XMPP Council - 2021-06-16

Hi council, the 2020 Compliance Suites are still showing up as a draft standard. Please vote to fix. Thanks: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0423.html

This feels like a thing that should be automatic, but a quick scan of XEP-0001 says that's on advance to Final

> A Standards Track XEP is in the Final state after it has been in the Draft state for at least six (6) months, [...] That part feels a bit stressful with annual compliance suites...

I'm sure we discussed this, but shouldn't they just be informational?

No new protocol and they seem to define "best practices for implementation or deployment of an existing protocol"

It's been discussed. Changing it is up to Board since it's defined by XEP-0001.

and nobody cared enough to bring it to board ✏

XEP-0001 explicitly states that compliance suites are Standards Track

so that’d need changing

I mean, nobody has to bring it up separately right? Just change next years to experimental and vote as normal?

sounds like a PR for Board

oh, does it? Nevermind then

What we could do is try to hold a fixed schedule for compliance suites?

yah, maybe I'll propose some language. I suppose they could be standards track and just skip a few steps too

I wouldn't mind them being Informational, but I'm not the author any more!

Sam: explicitly writing down that they shall be informational is a Good Thing, isn't it?

Zash: I already tried that, without language forcing the matter nobody could agree in a timely manner.

Ge0rG: I don't see why it would matter, we might decide it was a mistake and want to switch later so I'd say let it be either

Zash: I also tried that, but calculating the required run-off times to publish a new Draft CS for Christmas was *hard*

The only reason it would be nice if they were informational is to skip "Draft" which is only nice because "Draft" is a confusing word

Sam: if we decide it was an error we can revert the change. Please don't make our protocols more vague

So maybe the answer is "propose changes to standards track process" and "propose automatic advancement/deferral of compliance suites"

It's not vague, it's at the authors discretion just like every other XEP

(or would be)

Could start with poking whomever needs poking to advance CS-2021 to Final?

I mean, I have no preference either way, informational just seems semantically correct but that's not worth making changes over at all as far as I'm concerned unless we're just happening to be messing with the process anyways

That should automatically obsolete CS-2020

"XEP may be approved provisionally and be assigned an expiration date", huh, I didn't remember that this was a thing

So we can already be doing this I guess

but Editor process!

Editor process? Isn't "do what council says" the editor process?

I had a tool somewhere that checked for XEPs that were out of date (experimental that needed to be deferred and what not) and more CI oriented things like missing revision blocks and what not. I should revive that and add compliance suites as a special case

👍

Moar automation!

`if title.startsWith("Compliance Suite ") ...`

*slap*

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ seems fine for a simple tool meant to be run on CI

(as long as time-based rules and problems that don't change are two steps so that the time-based or title-based ones that may have false positives aren't blocking CI)

It looks like it's almost time!

1) Roll Call

I was already anxiously hovering over the enter key

and I think I need to check my clocks

Hello

Hi

they both claim to be on ntp tho, so whatever

do we have a dwd today?

let’s see :)

2) Agenda Bashing

I hear that we need to do something about the CS-2020, but I’m not sure what we can do

obsolete them.

burn it with fire

we can CFE it, but realistically, nothing is going to happen there and it’s just noise in everyones inboxes

The 2021 ones have been draft for ages, why are there two?

ehh right, it’s 2021 already

^ that might be why

so I’ll add a vote to obsolete the CS-2020

Hiya, sorry, meeting overrunning.

I'll be sort-of paying some attention until it's done.

and we can think about what to do with the 2021 one because a CFE feels pointless and tiresome

dwd, good luck :)

3) Editor’s Update

* Proposed XMPP Extension: Pre-auth Registration Key Generation and Validation

4) Items for Voting

4a) PR#1064: XEP-0227: New revision 1.1 URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1064 Abstract: - Discourage inclusion of plaintext passwords - Document a format for including SCRAM data - Define data formats for PEP and MAM data

+1

+1

on-list

on-list

assuming dwd is going to be on-list because only sort-of paying some attention right now

4b) Deprecate and Obsolete XEP-0423: XMPP Compliance Suites 2020 URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0423.html

+1

+1

+1

Wait deprecate *and* obsolete?

yes

Isn't it either or?

no

Ok

we need to first deprecate before we can obsolete according to the graph in '1

Ah OK that makes sense

(I looked it up just before typing the 4b ;))

Ge0rG, ?

+1

Sorry

5) Pending Votes

the agenda mail was a lie, daniel is pending on https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1066

+1

\o/

thanks

6) Date of Next

+1w wfm

+1w wfm

I might not make it. But not worth rescheduling I guess

I guess we’ll gamble on quorum then :)

I think I'll make it

7) AOB

7a) Code of Conduct Experimental Procedural XEP

you may have noticed that there is that CoC XEP

May have, indeed.

Just wanna point it out in case you managed to miss it. Since the document calls members of board and council out specifically, it’s probably worth reading and discussing.

and also a note that it is only Experimental, not Active yet, as some seem to think.

anyway, we don’t need to discuss here, on-list (members@ or standards@) is the better place

any other AOB?

taking the silence and absence of typing chat states as a no

8) Ite Meeting Est

thanks everyone, thanks tedd :)

Does Dino even send typing notifications here?

Thanks Zash

thanks jonas’

Thanks Ge0rG

Thanks Zash