Ge0rGI had more than sufficient amount of coffee today.
Ge0rGWell, still not enough to compensate for the lack of sleep.
jonas’Ge0rG, your typing is surprisingly coherent for that
Zash(3 or 4)/5
jonas’well, let's get started
jonas’2) Agenda Bashing
jonas’it was a surprisingly on-time agenda
Ge0rGI like this kind of agendas.
jonas’3) Editor's Update
Ge0rGNot only on time, but also without additional workloads.
jonas’Draft is the new Stable
jonas’4) Items for voting
jonas’5) Pending Votes
- Dave on PR#1096 (XEP-0060: remove exception for last item when purging a
Ge0rGStable is the new Draft?
dwdHiya, sorry I'm late.
jonas’dwd, you're right on time to cast your vote :)
Ge0rGAnd there was sufficiently little discussion of which color the stable should have.
jonas’6) Date of Next
jonas’I might not make +1w
jonas’as it is the anniversary of my nickname change, and that needs to be celebrated accordingly
jonas’so it'd be good if someone could chair in my stead
jonas’I'll prepare an agenda though
jonas’perfect, you got the job
jonas’dwd, +1w wfy?
jonas’anyone got any?
jonas’Ge0rG, go ahead :)
jonas’you can have two, even
Ge0rG7a) Membership Reapplication: it's affecting two Council members. We should ensure that nobody is losing membership and puts Council into limbo
SamGe0rG: council people don't need to be members, iirc
jonas’the two affected being you and Zash if I see it correctly
jonas’Sam, you're confusing that with Board
jonas’Council needs membership
Ge0rG7b) Board and Council elections. Autumn has started. That means that some time soon there will be an election of the next Council.
Ge0rGWe should conclude all LCs prior to that.
ZashTime to review our yearly goals?
Ge0rGI'm _especially_ looking into the direction of CS-2021✎
Ge0rGI'm _especially_ looking into the direction of CS-2022 ✏
> All the individuals elected to participate on the XMPP Council must be Members of the Corporation.
Samoh wait, or is that board? yah, that still makes no sense and I mix it up every time. nevermind then.
jonas’Ge0rG, do you have any contact with the CS-2022 author?
Ge0rGBut I'm also looking into the general direction of XEP-0280, which got some LC feedback that still needs to be incorporated by its new owner, who is very much ashamed of the delay.
ZashYou could probably read it as needing to be a member at the time of election...
jonas’there are two options: either we have no open LCs or find-lcs.sh is broken.
jonas’ag also doesn't find anything
jonas’I think we actually don't have any open LCs.
jonas’Zash, next sentence goes on with "If a Council member resigns his or her membership in the Corporation, is removed from membership in the Corporation, or is terminated from membership in the Corporation, he or she shall thereby relinquish all rights and responsibilities as a member of the Council."
Ge0rGjonas’: I was looking into the direction of:
- LCs that we performed that need an update of the document
- LCs that we should perform before the New Council is elected
SamThat makes sense I guess
jonas’soo... do you have any specific LCs in mind which we should start in this term, except CS-2022?
Ge0rGmaybe we can find a volunteer to look into what Council has achieved in this year and what should still be followed upon
jonas’those which are pending on incorporation of feedback seem outside our control, right?
jonas’that's one of those, isn't it?
Ge0rGjonas’: well, it might be a good idea to ping the responsible persons
Ge0rGI'm trying to generalize here.
jonas’MAM (313) is another one
jonas’but I think it suffers from the same issue as 280
Ge0rGFor 0280 I'm very sure that some public pressure can resolve the situation.
jonas’so the only things we LC'd and did not advance this term are '280 and '313
Ge0rGAnd I think that we provided some useful feedback for both, making it possible to advance them with just minor updates?
jonas’Ge0rG, WheRE Is ThE F*CkInG UpDAtE, LeBowSKi?!
Ge0rGSo it would make sense to complete the process in this term?
jonas’Ge0rG, I don't think "factor out all the rules in a separate document" is a minor update?
Ge0rGjonas’: using a text editor that's capable of copy&paste, why not?
jonas’I think your '313 feedback was more than two pages long
jonas’it doesn't feel like minor update
jonas’if you think there is a minor update possibe, it would be best if *you* did that
jonas’or at least proposed wording
jonas’as you seem to have the tightest grasp of the *problems*, at least
Ge0rGjonas’: I didn't manage to complete the minor update of my own XEP yet.
jonas’I wonder if it's possible to tackle both at the same time?
Ge0rGIt's been long enough that I need to read up my own comments on-list anyway.
jonas’alternatively, we could agree that the rules as is work good enough and additional improvements should focus on fleshing out IM-NG.✎
jonas’alternatively, we could agree that the rules as is work well enough and additional improvements should focus on fleshing out IM-NG. ✏
dwdIt seems to me that our inability to get '280 and '313 over the line is just silly, at this point.
dwdI mean, virtually everyone uses them just fine, whether or not the rules are perfect.
jonas’I mean at the same time it points at the fundamental issue that message routing is hard
jonas’especially in a system which has grown historically over 20 years
ZashSo, declare the rules to be out of scope, move on with life?
jonas’which is why I think that we should keep the things as is as Stable and head toward IM-NG
ZashAnd figure out routing (including copying and archiving) rules elsewhere
dwdI think IM-NG will be a useful sponge to soak up this energy, but yes.