emails yet
ZashMight be sensible to not have too long overlap with the 313 one
jonas’'313 ends next week, that’s ok IMO
jonas’also might be sensible to discuss both in parallel for some time
jonas’4) Items for Voting
jonas’I don’t know of any
jonas’5) Pending Votes
Ge0rGI vote +1
dwdGe0rG, For anything in particular?
Ge0rGI should have looked into the meeting minutes.
Ge0rGHaven't I voted on PR#1044 last week?
jonas’I don’t have it on record
Ge0rGHaven't you merged it in the meantime?
jonas’16:11:49 Ge0rG> Thanks fippo! I'll read it up ASAP.
jonas’that’s the last I’ve gotten from you
Zash> Anyway, I'll try to vote PR#1044 before that.
Ge0rGjonas’: in that case +1 on PR#1044
jonas’and the protoxep?
Ge0rGand +1 on Content Ratings ProtoXEP
jonas’6) Date of Next
jonas’I propose +1w - 1h
jonas’i.e. 15:00Z next wednesday
ZashOutch, owie, my head
Ge0rGjonas’: because it happens to be 17:00 CEST?
jonas’as europe transitions to DST on march 28th
jonas’brief chance for anyone I might’ve missed to speak up
Ge0rGSome things were brought up on xsf@ today
jonas’I did not read any of those
jonas’is there anything we should discuss?
Ge0rGit was proposed to deprecate 0013 and/or to create a replacement for it in the context of MAM
jonas’ISTR this discussion has happened before
danielThat's probably something for next week
danielIt literally just came up five minutes ago
Ge0rGWell, that was discussed repeatedly over the last years, with the conclusion of finally tackling it inside of bind2 at next summit™
ZashThe post-covid summit?
danielI'm looking forward to the next summit
Ge0rGZash: it was actually a number of pre-covid next summits.
Ge0rGearliest mention I can find is from April 2015.
Ge0rGnot specifically of 0013, but of the MAM function that it "replaces" in a hacky way.
KevFWIW, it’s already covered inside bind 2 and has been for some time.
KevYou can argue whether bind2 itself is right, but it does cover the ‘skip offline messages, because MAM’ thing.
Ge0rGKev: inside of the bind2 XEP that exists on xmpp.org or inside of somebody's head?
Kev"Clear the offline messages for this user, if any, without sending them (as they will be provided by MAM)."
jonas’we "just" need some people to implement bind2 and iron out the edges
jonas’I think that would solve a bunch of things we really need to solve
Zashand sasl2, and ibr2
jonas’but as usual…
dwdFWIW, we've been using Inbox (or something aki to it) for a while and that appears to obviate offline messaging entirely.
jonas’XMPP 2.0 effectively
jonas’IM 2.0 is also in that problem area
jonas’at this point we should really consider a new RFC, shouldn’t we?
daniel> XMPP 2.0 effectively
> IM 2.0 is also in that problem area
> at this point we should really consider a new RFC, shouldn’t we?
Can we make it REST?
Ge0rGunless the tribal knowledge of creating new XMPP RFCs has been lost.
KevI’m not sure, because you still want compatibility with everything that needs bind1 etc.
jonas’then again, many of those changes are IM-centric and irrelevant for IoT usecases
jonas’daniel, did you say Matrix?
SamPlease consider discussing it next week anyways, I believe there is real harm to recommending a spec that has significant overlap with MAM just to get one tiny feature, and no real harm in deprecating it. We can discuss all this other stuff too of course, but we shouldn't put off the deprecating discussion for it or we'll never do anything every again until XMPP 2.0 is written :)
Ge0rGjonas’: so we need a new XMPP-IM RFC
jonas’Ge0rG, but SASL etc. is XMPP-Core
jonas’IBR and IM-Routing are not, obviously
KevYou can’t get rid of sasl1. Not in a sensible way in the near (decade+) future.
jonas’Sam, in case I forget to add it to the agenda next week, could you remind me?
Ge0rGjonas’: indeed. I'd leave sasl2 out as rather orthogonal to the others.
Samjonas’: will do, when would you like your reminder? (or when do you write the agenda?)
ZashBut can we get rid of XEP-0078?!
jonas’Ge0rG, Bind is Core, too
Ge0rGbind2 + MAM + Carbons2 sounds like a good IM package though
SamAdding a reminder to send you a reminder :)
jonas’Ge0rG, + IM0NG
jonas’Ge0rG, + IM-NG
jonas’well, that’s carbons2
Ge0rGjonas’: right, that too
Ge0rGMAM subscription would be a good replacement for carbons and somewhat also to 0198
jonas’nothing we can solve in this session, can we?
SamIt might also be interesting to discuss whether this particular thing (or other stuff bind2 does) belong in bind2 or if eg. MAM should say "if using bind2 and MAM, also do this"
jonas’MAM should say nothing about bind2, because we want MAM to go to draft before bind2
jonas’not principally, but because bind2 is not going to move to draft any time soon and MAM really should