XMPP Council - 2021-10-06

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  77. Ge0rG

    Minor reminder that I got a conflicting appointment today.

  78. jonas’


  79. jonas’

    1) Roll Call

  80. jonas’ .

  81. Zash


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  84. jonas’

    do we get a dwd and or a daniel?

  85. Ge0rG

    I'm semi-here. Might be able to cast votes if there is not too much to discuss.

  86. daniel


  87. dwd

    We have a dwd!

  88. jonas’

    2) Agenda Bashing

  89. jonas’

    it was a late agenda again

  90. jonas’

    (turns out, IKEA assembly can be very captivating)

  91. jonas’

    3) Editor's Update

  92. jonas’

    - LCs started: XEP-0379, XEP-0401, XEP-0445

  93. jonas’

    4) Items for Voting

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  95. jonas’

    We got a request to consider the deprecation of '411

  96. jonas’

    4a) Deprecate XEP-0411 URL: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1111

  97. jonas’

    I think that sends the wrong signal

  98. jonas’

    but maybe that's just my strange PoV?

  99. Zash

    I think that ought to be discussed on the list a bit

  100. jonas’

    I think deprecation of a compat mechanism should only happen once the main thing is obsoleted.

  101. Ge0rG praises the Editor

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  104. jonas’

    Zash, also valid

  105. jonas’

    any other opinions on this one?

  106. Ge0rG

    I agree with jonas’ on that.

  107. Ge0rG

    Also compat mechanisms often survive very long.

  108. daniel

    > Bookmarks 2 defines its own conversion mechanism but the adoption of Bookmarks 2 - at the time of writing this XEP - is questionable. This hasn't really changed...

  109. jonas’

    Ge0rG, well, that they *survive* for long is no reason not to deprecate them

  110. dwd

    I, too, agree with jonas’ - a compat mechanism isn't deprecated just because the thing it's enabling compatibility with is deprecated. It exists *because* the old bookmarks was deprecated, in a lot of ways.

  111. daniel

    I mean I also would like bookmarks 2 to be more of a thing. I'm not sure depreciating the conversion xep is a good way to achieve that

  112. jonas’

    note that '411 converts between private XML and the single-node PEP storage, not between private XML and bookmarks 2.0

  113. jonas’

    note that '411 converts between private XML and the single-node PEP storage, not between private XML and bookmarks 2.0 (a.k.a. '402)

  114. Ge0rG

    somebody should draw a conversion flowchart.

  115. Zash

    Observation: '0411 is mentioned in the compliance suite

  116. jonas’

    okay, uh

  117. jonas’

    with the realization that '411 is actually converting between two different formats of '48

  118. jonas’

    I think that it actually makes sense to deprecate it

  119. jonas’

    with just the rationale that '48 is deprecated

  120. Zash

    I looked at the bookmarks (2) situation a few weeks ago and uh, it _would_ be nice if something could be pushed forward there.

  121. jonas’

    what point is there to have '411 when '48 is deprecated, given that '411 has no interaction with anything except '48?

  122. jonas’

    '411 has absolutely nothing to do with '405 (bookmarks 2)

  123. jonas’

    I am +1 on deprecation.

  124. Zash

    ITYM xep-0402

  125. jonas’

    yes, sorry

  126. jonas’


  127. dwd

    Hmmm. So yes, I had it in my head it converted to bookmarks2.

  128. jonas’

    (although it indeed also has nothing to do with '405 ;))

  129. Ge0rG

    XEP-0402 has undefined status "Draft"

  130. jonas’


  131. jonas’

    oh :)

  132. jonas’

    there's a bug there, thanks

  133. jonas’

    (rendering bug)

  134. dwd

    So... I'm likely to vote +1 to deprecate I think, but it would be nice to run this past the list.

  135. jonas’

    anyway, does anyone else want to cast votes on the '411 deprecation now?

  136. jonas’


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  138. jonas’

    okay, two voices for running it past the list

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  140. Ge0rG

    I'm on-list pending list discussion

  141. jonas’

    let's do the list thing then

  142. jonas’

    5) Pending Votes

  143. Zash

    Compliance Suite votes?

  144. jonas’

    There has been more late LC feedback on '459

  145. jonas’

    yes, only I'm missing

  146. jonas’

    I think I'd like to see that incorporated before advancement

  147. Ge0rG

    some of my feedback got strong counter-arguments

  148. Zash

    I think it's a bit weird to have all the changes go in an LC feedback updates

  149. jonas’

    Zash, my point being that any future change would be gated by Council

  150. jonas’

    and I don't think that's beneficial for anyone involved

  151. jonas’

    do you folks thinks that advancing while there's still open discussions is good in the case of '459?

  152. Zash

    I'm not opposed to extending while waiting for discussions to settle down

  153. jonas’

    okay, I'd be more comfortable with that

  154. Zash

    Altho, it's been quiet for almost a week aready

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  156. jonas’

    in that case stuff should be integrated in my opinon

  157. jonas’

    before we advance

  158. Ge0rG

    Did anybody hear from the author?

  159. jonas’

    not yet

  160. jonas’

    I'm gonna poke them

  161. Zash

    please do

  162. jonas’

    let's extend the voting period by +1w on this one, and I'll poke the list and the author

  163. Zash


  164. jonas’

    speaking on +1w

  165. Ge0rG

    jonas’: great!

  166. jonas’

    6) Date of Next

  167. jonas’

    +1w wfm

  168. daniel

    +1w wfm

  169. Ge0rG

    +1W LGTM

  170. Zash


  171. jonas’

    dwd, still here?

  172. dwd

    I am.

  173. dwd

    And +1W WFM. :-)

  174. jonas’


  175. jonas’

    7) AOB

  176. jonas’

    anyone got anything?

  177. Zash

    too close to dinner time to have anything

  178. jonas’


  179. jonas’


  180. jonas’

    8) Ite Meeting Est

  181. jonas’

    thanks everyone

  182. Zash

    Thanks jonas’, thanks everyone

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