XMPP Council - 2021-08-18


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  82. jonas’ 1) Roll Call
  83. Zash Ohai
  84. daniel Hi
  85. jonas’ doorbell
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  88. jonas’ re
  89. jonas’ no Ge0rG, no dwd?
  90. jonas’ ah well, let's get started anyway
  91. jonas’ 2) Agenda Bashing
  92. jonas’ mention anything you dislike or would like to discuss at any time
  93. jonas’ 3) Editor's update
  94. jonas’ Nothing out of the ordinary.
  95. jonas’ 4) Items for Voting
  96. jonas’ 4a) PR#1096: XEP-0060: remove exception for last item when purging a node URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1096 List-Discussion: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2021-July/038465.html
  97. jonas’ there was not much feedback on-list
  98. Zash So, was this because it was non-controversial or ...
  99. jonas’ but goffi said they had discussed this in xsf@, too, does anyone know when that happened?
  100. Ge0rG good morning!
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  103. Ge0rG this looks like a normative change of the XEP, and I'd like to see feedback from server authors regarding whether it would affect existing code or not
  104. jonas’ https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-07-20#2021-07-20-8cc43b5511594941
  105. Zash I remember the discussion but not the exact time
  106. Zash No change in Prosody AFAIK
  107. Zash I approve, so +1, unless someone convinces me that it's too disruptive or somesuch.
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  110. jonas’ to me, the behaviour of not deleting all items is really contrary to the notion of "purge"
  111. jonas’ so I am also in favour of this change in general.
  112. jonas’ and I think that client implementations which need to be extra sure can just check afterward whether there's still an item left and delete that separately
  113. jonas’ ... which means that we need a note in the document which points at that
  114. jonas’ it'd be really nice to have a dwd here right now :)
  115. jonas’ ... but it seems that's not happening
  116. jonas’ Ge0rG, any vote?
  117. Zash It sounds like a codified implementation detail from something that may have been lost in time. (Said something like that at the time in https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-07-20#2021-07-20-f178a9019c1c52c2 )
  118. Ge0rG jonas’: I'd love to see more feedback from other servers
  119. Ge0rG I have a +1 tendency, but BREAKING CHANGE?!
  120. Zash ralphm commented approvingly further down in the logs linked
  121. daniel +1
  122. jonas’ <p class="box">Note: Some service may preserve the last item despite the purge request. In such a case and if an entity needs to be certain that all items have been deleted, a query for the remaining items after a purge combined with a deletion request should be used.</p>
  123. jonas’ how about adding that? ^
  124. Zash But delete removes the entire node (including all configuration), does it not?
  125. jonas’ then "item deletion request"
  126. jonas’ or retraction?
  127. jonas’ what's it called?
  128. Zash I think retraction is the correct term, if I understand what you're trying to accomplish
  129. jonas’ <p class="box">Note: Some service may preserve the last item despite the purge request. In such a case and if an entity needs to be certain that all items have been deleted, a query for the remaining items after a purge combined with a specific retraction request for the remaining items should be used.</p>
  130. jonas’ like that?
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  133. Zash Sounds good, but hacky, to me.
  134. jonas’ do we have another, less hacky, option?
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  136. jonas’ I guess I'll just propose that provocantly on the list and vote on-list
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  138. Zash Ge0rG, wanna poke the thread for more feedback?
  139. jonas’ Ge0rG, was that a formal vote?
  140. Zash I suppose Someone™ could do a survey of implementations to see if this is actually a thing that is done anywhere
  141. jonas’ I poked the thread, let's move on.
  142. jonas’ 5) Pending Votes
  143. jonas’ None
  144. jonas’ 6) Date of Next
  145. jonas’ +1w wfm
  146. Ge0rG jonas’: not a formal vote from me.
  147. jonas’ Ge0rG, thx
  148. Zash same time next week should work for me
  149. jonas’ Ge0rG?
  150. Ge0rG +1W WFM
  151. Ge0rG sorry, I've been hanging in an overlong phone conference
  152. daniel +1w wfm
  153. jonas’ thanks
  154. jonas’ 7) AOB
  155. jonas’ assuming none as none was requested so far
  156. jonas’ 8) Ite Meeting Est
  157. jonas’ thanks everyone
  158. Zash Thanks jonas’, all
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  163. Ge0rG thank you jonas’!
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